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That's rational thinkin right there, but your not gonna get most spurs fans to think like that. It's not just them, its most fans of most teams. They dont want to believe their favourite player could be responsible for having injured another player.
If say Danny Fortson flopped when trying to take a charging foul on a Manu drive, and by flopping, he landed on Tim Duncan's leg and broke it, a lot of you Spurs fans who defend Manu's flopping would be in an outrage at Danny Fortson.
Manu is a great player, and his flopping does not overshadow his compe ive nature or determined style of play. But, you have to at least understand when some players get annoyed or frustrated by it. Sure, a lot of players flop to a certain degree. But, even Spurs fans have to admit that Manu does it much more than most players. Hey, if you have an advantage, use it. But, perhaps maybe he takes it too far sometimes.
Just look at it objectively.
That's rational thinkin right there, but your not gonna get most spurs fans to think like that. It's not just them, its most fans of most teams. They dont want to believe their favourite player could be responsible for having injured another player.
here's a pic. Take it anyway you want too but it looked like Manu was pushed
Or boxed out.
Sure it was with an extended arm but Bell's extended arm didn't throw Manu to the ground.
If he is being pushed in that picture it is even more interesting because Barbosa is in the opposite direction.
This is the part I find ironic. Manu gets the crap kicked out of him on a nightly basis...that gets convenietly ignored. Manu doesn't about it...he just plays. Personally (and I know I will get slapped with a "homer" label because the idea that someone can be objective about their team is a foriegn concept to those who don't get it) but I thought Manu was pushed judging by the replay I saw. Does Manu flop. Yes. Do a lot of players flop? Yes...Manu did not invent it. As far as traveling goes... , in the NBA its pretty much accepted...even MJ took the extra step. It sucks that Barbosa got hurt. I don't like seeing any player get hurt especially a young exciting kid like him but these things happen. No intent, no pre-meditation. Its like those Spurs fans who were trying to say Ben Wallace intentionally set his foot under Duncans so Duncan would twist his ankle. It's bull . I imagine Barbosa was frustrated and angry, I would be too. Same with Suns fan....I would be pissed. But this Oliver Stone "Manu's out to getcha" crap is stupid. I bet Barbosa will rehab, get healed, be a man and come back...hopefully some of his fans will too.Manu pulled a flop out of his bag of tricks because he was getting the crap kicked out of him and wasn't getting the foul calls
You can be pushed when being boxed out.
I don't know why Spurs fans get so defensive. Manu flops A LOT. Much more than the average player. He's probably one of the top five floppers in the league. It's not that he is completely acting. But if anyone doesn't see how much he regularly overexaggerates the contact to try to get foul calls, I don't know what to think. It's part of what he does. It's not a knock on Manu; it's part of his game.
It is amazing how weak some NBA players are. Barbosa's crying and blaming Manu for his injury that was a result of incidental contact places him in the same lack of class as Allen and Carter. These little girls need to learn to nut it up, understand it is a man's game and just play ball.
Very true. Its probably the only part of his game I don't like but to say its not there is just wrong.I don't know why Spurs fans get so defensive. Manu flops A LOT. Much more than the average player. He's probably one of the top five floppers in the league. It's not that he is completely acting. But if anyone doesn't see how much he regularly overexaggerates the contact to try to get foul calls, I don't know what to think. It's part of what he does. It's not a knock on Manu; it's part of his game.
Suns coach Mike D'Antoni said: "(Ginobili) got tangled up a little bit with Raja Bell and just to make his point, he was falling down. It was an accident."
I am sorry Barbosa got hurt and I understand his frustration. But the fact is that injuries like that happen to everyone from time to time. It is a part of the game.
It appears that Coach D'Antoni understood that it was an accident.
Barbosa knows that Manu didn't hurt him on purpose. But he knows that he flops on purpose. I don't know if people are seeing that distinction. Of course he's not saying that Manu intentionally hurt him ... but hurting him was a consequence of Manu's intentional flopping.
Hopefully Barbosa will be back quickly -- He was playing extremely well.
Ginobili might flop more than most players. But he also takes harder hits than most players. He never gets up in anyone's face after a hard foul with some kind of macho bravado, but most other players do. There's no real empirical basis for this, but it seems intuitively correct: if you compared all the times he's gotten fouled and not received the call to the all the times he's gotten a call which wasn't deserved, the former would probably outnumber the latter. Even if that's not accurate and the two are about even, then justice has been served; the net result is equitable.
