Simple Questions for the pro-Amnesty crowd

[cheguevara]

Seems like the protests are working...

GOP leadership backs away from tough immigration measure
Hastert, Frist suggest felony provision should be dropped

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The top Republicans in both the House and Senate are indicating they don't support language in an immigration bill that would make entering the country illegally a felony.

The proposal has drawn the ire of pro-immigrant groups that have staged a wave of protests in recent weeks.

The provision making illegal immigration a felony was contained in an immigration reform bill passed by the House in December. But in a joint statement issued Tuesday evening, House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee both indicated they wanted the language dropped.

Frist and Hastert also criticized House Democrats, who, they said, opposed efforts by Republicans to strip the provision from the bill before it passed.

"Instead, they voted to make felons out of all of those who remain in our country illegally," their statement said. (Watch the politics of immigration -- 2:28)

Frist and Hastert did not specify whether they wanted unlawful presence in the United States to be a misdemeanor or carry a lesser penalty.

Their statement was also silent on the question of whether they had come to any agreement on two issues that have split Republicans -- creating a guest-worker program, or allowing undo ented immigrants in the country illegally to work their way toward legal status.

The provision making illegal immigration a felony was part of a bill pushed by House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican. It passed the House in December by a vote of 239-182, with only 36 Democrats supporting the final version of the measure.

Responding to Tuesday's criticism of Democrats by Hastert and Frist, Jennifer Crider, a spokeswoman for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California, said "no amount of spin can change the fact that Republicans wrote and passed the Sensenbrenner bill, which criminalizes an entire population."

Crider also said Republicans "are feeling the heat" after demonstrations that brought out hundreds of thousands of protesters Monday at rallies in at least 140 cities in more than 39 states. (Full story)

Sensenbrenner, who sponsored the provision making illegal immigration a felony, said last week that he tried to remove it from the bill in December and remains open to making the change as the House and Senate try to reach an agreement on a final bill.

Republican Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado, a leading advocate of cracking down on illegal immigration, has accused Democrats of trying to keep the felony provision in the bill as a "poison pill."

But Sen. Edward Kennedy on Tuesday dismissed such characterizations.

"Actions speak louder than words, and there's no running away from the fact that the Republican House passed a bill and Senator Frist offered one that criminalizes immigrants," the Massachusetts Democrat said.

"This debate shouldn't be about making criminals out of hard-working families ... but rather about strengthening our national security and enacting a law that reflects our best values and our humanity," he said in a written statement.

Sensenbrenner's bill also calls for building 700 miles of security fence along the Mexican border and would also make assisting illegal immigrants a felony.

It does not include a guest-worker provision, as President Bush has called for, or a legalization process for people already in the United States illegally. Critics dismiss that idea as "amnesty," while supporters call it "earned citizenship." (Watch how illegal labor impacts the economy -- 2:42)

House GOP aides said Tuesday that language aimed at punishing people who help illegal immigrants was aimed at smugglers who bring people across the border, not at charities who assist the migrants.

As protests against the House bill mounted in late March, the White House and the Republican National Committee raised concerns that the anti-immigration sentiment coming from some corners of the GOP would turn off Latino voters that Bush and his political team have worked hard to court.

But Republican leaders must also contend with a growing chorus within their conservative base to crack down on illegal immigration. (Watch importance of Latino vote questioned -- 2:07)

Senate attempts to pass an immigration reform bill stalled last week when a measure establishing a guest-worker program and a mechanism for legalization failed to overcome opposition from conservative Republicans

[SA210]

Seems like the protests are working...

GOP leadership backs away from tough immigration measure
Hastert, Frist suggest felony provision should be dropped

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The top Republicans in both the House and Senate are indicating they don't support language in an immigration bill that would make entering the country illegally a felony.

The proposal has drawn the ire of pro-immigrant groups that have staged a wave of protests in recent weeks.

The provision making illegal immigration a felony was contained in an immigration reform bill passed by the House in December. But in a joint statement issued Tuesday evening, House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee both indicated they wanted the language dropped.

Frist and Hastert also criticized House Democrats, who, they said, opposed efforts by Republicans to strip the provision from the bill before it passed.

