Joe Biden Beats Barack Obama's Popular Vote Record

[Bogie]

Yang practically is a celebrity candidate at this point, I think he basically is the liberal version of the Trump-Republican playbook.

Either way, this election shows what the Democrats are doing isn't working or reaching enough voters. They need a very unconventional candidate in 2024, and I can't think of one better than Yang.

Yang is probably still going to be ahead of his time, even 4 years from now.

there always has to be a first, and he is it. I agree the idea of ubi and healthcare for all will ultimately have to be adopted if America wants to stop the devolution into modern feudalism.

but the ideas are going to have mountains to overcome, not sure if 4 years is enough time.

[Will Hunting]

IMO where the polls are clearly getting it wrong is with 1) rural voters and 2) "undecided" voters. People who say they're undecided voters are lying 95% of the time. The pollsters need to get creative in figuring out how to weigh this - imo one way to do that is prod with more general questions (i.e., if an undecided voter says he's better off now than he was 4 years ago and thinks the Hunter Biden laptop story is a major issue, probably just assume he's voting Republican up and down the ballot).

[JamStone]

Voter turnout completed related to the polarizing response by voters to Trump. Biden obviously not more popular than Barack. But it’s extremely rare not to have an opinion of Trump. You either love him or hate him. And that led all these people to vote, for or against him. I voted for Biden only to vote against Trump. Has nothing to do with policy or political issues. I hate the fact that this country has been led by this piece of the last four years. I need him to be gone.

Regardless of any good things Trump did, and even his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things, they’ve all been completely eclipsed by how much of an egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, racist, sexist, overall bigoted jackass he’s been who not only ed up this covid response but set the stage up for an all out racial civil war with his stupid ing call to arms tweets and comments stoking the flames of that racial divide. He’s made it ok to be unapologetically and even openly racist. He ing destroyed simple common decency in this country. And the fact that he still got as many votes as he did is an absolutely scary thing to realize.

[boutons_deux]

"his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things"

let's see you list of things

[JamStone]

"his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things"

let's see you list of things

Look I’m anti-Trump. And I realize Trump haters don’t want to credit him with anything. And anything he did that could be viewed as even remotely good can be spun in a way to either not give him credit at all or as a self-serving thing that also turned out good. So whatever I list I’m sure will be challenged. And I’m not saying there’s a lot.

But just a few, his criminal justice reform, initiating Space Force, lowering unemployment, pressuring NATO allies to cough up their share of money, and getting Abu Baker al-Baghdadi.

You can spin those things if you want. That’s fine. I’m not in business to defend Trump. So go ahead. And again, all the bad things about Trump overshadows anything good anyway.

[ElNono]

this election was an epic fail for Democrats, don’t sugarcoat it with stupid numbers about the popular vote.

If not for COVID Trump wins in a landslide and the Republicans take the house back. The Democratic Party needs an enema.

Yep, heck, I could see Perez might be spared now if Biden rings, which would be a colossal mistake.

[Will Hunting]

Yep, heck, I could see Perez might be spared now if Biden rings, which would be a colossal mistake.

The problem isn’t just Perez but he’d be a great start. Democratic leaders don’t understand how state and local elections are won. Raising money and running TV ads is one element but if you want to flip a senate seat in Iowa or North Carolina you need a candidate visiting the rural counties and doing voter townhalls.

[ElNono]

The problem isn’t just Perez but he’d be a great start. Democratic leaders don’t understand how state and local elections are won. Raising money and running TV ads is one element but if you want to flip a senate seat in Iowa or North Carolina you need a candidate visiting the rural counties and doing voter townhalls.

Agreed, but Perez' head is the signal that this is serious, and it starts at the top.

[SnakeBoy]

Looks like Trump is going to beat Obama's popular vote count too

[koriwhat]

voter fraud at its finest... lol joe had a bigger base than obama at his height? lmao yall are so damn gullible.

[ElNono]

No surprises here, you let Americans vote comfortably, and they do vote.

[Will Hunting]

No surprises here, you let Americans vote comfortably, and they do vote.

Possibly but I’m more convinced this is Trump driving turnout from those who love him and those who hate him.

[RandomGuy]

Voter turnout completed related to the polarizing response by voters to Trump. Biden obviously not more popular than Barack. But it’s extremely rare not to have an opinion of Trump. You either love him or hate him. And that led all these people to vote, for or against him. I voted for Biden only to vote against Trump. Has nothing to do with policy or political issues. I hate the fact that this country has been led by this piece of the last four years. I need him to be gone.

