We're Not Done Yet!

[Bandit2981]

, why dont we just cancel the whole ing season right now? its obvious no one can even compete with the lakers' addition of a 35 and 40 year old, our 2 time MVP and champ is no match for that. lets just end it all already, give them the damn rings, and show re-runs of the whole 3-peat over again and avoid embarrasing every other team and player in the league for even trying to interfere with destiny

[Ghost Writer]

That's fine, Archie. I argued against getting Mourning with timvp just two weeks ago, but now I am obviously open to any and all options.

PJ Brown's statements make him seem interested in coming to the Spurs and ESPN Insider states that Nesterovic loves San Antonio.

I question Nesterovic's defense, but he can draw Shaq out of the paint with his offensive skills.

I've never been a big Bowen backer. Yes, he does an excellent job defending Kobe, but Brynat has always been able to score when he's needed to. I'm ready to start Jackson at the SF and Ginobili at the SG so we can try and outscore the Lakers perimeter players instead of trying to stop the unstoppable.

Dopes like scott think we can match the Lakers moves by giving up nothing.

We can compete with the Lakers, but we can't be scurrred anymore.

[Bandit2981]

I'm ready to start Jackson at the SF and Ginobili at the SG so we can try and outscore the Lakers perimeter players instead of trying to stop the unstoppable.

umm, sorry but he don nelson strategy wont win you championships

[kohai]

Bowen's defense on Kobe is overrated.

This may be your worst take ever, and that's saying a LOT.

Bowen vs Kobe 35pts 31 shots 0 assists

Jax vs Kobe 35pts 20 shots 10 assists - Laker role players go crazy.

Bowen makes Kobe a selfish player by making him work for his points, and fixate on the rim instead of his teammates.

[scott]

Let's see what Bowen's overrated defense did against Kobe in the playoffs...

Game 1: 37 points, 16-38 (42.1%) FG, 2 Ast, 4 Reb, 5 TO

I have a feeling Bowen's 2 blocks and 1 steal also played a role in that stat line.

Game 2: 27 Points, 9-24 (37.5%) FG, 1 Ast, 6 Reb, 5 TO

Game 3: 39 points, 10-23 (43.5%) FG, 17-19 FT, 4 Ast, 4 Reb, 4 TO

Game 4: 35 points, 10-24 (41.7%) FG, 14-17 FT, 3 Ast, 7 Reb, 2 TO

Game 5: 36 points, 15-31 (48.4%) FG, 6 Ast, 7 Reb, 4 TO

Game 6: 20 Points, 9-19 (47.4%) FG, 6 Ast, 2 Reb, 7 TO

Kobe put those numbers up against an All-NBA Second Team Defender- and the national media was applauding Bowen for his defense on Kobe.

I wonder how Jackson, who was benched several times in the playoffs because of his poor defense, would do.

If you think we'd be okay with Jackson's ole defense guarding Kobe, you are a bigger balla homer than we thought.

[kohai]

I'll say it flat out: I don't care who we sign, Jermaine O'Neal, 'Zo, whoever. If we don't have Bowen, we don't beat the Lakers, period.

[Whottt]

Give it up Scott..these guys don't remember that far back.

They don't remember Kobe being a one man wrecking crew in every phase of the game against us before Bowen arrived.

[Ghost Writer]

khoai, where did you get the line for Jackson guading Kobe?


Wow, scott, am I impressed. Bowen "held" Bryant to 28 PPG on 43% shooting and an average of 6 TOs as the primary ballhandler for the Lakers.

Remarkable job of shutting down Bryant by Bowen.


Bowen's defense on Kobe is overrated by you Spurs homers.

When will you people realize that trying to stop Kobe or Shaq is impossible?

You're better off trying to stop the Lakers other player, which the Spur sdid this past playoffs and were successful with.

Bowen was here in 2001-02 and his defense didn't stop Kobe and the spurs didn't win.

The difference this year was that no one else stepped up for the Lakers.


Get that through your heads.


You guys cans tick to this clusterfvck:

PF Duncan
SF Bowen
C Rose
PG Kidd
SG Parker

SG Ginobili
SG Jackson
C Willis
PG Kerr

I'll take my chances against LA with:

PF Duncan
SF Jackson
C Mourning/Brown/Nesterovic
PG Kidd
SG Ginobili

PF Rose
C Willis
PG Kerr


You have to give to get, people. This is Bruce Bowen, we're talking baout — not Jamal Mashburn or Paul Pierce for krissakes. The Nets probably wouldn't even want Bowen in a sign-and-trade if they weren't getting Parker, too.

[scott]

If we are talking ideas about what to do if (when) we sign Kidd- I'm all for it. But I only want to hear ideas that make us better.

PG: Kidd
SG: Manu
SF: Jackson
PF: Duncan
C : Mourning

Bench: Rose, Kerr, ?

gives us no better chance at beating the Lakers than:

PG: Parker
SG: Jackson
SF: Bowen
PF: Duncan
C : Mourning

Bench: Rose, Manu, Kerr, ?

