So who's now considered the 2nd worst president ever?

[monosylab1k]

Warren G Harding or Bush Jr imo

[baseline bum]

I'll always hate Wilson for flooding Hetch Hetchy for San Francisco. Not sure that would rise to putting him second worst though. Probably would put Andrew Johnson in that spot.

[Will Hunting]

Obama's final 2-3 years were good for job growth, admittedly, though the salaries soared around 2018 for tech jobs compared to before. Obama's first term was terrible economically. Recession didn't officially end until early 2013

Now you're changing the subject away from your re ed claim that Trump had job growth we haven't seen in decades.

The final two years of Obama's first term had great job growth, but I've come to expect MAGA s to blame Obama for inheriting an abortion from a Republican president (the same way Biden is inheriting an abortion from Trump).

Salaries also did not soar in 2018, you're making more stupid up. Median household income from 2017 to 2018 grew by 2.7%. Compared to most Republican presidents that's not bad but it's ing terrible compared to Democrats. It's pretty undisputable which political party creates better income growth. These are numbers from your re ed twin Derp so if you hate them take it up with him.

[leemajors]

Hoover

This, Hoover was awful

[Robz4000]

how the does anyone rank FDR as our worst president? If anything he was the best president this country ever had.

[baseline bum]

how the does anyone rank FDR as our worst president? If anything he was the best president this country ever had.

TDS

[RandomGuy]

I'll go with Pierce because of his politics regarding slavery during his time

Some old dead white guy.

I win.

[Robz4000]

As for worst its prolly Garfield, Buchanan, or some other president from the late 1800s.

[RandomGuy]

how the does anyone rank FDR as our worst president? If anything he was the best president this country ever had.

FDR created Social Security.

Right-wing nutjobs view that as the single worst thing that has ever happened to the US.

Evil socialism booga booga booga.

[Splits]

[Millennial_Messiah]

FDR created Social Security.

Right-wing nutjobs view that as the single worst thing that has ever happened to the US.

Evil socialism booga booga booga.

Wilson created the IRS/federal income taxes which is worse

[Will Hunting]

I get why MAGA s worship him, but why do Democrats not rank Reagan as one of the worst presidents ever? He dismantled the new deal and radically shifted the overton window in this country to the right. We don't get GWB or Trump without Reagan first. He was just as racist as Trump was, he just said it more subtly, and he made up facts just as often as Trump does. If all the things people blame for 40 years of rapidly increasing wealth inequality, Reagan's tax cuts and dismantling of new deal programs clearly aligns with when that started.

We had a golden age that basically lasted from FDR through Nixon, but outside of that our presidents have been oligarch shills with rare exception. The rampant executive and judicial corruption in the early 20th century largely goes unnoticed. Go look up some supreme court rulings from the Lochner Era if you think today's supreme court is the most corrupt we've ever had.

[Millennial_Messiah]

Now you're changing the subject away from your re ed claim that Trump had job growth we haven't seen in decades.

The final two years of Obama's first term had great job growth, but I've come to expect MAGA s to blame Obama for inheriting an abortion from a Republican president (the same way Biden is inheriting an abortion from Trump).

Salaries also did not soar in 2018, you're making more stupid up. Median household income from 2017 to 2018 grew by 2.7%. Compared to most Republican presidents that's not bad but it's ing terrible compared to Democrats. It's pretty undisputable which political party creates better income growth. These are numbers from your re ed twin Derp so if you hate them take it up with him.

the graph is inherently biased... lol at $2K increments on the left hand column. The actual difference is negligible, but Obama raising taxes (by not extending the Bush II tax cuts) and the Trump tax bill, which is a mixed bag albeit, made up those marginal differences in a hurry.

[Millennial_Messiah]

We had a golden age that basically lasted from FDR through Nixon, but outside of that our presidents have been oligarch shills with rare exception. The rampant executive and judicial corruption in the early 20th century largely goes unnoticed. Go look up some supreme court rulings from the Lochner Era if you think today's supreme court is the most corrupt we've ever had.

You mean Truman through Nixon. FDR was dead by the time Truman dropped the bomb and henceforth the era of good feelings began. Truman and Ike were good presidents. Vietnam was a stain on that era and it was LBJ's fault. Kennedy nor Nixon would have entered Vietnam.

The 1930s were DEFINITELY not a golden age, lmao. FDR turned Hoover's recession into The Great Depression. As for the first half of the 1940s, it only resulted in tens of millions of young American men dying brutal deaths, tbh...

[Will Hunting]

the graph is inherently biased... lol at $2K increments on the left hand column. The actual difference is negligible, but Obama raising taxes (by not extending the Bush II tax cuts) and the Trump tax bill, which is a mixed bag albeit, made up those marginal differences in a hurry.

"marginal differences". Republicans had wages decline, Democrats had wages increase.

Obama raising taxes is what led to increased wages. Trump's tax bill is what led to stagnating job growth in 2018 and 2019. What your saying has absolutely no empirical support.

[Spurminator]

In my lifetime I'd still rank Reagan worse. The War on Drugs and the disproportionate focus on crack usage set in motion a prison industrial complex that impacted the poor and minorities in a way this country may never recover from.