"Instead, they voted to make felons out of all of those who remain in our country illegally," their statement said. (Watch the politics of immigration -- 2:28)

Frist and Hastert did not specify whether they wanted unlawful presence in the United States to be a misdemeanor or carry a lesser penalty.

Their statement was also silent on the question of whether they had come to any agreement on two issues that have split Republicans -- creating a guest-worker program, or allowing undo ented immigrants in the country illegally to work their way toward legal status.

The provision making illegal immigration a felony was part of a bill pushed by House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican. It passed the House in December by a vote of 239-182, with only 36 Democrats supporting the final version of the measure.

Responding to Tuesday's criticism of Democrats by Hastert and Frist, Jennifer Crider, a spokeswoman for House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi of California, said "no amount of spin can change the fact that Republicans wrote and passed the Sensenbrenner bill, which criminalizes an entire population."

Crider also said Republicans "are feeling the heat" after demonstrations that brought out hundreds of thousands of protesters Monday at rallies in at least 140 cities in more than 39 states. (Full story)

Sensenbrenner, who sponsored the provision making illegal immigration a felony, said last week that he tried to remove it from the bill in December and remains open to making the change as the House and Senate try to reach an agreement on a final bill.

Republican Rep. Tom Tancredo of Colorado, a leading advocate of cracking down on illegal immigration, has accused Democrats of trying to keep the felony provision in the bill as a "poison pill."

But Sen. Edward Kennedy on Tuesday dismissed such characterizations.

"Actions speak louder than words, and there's no running away from the fact that the Republican House passed a bill and Senator Frist offered one that criminalizes immigrants," the Massachusetts Democrat said.

"This debate shouldn't be about making criminals out of hard-working families ... but rather about strengthening our national security and enacting a law that reflects our best values and our humanity," he said in a written statement.

Sensenbrenner's bill also calls for building 700 miles of security fence along the Mexican border and would also make assisting illegal immigrants a felony.

It does not include a guest-worker provision, as President Bush has called for, or a legalization process for people already in the United States illegally. Critics dismiss that idea as "amnesty," while supporters call it "earned citizenship." (Watch how illegal labor impacts the economy -- 2:42)

House GOP aides said Tuesday that language aimed at punishing people who help illegal immigrants was aimed at smugglers who bring people across the border, not at charities who assist the migrants.

As protests against the House bill mounted in late March, the White House and the Republican National Committee raised concerns that the anti-immigration sentiment coming from some corners of the GOP would turn off Latino voters that Bush and his political team have worked hard to court.

But Republican leaders must also contend with a growing chorus within their conservative base to crack down on illegal immigration. (Watch importance of Latino vote questioned -- 2:07)

Senate attempts to pass an immigration reform bill stalled last week when a measure establishing a guest-worker program and a mechanism for legalization failed to overcome opposition from conservative Republicans

Si Se Puede!

[Trainwreck2100]

I don't understand why this is an issue, this country has worked this way for 200+ years, and people want to make something of it now.

[boutons_]

[JoeChalupa]

Tough call. I don't want blind amnesty and quite honestly I don't know the answer is.

[boutons_]

a horribly complex problem.

a mix I saw suggested was amnesty for everybody here, but build fence to keep more illegals out. Whatever the solutions will be, the policing/enforcement costs will be horrendous.

[Phenomanul]

If Americans want to blame someone for this problem they have no further to look than the mirror. America has sat by knowing full well what was going on and it hasn't even made a token effort to stop it. And now, in a post 9/11 world they are fearful of open borders and are now trying to address a problem that has been on going for decades.

When you fall asleep at the wheel, don't try to make the people who are breaking your laws take some kind of introspective look into what they are doing and how it theoreticaly harms the average American person (which is complete bull either way).

I'll tell you right now that if I was in Mexico and could make more money here to support my family, I would do it in a heartbeat; American laws be damned.

I don't think outright citizenship is what many of these people really want in the end. I believe they want a chance to work but they don't require citizenship. How in the do any of you expect them to grasp onto the American flag when they are outsiders in this country? All of the uproar over the native flags they wave is silly. That is the only thing they can identifiy with!