And the first line up sacrifices cap room for 6 years.

If we are going to pay the marginal costs of aquiring players, it damned well better make us a better team than the most obvious alternative.

[scott]

Wow, scott, am I impressed. Bowen "held" Bryant to 28 PPG on 43% shooting and an average of 6 TOs as the primary ballhandler for the Lakers.

Remarkable job of shutting down Bryant by Bowen.


Bowen's defense on Kobe is overrated by you Spurs homers.

When will you people realize that trying to stop Kobe or Shaq is impossible?

You're better off trying to stop the Lakers other player, which the Spur sdid this past playoffs and were successful with.

You are right Ghost... what was I thinking- we are much better off letting Kobe average 45 points on as many shots. What was I thinking!?!?!?

[spurster]

In the last 3 years, Mourning has played 13, 75, and 0 games. His ailment is not a basketball injury that the trainers can work on. To me, that makes him a last resort.

Bowen is not overrated. The Spurs beat the Lakers because they avoided doubling Kobe and Shaq. If other teams could avoid doubling Duncan and keep him to his usual stats, that would go a long ways toward beating the Spurs. But Manu and SJax did almost as well on Kobe.

Trading Parker and Bowen? Then you have lost 3 starters from your championship team. Because the Spurs probably lose Claxton, too, that becomes 4 players out of the 8-man rotation. Not a bad idea if you are that desperate.

[Ghost Writer]

Wrong.

Kidd's superstar status trumps anything Bowen and Parker could give that second scenario.

Suppose Bowen "holds" Kobe to his typical 28 PPG and scores his typical 10 PPG. I would think Jackson could relinquish 35 PPG, yet score about 15 PPG. Plus he could make Kobe work on the other end. Moreover, Popovich might elect Ginobili to guard Bryant.

The point is that there's no way Kobe will score 45 PPG, scott. Who are the defensive stoppers that the other playoff teams have thrown at Kobe? He's never broke 40 PPG.

And do you really expect Kobe to score over 30 PPG sharing the ball with Shaq, Malone and Payton?

You still are ignoring my point that Bowen on Kobe only worked this season when the Spurs finally figured out the key is stopping the other Lakers. Address my fact-based logic for once, coward.

You stand pat and I'll take my chances with Kidd and a center, even if it means trading the almighty Parker and Master Bruce.

P.S.

Please also include Brown and Nesterovic in your center projections.

[scott]

You still are ignoring my point that Bowen on Kobe only worked this season when the Spurs finally figured out the key is stopping the other Lakers. Address my fact-based logic for once, coward.

The reason the Spurs were able to figure out how to stop the other Lakers is BECAUSE they didn't have to worry about Shaq or Kobe. When we have Zo guarding Shaq and Jackson guarding Kobe, we no longer are able to concentrate on stopping the other players. Shaq will require double teams, as will Kobe. That leaves the newly aquired Karl Malone and Gary Payton open to murder us.

Do you even watch basketball, or are you just a fan of team jackets?

[NCaliSpurs]

Sean Elliot missed a lot of games because of his knee and the number of years in the league caught up with him. His illness really didn't side-line him his last year.

Zo' may be a risk, but if his kidnieys can hold up, then he will be a force inside.

[Whottt]

Arrgh it's driving me mad....

What does Kidd do to key the break 75% of the time? Does he run the ball down there himself?

Noooooooooooooooo

He outlets to a sprinting teamate...

Who do you think is going to be able to win that sprint more often than not?

Tony Parker?

Or anyone else in the NBA?


What is the greater talent? Throwing the ball to the guy down there? Or being the guy who can get down there quicker than any team in the NBA?

Anyway..you're gonna be in for a rude awakening if you try to run on Dallas or Sac so I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket if I were you.


And holding Kobe top 28ppg on 43% shooting is a total shutdown performance compared to what Elliot and Daniels did against him a few years ago where he averaged about 35ppg on 50% shooting to go with his 8 or 9 rebounds per game.


I give up...

[scott]

Kidd's superstar status trumps anything Bowen and Parker could give that second scenario.

I can see it now. The refs will stop the game and tell Kobe he isn't allowed to score 40 on us because we have a second superstar on our team now.

Sorry Kobe, you got trumped!

[Ghost Writer]

scott, when has Kobe ever averaged 40 PPG in a playoff series?

Why didn't the Spurs win with Bowen here the playoffs before last?

Is it forseeable that Kobe will score less with Payton and Malone on board?

Could Jackson/Ginobili's offense equate to Bowen's defense on Kobe?

How do you propose we get Kidd and a center?

Are you a fvcking @ssh0le or do you just play one in Fan Forums?


Questions.

[Whottt]

We may have lost with Bowen last year but we also weren't swept and blown out by 20ppg.

We had a double digit lead against them in every game going into the 4th.

Bown impacted Kobe's ability to take over a game. Kobe wasn't a wrecking crew on offensive glass and rebounds and the like once we got Bowen. And he needed more shots to get his points.