Regardless of any good things Trump did, and even his harshest critics can acknowledge there were some good policy things, they’ve all been completely eclipsed by how much of an egomaniacal, megalomaniacal, racist, sexist, overall bigoted jackass he’s been who not only ed up this covid response but set the stage up for an all out racial civil war with his stupid ing call to arms tweets and comments stoking the flames of that racial divide. He’s made it ok to be unapologetically and even openly racist. He ing destroyed simple common decency in this country. And the fact that he still got as many votes as he did is an absolutely scary thing to realize.

Harshest critic here:

Good trump policy things:
China tariffs.
Space Force.

We need to do something to contain China.

The number of votes he got speaks to the effectiveness of right wing propaganda. Fear is easy and hard to shake.

[RandomGuy]

Looks like Trump is going to beat Obama's popular vote count too

Indeed.

May be about the only thing he has ever done more/better than Obama. Ironic.

[ElNono]

Possibly but I’m more convinced this is Trump driving turnout from those who love him and those who hate him.

No doubt. But there's also a lot less excuses to voters over when you have a pandemic going on.

[DMC]

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

[DMC]

Harshest critic here:

Good trump policy things:
China tariffs.
Space Force.

We need to do something to contain China.

The number of votes he got speaks to the effectiveness of right wing propaganda. Fear is easy and hard to shake.

So left wing talking points aren't propaganda. Those are just facts. The right though, that's all propaganda and half the voters are stupid.

[Dirks_Finale]

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

I no longer trust polling, period. But I think the Trafalgar group's critique of modern day polling is pretty accurate. This is not 1995. No more, or very little landline calls. And you have to keep it short and sweet. The only people talking to you for 20-30 minutes about politics are the extremists from either side, which does not give you the pulse of the common Joe. And if there's a polarizing guy like Trump on the ballot, you have to somehow assure them of anonymity, thanks to cancel culture.

[RandomGuy]

I no longer trust polling, period.

You and me both man. whiffing two elections in a row.. .somethings wrong, and I doubt anyone can fix it.

[DMX7]

voter fraud at its finest... lol joe had a bigger base than obama at his height? lmao yall are so damn gullible.

Well the population has grown and more eligible and registered voters are on the rolls. Plus a lot of people vote against Trump and not necessarily for Biden.

[ElNono]

The problem with the polls is that you cannot predict what people will do given free choice. If you could, we wouldn't need an election.

I still want somebody, anybody to point out how polls were incorrect this year, at least on the presidential race? Maybe NC being the outlier?

Polls don't exist to replace the vote. They exist to try to get a sense of where races are going.

[ElNono]

I no longer trust polling, period. But I think the Trafalgar group's critique of modern day polling is pretty accurate. This is not 1995. No more, or very little landline calls. And you have to keep it short and sweet. The only people talking to you for 20-30 minutes about politics are the extremists from either side, which does not give you the pulse of the common Joe. And if there's a polarizing guy like Trump on the ballot, you have to somehow assure them of anonymity, thanks to cancel culture.

Trafalgar group was extremely wrong in their polls this and last time around. As a matter of fact, their junk polls appear to be directly aimed at undermining good polling.

[Will Hunting]

I still want somebody, anybody to point out how polls were incorrect this year, at least on the presidential race? Maybe NC being the outlier?

Polls don't exist to replace the vote. They exist to try to get a sense of where races are going.

The congressional district polls were laughably off. They showed the Democrats running compe ively in like 10 Texas house races and the went 0-10 with most of them not even close.

One dynamic I don’t think people or pollsters considered - Trump brought out low propensity GOP voters who didn’t turn out in 2018, while having Trump on the ballot allowed never Trump Republicans to take their anger out on Trump but still vote Republican down ballot. It was the worst of both worlds for down ballot Dem candidates.

[ElNono]

The congressional district polls were laughably off. They showed the Democrats running compe ively in like 10 Texas house races and the went 0-10 with most of them not even close.

One dynamic I don’t think people or pollsters considered - Trump brought out low propensity GOP voters who didn’t turn out in 2018, while having Trump on the ballot allowed never Trump Republicans to take their anger out on Trump but still vote Republican down ballot. It was the worst of both worlds for down ballot Dem candidates.

That's fair, I think Spurminator brought it up before, and like I told him, I didn't particularly track those polls, so I'll take your word for it.

However, so far at least, the POTUS race has been called fairly spot on? I posted what the A/A+ polls map looked like before the count started, I don't see any egregious errors or mistakes?

[Will Hunting]

That's fair, I think Spurminator brought it up before, and like I told him, I didn't particularly track those polls, so I'll take your word for it.

However, so far at least, the POTUS race has been called fairly spot on? I posted what the A/A+ polls map looked like before the count started, I don't see any egregious errors or mistakes?

I think florida was an error. Wisconsin also might have accurately predicted the winner but the polls were still way off. They had Biden up 8-9% and he won by <1%.