There's also so much bull about assimilation flying around. These people don't conform blah blah blah. Since when has conformity ever been a something we value in America? People are always xenophobic and you can try to masquerade it through different ways but it always boils down to the same damn thing.

Fix the damn border, let the people here stay in some legal form, and implement a guest worker program.

Everything is all moot unless you fix the border however. Trying to make them felons is idiotic as . But hey, Joe Republican Rep can show that he's DOING SOMETHING.

You are right on... with regards to this topic...

[Phenomanul]

People who chose to immigrate legally are usually qualified workers who are not suffering in their own countries like the indo entados suffer.

Your analogy is flawed.

He won't understand it cause he assumes the legal pathways are as easy as 1 2 3....

The legal pathways are expensive and bersome... more than 99% of people applying for a VISA are turned down or disswayed by the ridiculous costs and time required to actually obtain legal entry.

[Oh, Gee!!]

He won't understand it cause he assumes the legal pathways are as easy as 1 2 3....

The legal pathways are expensive and bersome... more than 99% of people applying for a VISA are turned down or disswayed by the ridiculous costs and time required to actually obtain legal entry.

yet he'd probably defend to the death the Enron execs. Good old, Yoni.

[xrayzebra]

Want some really interesting information. Those that entered the country
legally wouldn't be covered in the amnesty bill. Great little piece of legislation
isn't it. They gotta go thru the old process. No sir, you gotta be a law breaker
to get the fast track.

[Mr. Peabody]

Unless you're a citizen, you can be deported for a conviction. There's a system already in place for dealing with criminals from other countries.

Right, but these people will be deported only after they've committed the crime. So you are talking about tens of thousands of crimes (potentially with tens of thousands of victims) being committed by people that never should have been here in the first place.

Your remedy is too little too late.

[Mr. Peabody]

That's a common excuse for many crimes. What you're failing to acknowledge is that their crime of illegal immigration makes it more difficult for those who are here legally to find jobs and to assimilate.

What about the people who choose to immigrate legally? they're coming from the same "3rd world country," the same " hole;" yet, they play by the rules.

Sorry, I don't feel sorry for the dude that robs a bank to buy formula for his baby either.

You make it seem as if everyone that wants to come to this country to work can do so legally and that is simply not the case. The government caps the number of work visas per year. So you have people that want to work, but can't come over legally because the work visas are capped out. What do you do then?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Right, but these people will be deported only after they've committed the crime. So you are talking about tens of thousands of crimes (potentially with tens of thousands of victims) being committed by people that never should have been here in the first place.

Your remedy is too little too late.

Sounds like a good argument for abortion. I keed. I keed.

[Yonivore]

You make it seem as if everyone that wants to come to this country to work can do so legally and that is simply not the case. The government caps the number of work visas per year. So you have people that want to work, but can't come over legally because the work visas are capped out. What do you do then?

What is the rationale for caps?

[gtown's dad]

Illegals are ok in my book.

[steven seagal]

my family came from Sicili, the old country

[Guru of Nothing]

Want some really interesting information. Those that entered the country
legally wouldn't be covered in the amnesty bill. Great little piece of legislation
isn't it. They gotta go thru the old process. No sir, you gotta be a law breaker
to get the fast track.

Let's fix this problem once and for all xray - MANDATORY prison sentences for individuals that employ illegal aliens.

Why not??

[Phenomanul]

Want some really interesting information. Those that entered the country
legally wouldn't be covered in the amnesty bill. Great little piece of legislation
isn't it. They gotta go thru the old process. No sir, you gotta be a law breaker
to get the fast track.

How about we think outside the box on this one Xray?

Maybe, just maybe there is something wrong with the legal process on this one.

When perfectly honest people have to 'break a law' just to make an honest and well-earned living then perhaps the law and those processes need to be questioned --- which is exactly what is being observed today.

I love this country, but compassion towards my fellow human beings should transcend beyond geographic, and nationalistic lines. I just hope others wouldn't letty petty things such as money or power get in their way.

[Nbadan]

Let's fix this problem once and for all xray - MANDATORY prison sentences for individuals that employ illegal aliens.