Some of the greatest players of all time were habitual floppers, or at least used the technique to get calls (Rodman and Malone in the '98 Finals might be the best example of all time). It's a part of the game that no one really likes, but everyone kind of just accepts.
The Suns (and some of their fans) a whole lot about Manu flopping all the time, and I can understand their frustration. But what Barbosa and D'Antoni and Collangelo and a whole slew of others need to realize is that Manu is not what they make him out to be. He is not a cheap player trying to play outside the rules or cheat the game. While they never explicitly say things like that, the sentiment is implicit in all their comments. It's easy to point a finger at Manu and say he's the boy who cried wolf, but I don't think that exagerrating contact while playing basketball is the same kind of thing.
Exactly. That's all I want Barbosa to do, too.
And your point being?
That kind of thinkin is whats wrong with most fans. Why bring up his good qualities when that isnt what is up for debate. Changin of the subject just shows you have nothing to say .
Say one player likes to give hard flagrant fouls, and he doesnt say anything when he gets a hard foul back, does that make what he's doin in the first place suddenly acceptable.???????
Agreed...for the record, I didn't see Barbosa as ing. The kid was frustrated. I would have been too.That kind of thinkin is whats wrong with most fans. Why bring up his good qualities when that isnt what is up for debate
Well, thank you very much for your opinion. Worth about as much as mine, huh? I did not change the subject (WTF?).
And, at least I wasn't rude to another poster for no reason.
Vince whines
Ray whines
Leandro whines
... not good company for a breaking out youngster like Leandro
Tim doesn't whine
Manu doesn't whine
Shaq doesnt whine (but I think he will probably delay his lazy, fat, bored ass from coming back until after Christmas)
Pop wines.
I think that is fair. I hope Barbosa is better too. I am really sorry he got hurt.
Amazing how the parrots picked up on Karl's banter, when he was trying to work the refs and gain an advantage, and spew it like it is the gosple. Manu, like every player in the NBA, including the mighty Shaq, does exagerate contact on occasion. It is a type of gamesmanship, just like the coaches working the zebras on the court and in the press.
The truth be known, to those who know the game, Manu flops much less than he gets credit for. Especially after playoff publicity brought out the mindless parrots with little knowledge of the game echoing the crying of Karl, Nugget fans, Sonic fans, and Suns fans.
Manu takes extreme contact, perhaps more contact than any player in the NBA because of his unique ability to throw players off balance and step through the smallest of seams in the defense. Yes, he pisses off and frustrates defenders, who don't have a clue on how to stop him.
How any sane rational person could say Manu flops all the time, after the physical contact he endured in last years playoffs, is beyond me. Other star players in the NBA don't "flop" like Manu, because none are capible of consistantly contorting themselves into angles to draw the type of contact he draws with regularity.
That's our Gino!!!
Kori, I am not being defensive. I just feel the camp that claims Manu flops alot in respect to other players does not understand the game, or at least what is unique about Manu's game, making him both unusual and great.
Manu is one of the most flexable contortionists I have seen to play the game. He twists into gaps that few players can find. With this ability, he gets defenders off balance and guessing on which way he is going. Manu himself is often off balance, yet in controll. This creates some of the extreme contact we have witnessed Manu endure. And because Manu contorts to exploit hidden seams, throwing himself off balance, it exagerated the contact when it does happen.
The fact that Manu takes a lot of hits has nothing to do with him flopping. Most of his flopping occurs on the defensive side of the ball. Most of the hits he takes are on the offensive side of the ball. And, with all those hits he takes, he attacks the rim KNOWING he's gonna get hit. Other players don't go around expecting opponents to flop and accidentally injure them.
There are some distinctions that some of you don't seem willing to apply.
Just because Manu takes a lot of hits does not justify any flopping. If someone flagrant fouled Manu, does that give him a free pass on undercutting someone in the air? Of course not. Two different discussions, two different topics. And, some of you are using the wrong arguments to justify any flopping.
Do you see the distinction that Barbosa should have kept his mouth shut on the subject of flopping?
The play was an unfortunate event in the regular course of action. Nuff said. If he is going to play the game, he should be man enough to understand **it happens.
Are you speaking of Manu, or flopping in general. (just asking.)And, some of you are using the wrong arguments to justify any flopping.
samikeyp,
Manu. Using the logic that it's ok to flop since he gets hit so much and doesn't get fouls. The equilibrium, things-work-out-even, two-wrongs-make-a-right argument. I don't think it should be a justifiable rationale.
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