Well deserved.
Then what do we give him for all those blocks and steals? All those altered shots? Forcing players out of bounds off of baseline picks? Denying a cutter through the lane, sealing off defenders on the offensive end to create open shots for his teammates? Drives to the lane that become jumpshots because of his mere presence?
Bruce Bowen was my pick this year. However, don't tear down Ben simply because Bowen lost.
DPOY for last couple of years
Bruce Bowen > Ben, Artest
I'd rather have the rebounds. Why? Because I watched three good perimeter defenders in Grant Hill, Joe Dumars, and Lindsey Hunter play some great perimeter defense and get burned. Kobe Bryant and Ray Allen are eventually going to get off a shot. With no last line of defense at the rim to stop those players, it's too easy for them to go on runs.
Offense comes and goes. And when the coming goes, I'd rather have someone who creates more opportunities for my team to win. I'd rather have Rasheed Wallace rebound an errant Rip Hamilton shot for a lay-in that was a part of the Pistons 4th quarter comeback in game seven in Miami last season's Eastern Conference Finals.
Like all things in team sports, one does not function without the other. But I've seen one function without the other, and I'd rather see someone who controls the amount of possessions, not one that has to win every possession.
Remember: Robert Horry's back-breaking three in the 2001-02 Western Conference Finals came off of 2 offensive rebounds.
Ben Wallace is a great defender but not one on one. That's why Detroit has Rasheed guard Duncan. If Ben was to be on Duncan, he would get punished inside. Because Ben is on the weak side, he can come help any perimeter defender that gets beat. That and rebouding is all he does.
Bowen on the other hand, is a shut down guy. Any player going against already has it in their heads that they are in for a tough night. Instead focusing on the game, they will try and be superman and try to dominate Bowen. Their whole game is then out of the window because they will never succeed in dominating Bowen. That's why you hear the es whining about Bowen in the media. i.e Dirk, Carter, Allen. They are used to scoring against anybody and when they are not succeeding, they resort to ing.
Bowen is a game changer because he shuts down a player, which changes the game. Ben is simply a help defender. He can also be a game changer if he constantly gets blocks and rebounds, but that doesn't always work. I think many know that Ben's defensive game this year has been worse than previous years. When Dwayne Wade was torching the pistons this season, Ben couldn't do because he can't guard Wade. This is where he differs from Bowen. Bowen can guard almost any player. He D on Dirk so far has been textbook.
Remember: If Wade was being guarded by Bowen, he wouldn't have off. Bowen would have put him in lock down mode.
DPOY = Bowen. This year.
wade can get his against anyone. he played pretty well against bruce this year if i remember correctly. he may have to work that much harder, but he can still get it done. bruce is a great defender, but people can have good games against him.
Post of the Day
Bruce was robbed.
did ben get selected for the world/ olympic games??
What other DPOY has been a help defender rather than a man on shut down defender? Has been for their position on their team, perimeter or post, the second best man on defender?
2004-05 Ben Wallace Detroit
2003-04 Ron Artest Indiana
2002-03 Ben Wallace Detroit
2001-02 Ben Wallace Detroit
2000-01 Dikembe Mutombo Philadelphia-Atlanta
1999-00 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1998-99 Alonzo Mourning Miami
1997-98 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1996-97 Dikembe Mutombo Atlanta
1995-96 Gary Payton Seattle
1994-95 Dikembe Mutombo Denver
1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1992-93 Hakeem Olajuwon Houston
1991-92 David Robinson San Antonio
1990-91 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1989-90 Dennis Rodman Detroit
1988-89 Mark Eaton Utah
1987-88 Michael Jordan Chicago
1986-87 Michael Cooper Los Angeles Lakers
1985-86 Alvin Robertson San Antonio
1984-85 Mark Eaton Utah
1983-84 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee
1982-83 Sidney Moncrief Milwaukee
He's just helpside defense and rebounding? Yeah, and all Bruce Bowen does is flop and hack his assignment to death.
I want everyone on here to answer a question: what is the purpose of defense?
Last edited by Darrin; 05-09-2006 at 05:10 PM.
Look, I love Bowen's defense as much as any Spurs fan, but you're really not supporting this point of yours. What makes Bruce the best over Ben? And why was it robbery? Bowen by no means ever had it locked up.
What does this have to do with DPOY award?
In fact, Ben was asked to be interviewed by Colangelo. Ben graciously declined the invi ation to be interviewed as he was not interested in being part of the team.