Why not??

There you go, enforce and toughen the laws that are already in the books regarding the employing of illegals, and they won't come so fast. But the Republicans won't do that because that would mean attacking the business community, and that means loss of campaign money.

[gtownspur]

How about we think outside the box on this one Xray?

Maybe, just maybe there is something wrong with the legal process on this one.

When perfectly honest people have to 'break a law' just to make an honest and well-earned living then perhaps the law and those processes need to be questioned --- which is exactly what is being observed today.

I love this country, but compassion towards my fellow human beings should transcend beyond geographic, and nationalistic lines. I just hope others wouldn't letty petty things such as money or power get in their way.

DOes not the bible says in the epistles to something like, charity begins in the home. We are a country of benefits, when you have illegals cross over, those same benefits awarded to our citizens, have to be given to illegals. it's like this parable "We only have so much bread to impart with the hungry." IF they are here, we have to give them all sorts of aid. Blanket amnesty will do that and will bankrupt our social services.

It's assinine to think that the immi laws are the culprit, how bout the fact that illegal's come into the country illegally by droves, limits the need for legal immigrants to come here, and makes the process harder. if buttloads are arriving, why do you want to relax the process? That's insane, and wont work. If people are desperate, waiting from 10 years to now 2, it wont make a difference.

What's immoral is the fact that feel gooders want to turn away from this illegal act happening and say that "they are just trying to make a better living". While defending the status qou, they are also defending the "sweepstakes" like process that occurs now, which keeos alot of people in danger coming over here, having to go through obstacles physically and emotionally.

We need to actually improve our borders by either building a wall, training the national guard to help out, or increasing border patrol while penalizing buisinesses who hire these people.
Massive deportation, needs to be done. a sensible deportation would be to deport any illegal who has a criminal record, or is serving time, as well as deport anyone who has been here for only the last two years. Deportation, even on a small scale like the one i provided, will send a message, and will mean that we are serious.
BUt the other things also need to be enforced.

[gtownspur]

I guess no one wants to refute my post?....

[Oh, Gee!!]

I guess no one wants to refute my post?....

doesn't the Bible say "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's?"

[xrayzebra]

Let's fix this problem once and for all xray - MANDATORY prison sentences for individuals that employ illegal aliens.

Why not??

I have no problem at all with prosecueting those who employ illegals. It
was Congress fault that it isn't being done. Although, someone is feeling
the heat from the American public, read about all the folks at the pallet
companies? Of course ICE said they had been working on problem for
a year....yeah, you bet.

How about we think outside the box on this one Xray?

Maybe, just maybe there is something wrong with the legal process on this one.

When perfectly honest people have to 'break a law' just to make an honest and well-earned living then perhaps the law and those processes need to be questioned --- which is exactly what is being observed today.

I love this country, but compassion towards my fellow human beings should transcend beyond geographic, and nationalistic lines. I just hope others wouldn't letty petty things such as money or power get in their
way

There was really nothing wrong with the present law, it just wasn't enforced
a. Border Patrol did not have nearly enough people to enforce it, considering
the amount of people coming across. b. When enforcement was tried
against the employers, they called their Congressmen/Senators and
had them call off the dogs. Congress told INS to quit enforcing the law.
Not only that, cities, such as San Antonio took and still take the stand
that they will not help enforce the law. SAPD/SO could help considerably
by holding illegals for USBP, which is done by many Police Departments.
DPS used to do it, but now the only thing they will do is call BP when
they catch someone smuggling illegals.

SA210. Your demonstrations aren't going to come off on the 1st of May
like you wanted. The "leaders" have seen the handwriting on the wall.
And employers are telling their workers: work or get fired. Me personally,
I plan on going shopping that day.

[Phenomanul]

DOes not the bible says in the epistles to something like, charity begins in the home. We are a country of benefits, when you have illegals cross over, those same benefits awarded to our citizens, have to be given to illegals. it's like this parable "We only have so much bread to impart with the hungry." IF they are here, we have to give them all sorts of aid. Blanket amnesty will do that and will bankrupt our social services.

