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Ok .. enough fantasy. .this is not rockets forum.
50 Wins.. !!!
David was a real Naval Officer too so dream was not = David wins.
BYE!!
Hakeem vs Shaquille O誰eal: 1995 NBA Finals
# Game 1: Olajuwon: 31 pts - O誰eal 26 pts
# Game 2: Olajuwon: 34 pts - O誰eal 33 pts
# Game 3: Olajuwon: 31 pts - O誰eal 28 pts
# Game 4: Olajuwon: 35 pts - O誰eal 25 pts
Dream: 32.8 ppg
Shaq: 28.0 ppg
At least as far as points go, Shaq did better against Dream than DRob did...against the same double and triple teams. True, his ass got swept, but the stats don't lie.
I'm not doggin on Robinson...the epic battle between me and Obstructed_view in the Robinson v. Duncan thread shows how much I revere him as a player. And I know this has been posted over and over and over again. But it didn't really sink in how bad DRob got owned by Dream until I found that game-by-game breakdown that I originally posted.
I mean... ...poor David.
Ok .. enough fantasy. .this is not rockets forum.
50 Wins.. !!!
David was a real Naval Officer too so dream was not = David wins.
BYE!!
A lot of people forget that Hakeem was the MVP in the 93-94 season, the year before David got his award. In the 94-95 season, the defending champ Rockets got trounced by injuries in the regular season and finished in third place in the Midwest well behind both SA and Utah.
beware sequ in a trenchcoat...he'll show you his little friend...
of course what sequ calls a trenchcoat, we all know simply as a....well...as a coat.
Hakeem vs Shaquille O誰eal: 1995 NBA Finals
# Game 1: Olajuwon: 31 pts - O誰eal 26 pts
# Game 2: Olajuwon: 34 pts - O誰eal 33 pts
# Game 3: Olajuwon: 31 pts - O誰eal 28 pts
# Game 4: Olajuwon: 35 pts - O誰eal 25 pts
Dream: 32.8 ppg
Shaq: 28.0 ppg
At least as far as points go, Shaq did better against Dream than DRob did...against the same double and triple teams. True, his ass got swept, but the stats don't lie.
I'm not doggin on Robinson...the epic battle between me and Obstructed_view in the Robinson v. Duncan thread shows how much I revere him as a player. And I know this has been posted over and over and over again. But it didn't really sink in how bad DRob got owned by Dream until I found that game-by-game breakdown that I originally posted.
I mean... ...poor David.
Well I am misleading. I meant how did Shaq and his team do. Which was not what we did at least.
Actually, with Dennis Scott, Penny Hardaway (with knees), and Nick Anderson, I guarantee you that Houston did not play the same defense that they did against SA. They would have gone down under a rain of 3 pointers. Shaq was a terrible passer at the time, so all they would have had to do was wait for him to put the ball on the floor, and then run one weakside defender at him, and he would give up the rock to someone who was pretty well covered, shooting-wise.Shaq did better against Dream than DRob did...against the same double and triple teams.
Some other notes about the series.
Bob Hill was outcoached more than any coach in any sport was outcoached before or ever will again in a playoff series.
Hill made DRob guard Hakeem one on one - forcing Rob to use an incredible amount of energy on both sides of the court. Hakeem was only a secondary defender - allowing him much needed rest as Chucky Brown and Pete Chilcutt hacked the outta DRob. Hakeem guarding Rodman is a joke. If Bob Hill was at all smart, Rodman would have guarded Hakeem.
The Spurs secondary players were serverely overmatched. Clyde > Sean, Kenny Smith/Cassell > Avery. Horry > Carr, Elie > Vinny of the Black
D-rob knows more about computers than Hakeem
David is a born again Christian.
David is a better musician.
Amen.
Not to take anything away from Worm, who was an amazing defender, but DRob on Hakeem was a better choice. Rodman could do a lot of defense, and he frustrated the out of Malone two years in a row in the Finals, but Hakeem would have eaten that piece of Rodman for breakfast. Hakeem would have shaked and shot 15 foot jumpers over Worm all night, and when he took it to the hole he would have still dominated DRob coming over on help side defense with beautiful little pump fakes and lay-ins.
I think the best consolation that a Spurs fan can take from this Hakeem v. David argument is that DRob didn't spend his Golden Years wasting away on the Raptors bench after being thrown to the curb by the only team he had ever known...he went out with a dominating performance, winning a mother ing Championship on his home floor. The final images of Robinson's career show him standing at center court, raising up the Larry O'Brien trophy, a whole city cheering for him and everything his had meant to us. Pundits will forever call Hakeem the better center, but DRob will always have the better memories. David Robinson retired an NBA Champion...and I bet he'd rather have it that way.
Final Games:
Dream 5/2/02 85-82 Loss to Pistons in EC first round:
15 min, 3-5, 8 pts., 4 reb., 0 assists, 0 blocks
Robinson 6/16/03 88-77 Win over Nets in NBA Finals:
31 min, 6-8, 13 pts., 17 reb., 1 assists, 2 blocks
Not only that, I am not very familiar with Hakeem's carrer, but it has always seemed to me that D-rob sustained better play over a longer period of time, I realize Hakeem had better stats, but that was over an 18 year career. And David did not have the teammates that hakeem had at the time. I would take David again in a heartbeat, I don't feel that winning the championship's satified his personal goals as much as did winning them for the community and fans. I can't think of anyone else to say that about other than maybe Manu winning all his les for Argentina.