The invention of the Trickle Down Economics hoax. The merger of evangelicals and Republicans. Iran Contra, the EPA scandal, HUD rigging, some of the most extreme Cold War fearmongering we ever saw.

Even if you give him credit for the fall of the USSR, the rest of the mess he made has had far greater long term impact.

[TimDunkem]

Andrew Johnson or any of the turds before Lincoln. The stagnation of race relations and Jim Crow owes a lot to AJ.

[Spurminator]

I get why MAGA s worship him, but why do Democrats not rank Reagan as one of the worst presidents ever? He dismantled the new deal and radically shifted the overton window in this country to the right. We don't get GWB or Trump without Reagan first. He was just as racist as Trump was, he just said it more subtly, and he made up facts just as often as Trump does. If all the things people blame for 40 years of rapidly increasing wealth inequality, Reagan's tax cuts and dismantling of new deal programs clearly aligns with when that started.

We had a golden age that basically lasted from FDR through Nixon, but outside of that our presidents have been oligarch shills with rare exception. The rampant executive and judicial corruption in the early 20th century largely goes unnoticed. Go look up some supreme court rulings from the Lochner Era if you think today's supreme court is the most corrupt we've ever had.

You beat me to it and did a better job.

[Millennial_Messiah]

"marginal differences". Republicans had wages decline, Democrats had wages increase.

Obama raising taxes is what led to increased wages. Trump's tax bill is what led to stagnating job growth in 2018 and 2019. What your saying has absolutely no empirical support.

wages don't mean if you have pay more of it to the IRS than you gained with the increase of a few bucks per hour.

Personal income taxes should be very low, and should definitely not go up for anyone making under a million a year... Corporations and mega billionaires on the other hand can go to . They should be taxed like crazy.

[Will Hunting]

You mean Truman through Nixon. FDR was dead by the time Truman dropped the bomb and henceforth the era of good feelings began. Truman and Ike were good presidents.

The 1930s were DEFINITELY not a golden age, lmao. FDR turned Hoover's recession into The Great Depression. As for the first half of the 1940s, it only resulted in tens of millions of young American men dying brutal deaths, tbh...

Back up some of this stupidity. What did FDR do to make the great depression worse? It's laughable revisionist history to claim the Great Depression didn't start until 1932.

To be fair to Hoover, the depression started on his watch, but it was caused by the reckless Laissez-faire economic policy of Harding and Coolidge. Hoover was another free market re who wanted to continue their policy, but the damage was done by the time he was president. Of course Hoover handled the depression about as badly as humanly possible until the 1930 midterm elections when Democrats cleaned up.

[spurraider21]

In my lifetime I'd still rank Reagan worse. The War on Drugs and the disproportionate focus on crack usage set in motion a prison industrial complex that impacted the poor and minorities in a way this country may never recover from.

The invention of the Trickle Down Economics hoax. The merger of evangelicals and Republicans. Iran Contra, the EPA scandal, HUD rigging, some of the most extreme Cold War fearmongering we ever saw.

Even if you give him credit for the fall of the USSR, the rest of the mess he made has had far greater long term impact.

as you've noted, many of those harms continue to be felt today, some have even gotten worse

remains to be seen how trump's anti-democratic stance will impact the future. potentially much more dangerous imo

[Millennial_Messiah]

In my lifetime I'd still rank Reagan worse. The War on Drugs

That, and the start of forming alliances with jihadis because we were so scared of russians

[Millennial_Messiah]

Back up some of this stupidity. What did FDR do to make the great depression worse? It's laughable revisionist history to claim the Great Depression didn't start until 1932.

To be fair to Hoover, the depression started on his watch, but it was caused by the reckless Laissez-faire economic policy of Harding and Coolidge. Hoover was another free market re who wanted to continue their policy, but the damage was done by the time he was president. Of course Hoover handled the depression about as badly as humanly possible until the 1930 midterm elections when Democrats cleaned up.

The Roaring Twenties were bound to end at some point, and it all crashed at the end, in Hoover's regime, but lol at the Dems "cleaning up" in 1930 when the great depression trucked on until WWII. FDR didn't do about it. The wartime production era got us out of it, but at a gargantuan human toll.

[Spurminator]

as you've noted, many of those harms continue to be felt today, some have even gotten worse

remains to be seen how trump's anti-democratic stance will impact the future. potentially much more dangerous imo

Very true. That said, I don't know if I'd put all of that on Trump, that seemed to be a trend with conservatives that he just escalated because of his exposure to radical right wing groupthink.

[Will Hunting]

The Roaring Twenties were bound to end at some point, and it all crashed at the end, in Hoover's regime, but lol at the Dems "cleaning up" in 1930 when the great depression trucked on until WWII. FDR didn't do about it. The wartime production era got us out of it, but at a gargantuan human toll.

The Dems picked up 8 senate seats and 52 house seats in 1930. If that's not cleaning up I'm not sure what is.

You still haven't backed up anything you've said with numbers. FDR ed up by beginning to cut spending too early in 1937. From 1932 to 1937, the unemployment rate went from 23.6% to 14%. If that's your criticism of FDR, that his new deal wasn't liberal enough and didn't spend enough, fine with me. That doesn't really do anything to help your conservative values.