Based on what figures??? I believe the primary focus of migrant workers is to work... Don't they pay Social Security Taxes just like the rest of us citizens??? Don't they pay sales taxes too?

With regards to healthcare don't even get me started on that issue.... the underlying problem in that system is that everything is overpriced; medicines, services, treatments, appointments... etc... AND a large chunk of that particular financial burden on the government stems from high medical pricing (a market not driven by supply and demand) moreso than from the numbers of people (illegal or not) requiring aid.

It's assinine to think that the immi laws are the culprit, how bout the fact that illegal's come into the country illegally by droves, limits the need for legal immigrants to come here, and makes the process harder. if buttloads are arriving, why do you want to relax the process? That's insane, and wont work. If people are desperate, waiting from 10 years to now 2, it wont make a difference.

It does when you consider their motives.... If I'm the desperate person in your example and can't feed my children what makes you think I would want to wait 2 years and spend up to a year's worth of my salary on obtaining legal permission???

The problem is not as simple as you have defined it.

What's immoral is the fact that feel gooders want to turn away from this illegal act happening and say that "they are just trying to make a better living". While defending the status qou, they are also defending the "sweepstakes" like process that occurs now, which keeos alot of people in danger coming over here, having to go through obstacles physically and emotionally.

We need to actually improve our borders by either building a wall, training the national guard to help out, or increasing border patrol while penalizing buisinesses who hire these people.

So we spend more money.... to keep people out as opposed to spending it on and for the people...

Building a wall???? Have we come to such hypocrisy??? Remember Berlin?

Massive deportation, needs to be done. a sensible deportation would be to deport any illegal who has a criminal record, or is serving time, as well as deport anyone who has been here for only the last two years. Deportation, even on a small scale like the one i provided, will send a message, and will mean that we are serious.
BUt the other things also need to be enforced.

Deportation of criminals was never in debate...

A massive deportation like the one you describe would cost considerably more money than the money supposedly vanishing from our reserves on account of goverment aid to 'illegals'.

Embrace yourself for $5/gal milk, $5/doz of eggs, $3 heads of lettuce, $5/lb grapefruit and oranges.... not to mention the fact that plumbers, roof-repairers, gardeners, would cost more money to hire... and that the $/sq-ft of construction would likely go up by 20% or more....

If you have the 'money' to swallow all of those unneccesary inflations just realize that not all of us do.

[xrayzebra]

Based on what figures??? I believe the primary focus of migrant workers is to work... Don't they pay Social Security Taxes just like the rest of us citizens??? Don't they pay sales taxes too?

With regards to healthcare don't even get me started on that issue.... the underlying problem in that system is that everything is overpriced; medicines, services, treatments, appointments... etc... AND a large chunk of that particular financial burden on the government stems from high medical pricing (a market not driven by supply and demand) moreso than from the numbers of people (illegal or not) requiring aid.




It does when you consider their motives.... If I'm the desperate person in your example and can't feed my children what makes you think I would want to wait 2 years and spend up to a year's worth of my salary on obtaining legal permission???

The problem is not as simple as you have defined it.



So we spend more money.... to keep people out as opposed to spending it on and for the people...

Building a wall???? Have we come to such hypocrisy??? Remember Berlin?




Deportation of criminals was never in debate...

A massive deportation like the one you describe would cost considerably more money than the money supposedly vanishing from our reserves on account of goverment aid to 'illegals'.

Embrace yourself for $5/gal milk, $5/doz of eggs, $3 heads of lettuce, $5/lb grapefruit and oranges.... not to mention the fact that plumbers, roof-repairers, gardeners, would cost more money to hire... and that the $/sq-ft of construction would likely go up by 20% or more....

If you have the 'money' to swallow all of those unneccesary inflations just realize that not all of us do.

BS, BS and more BS......illegals do not decrease the cost of the things you
cite. Besides we are paying alot more than than the price at the
grocery store for these items through social programs. We should
"embrace" or "brace" these cost. I only like to enbrace ladies.

Bye the way many of the illegals work "off the book". You know like
day workers, where many of our fine cites provide a convient location
for them to be picked up by contractors who go by each day to pick
them up to do, well you know, day work.