That 95 series was painful.
I imagine watching a one on one with TD and Rasho would be reminiscent.
But despite the dreams dominance, the Spurs were able to TAKE back homecourt winning the 2 road games in houston...
and that's when the 3pt line was brought in.
They had horry, ellie, cassell, the dream, and who else? remind me please...
with those outside shooters, akeems inside dominance, and a short 3 pt shot?
sheyitt..they were unstoppable.
who did we have?
aj, vinnie, and sean? with drob and rodman?
rodman who lusted after boards so much he didn't want to guard his man on the wings?
i went to that game 5 heartbreaker at the dome...it sucked.
but oh well...Drob has Two les just like akeem does...and David Retired a Champion.
Not even Jordan can say that.
Its not about whether Rodman or Robinson is a better defender, but rather what is better for the team in total.
Rodman was not as good defensively as Robinson, but Robinson would be amazing coming in for help, and that would be MUCH easier on him as his back was sore all series. With Rodman focusing on that instead of losing Chucky Brown and Robert Horry in the wings, Robinson would have more energy on offense as well as would probably create more turnovers by being the help defense.
OMG BURNNNNEDDavid is a born again Christian.
Yeah...but Jordan retired once with a championship, retired AGAIN with a championship, but the third retirement...well, third time wasn't a charm...That 95 series was painful.
I imagine watching a one on one with TD and Rasho would be reminiscent.
But despite the dreams dominance, the Spurs were able to TAKE back homecourt winning the 2 road games in houston...
and that's when the 3pt line was brought in.
They had horry, ellie, cassell, the dream, and who else? remind me please...
with those outside shooters, akeems inside dominance, and a short 3 pt shot?
sheyitt..they were unstoppable.
who did we have?
aj, vinnie, and sean? with drob and rodman?
rodman who lusted after boards so much he didn't want to guard his man on the wings?
i went to that game 5 heartbreaker at the dome...it sucked.
but oh well...Drob has Two les just like akeem does...and David Retired a Champion.
Not even Jordan can say that.
If only he had STAYED retired the first or second time around...
DRob couldn't have chased Chucky and Bob on the perimeter any better than Rodman could have. And Rodman gave up four or five inches on Olajuwon and was not a very good shot blocker, especially one-on-one, so Robinson's help-side D would have been moot...Dream would have abused Rodman from mid-range, easily shooting over him or driving past him and finding an open Robert Horry for the dunk or the three. If Dream could put up way over 30 per game against one of the best post defenders ever, he would have annihilated Rodman, even if the team defense might have been a little better. I mean, David looked like a chump in that series, but Dream would have put up a nickel on Rodman every night.
Bob Hill's problem was not that he read the defensive assignments wrong...it was that he didn't make good subs utions, didn't have control over some of his players, didn't give two s about preaching the virtues of playing defense one-through-five, and didn't try to find other options when Robinson had a mouthful of Dream . He also didn't emotionally inspire his players. The only guy who even showed up to play in game 6 was Doc ing Rivers (similar to Devin Brown in Game 6 against the Lakers in '04). I can't believe that I actually got mad at Pop when he fired that dip . Pop is 1 million times better than Bob Hill will ever be, and he's the second-biggest reason there are three championship banners hanging in the SBC center right now.
13 and 17 with 2 blks, thanks for reminding me alamo50!
And that Duncan stat line, almost quadruple in the most important game of the season, well that's the test of a true champion, and TD keeps coming through when he needs to. Did the same this year in the 3rd quarter of game 7 - man, watching him fight through the Wallaces, getting hacked, missing 2fters, but finally getting it rolling, hitting some FTs, then breaking free and banking a couple in a row from the left wing... shivers, good shivers! And then Manu with that big dunk to start the 4th... sorry, I digress.
Olajuwon definitely had better players around him all through the 90s.
That's not true. Revisionist really. Hakeem averaged 5.5 assists per game that year in that series; this is a guy who didnt even average 3.0 assists over his career. That tells you objectively that he was double teamed quite a bit in the series. The way Hakeem was playing those yrs, every team in the league doubled him as they do with Duncan, Robinson, O'Neal, or all great big men.
How do you think guys like Robert Horry, Kenny Smith, Mario Elie, and Sam Cassell were hurting the Spurs in that series so much without the attention Hakeem was getting? Those aren't guys who are known (except for Sam and to a limited degree back then) as guys who can create their own shots.
One of the major differences in Hakeem's game and DRob's is that even when you double Hakeem, he can still get off his patented turnaround because he's turning away from the double and fading away and is 7 foot. Robinson didn't have a shot like that; hence he was less successful and more easily taken out of games.
Don't forget the NBA's community service award is called the "David Robinson" award...
Shouldn't we like, do a website on who gets that award, with updates as they happen? I mean, after all, it is an award named after the second face of our favorite franchise.
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