[Ghost Writer]

Whott, Bowen can't stop Kobe. No one can. The differnce was that our supporting cast outperformed their supporting cast this time around.

Kobe never averaged 35+ PPG with anyone guarding him before in the playoffs, so I doubt that would start now, especially with him sharing the ball with Malone and Payton.

Bowen "held" Kobe to 28 PPD. Pop forbid we yeild 30 PPG with Jack/Ginobili, yet score an extra 5 PPG with either of them on offense.



scott, when has Kobe ever averaged 40 PPG in a playoff series?

Why didn't the Spurs win with Bowen here the playoffs before last?

Is it forseeable that Kobe will score less with Payton and Malone on board?

Could Jackson/Ginobili's offense equate to Bowen's defense on Kobe?

How do you propose we get Kidd and a center?

Are you a fvcking @ssh0le or do you just play one in Fan Forums?


Questions.

[Archie]

Depending on who's available as far as bigmen go I don't exactly see the need to run Bowen and Parker out. You would have just added Kidd to this team and you have $3.8 million in cap room to help you find a starting big. , everyone thinks that Malone is going to LA but maybe he decides that he could have more of an impact in SA? He's not my first choice but the Spurs have been in touch with him since the start of free agency.

[scott]

scott, when has Kobe ever averaged 40 PPG in a playoff series?

When has Kobe ever had a Stephen Jackson guarding him for an entire game? The answer is never, because there isn't an NBA coach stupid enough to do this. When teams have an inferior defender on Kobe, they resort to doubling him. This is exactly what the Spurs would have to do. This of course leaves other players open to kill the Spurs, which exactly what you propose we stop. When you leave Kobe to go one-on-one against Stephen Jackson all game, you are just begging him to post a career playoff series on you.

Why didn't the Spurs win with Bowen here the playoffs before last?

Simply put, because the Spurs weren't good enough. Steve Smith was our starting shooting guard, and he decided to spend the playoffs somewhere else. David Robinson was probably in the worst physical condition of his career that season, and guys like Terry Porter and Danny Ferry were significant bench players.

Is it forseeable that Kobe will score less with Payton and Malone on board?

Right up until Kobe sees that he has Stephen Jackson guarding him one-on-one every play.

Could Jackson/Ginobili's offense equate to Bowen's defense on Kobe?

When Kobe was on Parker last season (and Parker was having nice performances vs. LA, one of the few Spurs outside of Duncan who had a nice playoffs in 01-02), it didn't slow Kobe down. It was still Bowen's hassling Kobe doing all the work. Jackson is best when spotting up and moving without the ball- something that is more about finesse than athleticism. Defending this isn't going to expend as much of Kobe's energy as you think. If you've ever seen Kobe struggle against Bowen (which is questionable given some of your assinine comments), you'd know that Bowen makes him work extremely hard- much harder than anyone will make him work on the other end of the floor.

How do you propose we get Kidd and a center?

I don't know... we could just sign one with the money that we already have available. Zo, PJ Brown, etc. What is the extra 4.5 million going to get us? Kandi, Rasho, BMiller? Are those guys a big upgrade over Zo or PJ? Enough of an upgrade that you are willing to give up your best man-to-man defender?

Are you a fvcking @ssh0le or do you just play one in Fan Forums?

I'm actually quite amiable when not faced with a constant barrage of stupidity. Its no coincidence that you don't often see that side of me.

[kohai]

With Tower Power in 2001, but no one to stay in front of Kobe, we got blown out in every game.

With effectively NO center in 2002 (limited David for only 2 games) the Spurs were in EVERY game, and really only needed some one to hit a ING SHOT to take out the Lakers in 2002.

In 2003, with David on board, but still somewhat limited, the Spurs take out the Lakers. The emergence of Jack and Manu, along with the vet presence of Kerr, put them over the top.

David's totals for the series:
6 games 126 mintues 35 points 34 rebs 3 stl 4 blk

Bowen was the big difference between the horror of 2001 and the compe ive series of 2002/ the takeout of 2003.

[bigzak25]

Guys guys guys...

i too don't want JK here, but the decison has to be made to acquire the best talent this year or hold pat and see what's up next year.

obviously, the FO is pushing for JK. but i'm not gonna go into pouting mode and do something STUPID like trade tony parker and bruce bowen for an AVERAGE bigman. I'll take my chances with malik and willis if that's the case.

If JK comes, we just need to cross our fingers that PJ or Zo comes too. Then it's decision time regarding Jax and shooters....and we NEED at least one clutch shooter.

Jax is a good defender...his long arms help him out there...but expecting him to clamp down like bowen on the Kobe's and Finleys of the world...you must be joking....we can live with that in spots, but to depend on it is suicide.

[Archie]

Exactly zak. Spurs will have $3.8 mil in cap room after Kidd would sign (assuming a $42.5 mil cap) to pursuse a free agent big.

No need to ship out your talent just for crap.

[DuffMcCartney]

Bottom line is if Jermaine doesnt come then we focus our attention to Brad Miller. He is probably better than any of the other guys out there other than Jermaine and Brand.