Ben was on the US Team in 2003. He wasn't thrilled about what happened in Indianapolis and has since not been interested in being part of Team USA, just like Tim Duncan does not want to participate.
well, quite simply, to defend.
If all you're going to argue with is his rebounding and blocks. Well he should dominate, meaning be at least the top two in each catagory. Especially since thats all he does.
He ranked fourth in the NBA in rebounding (11.3), ninth in blocks (2.2)
I wouldn't call that outstanding, would you?
Nobody is saying he's not worthy, he's in the running every yr. He just shouldn't of won it THIS year. DPOY like MVP is a yr in yr out thing. Bowen has been outstanding yr in an yr out and still yet to win one. Ben has gotten by with his reputation the past couple of ys, which is a great rep, but not deserving this yr.
Saying Ben is not a good one-on-one defender is false. Ben is very good at holding his own in the post or in a face-up situation against anyone. I've seen Tim Duncan school him, but I've also seen Ben play him straight up and block his shot, not even coming from the weakside, but playing him one-on-one. And, Tim Duncan can school just about anyone, so I'm not sure why getting beat once in a while means you're not one of the best defenders in the league.
I've seen Ben block Shaq plenty of times playing him one-on-one and not coming from the weakside. I've seen Ben all the way out to the three-point line guarding Kevin Garnett and locking him down. I've seen Ben switch on Kobe and Dwyane Wade and do better than any other power forward or center in the league staying with them.
Rasheed might in fact be a better man post defender than Ben Wallace, because Rasheed is taller and longer and can bother taller players like Tim Duncan or Kevin Garnett. Ben even stated in his recent interviews something that many people already knew, he's not 6-foot-9. Ben is really only 6-foot-7. How much more amazing are the things he does?
And, the DPOY does not just go to the player who is the best man defender. It's not just about shutting down one guy. Ben is a great help defender. He plays passing lanes and gets steals and deflections and blocks. Ben is great at the pick-and-roll with either hedging high or completely switching onto a perimeter player. Ben alters just as many if not more shots than he blocks. That's not even the tip of the iceberg as Ben is still one of the best rebounders and team defenders in the modern NBA era.
I could see an argument that Bruce is a better man defender than Ben Wallace. I can even agree to a certain extent that Ben isn't even the best man post defender on his team (Rasheed) or best man perimeter defender on his team (Tayshaun or Lindsey). But, it's not singularly man defense that makes Ben so great. He is more than adequate in man defense in the post or on the perimeter. The best? No. But, actually very, very good, and better than some of the people on this thread give him credit for. Ben isn't the best shotblocker in the league either. Alonzo, AK-47, even Theo Ratliff still might be better. But, Ben is a top shot blocker. Ben isn't the best at creating steals. But, he's top ten in the league.
You see, it's the aggregate defense, not just one individual area of defense. He's a great shotblocker and rebounder. As a big man, he's probably the best at getting steals if you consider Kirilenko a perimeter player. He's also one of the best weakside defenders. As a man defender, he may not be the best, but he's still very good. And, so you look at all the different facets of playing defense, then you understand that being great in all of the areas is probably better than being the best at one area but average or below average at the other facets of defense.
Bruce is arguably the best perimeter man defender in the league. That is only one facet of defense. Blocking shots? Rebounding? Altering shots? Weakside help defense? Getting steals? Switching onto a big man who plays on the post?
You'll find you argument for Bruce Bowen less and less compelling when you really think about it.
2006 DPOY
Bowen > Ben
Problem is that's not all he does. He's also top ten in steals, almost unheard of for a center, unless you're Hakeem Olajuwan.
He also is one of the best big men in terms of playing the pick-and-roll, one of the basic staples for all NBA team offenses. He is a rare center that can adequately play guards and small forwards for at least one or two possessoins on a switch. Would you let Bruce Bowen switch on Shaquille O'Neal or Yao Ming or Zydrunas Ilgauskas or Eddy Curry without a double team?
Ben deflects passes, gets in passing lanes, clogs the paint, alters shots, force guards to stop penetrating, keeps the basketball from going to an entire side of the court, plays all the way out to the 3-point line.
I would hardly say that rebounding and blocking shots is all he does, and being top ten in both is far from average.
We've read your statements.
We've yet to read your argument.
David Robinson was also a great at steals.
You see the theory that he's great because he does things other centers don't do like guard smaller players is.....FLAWED. He's only 6'7, so it's easier for him to guard a PG, SG or SF, unlike TD or Shaq, Yao, etc....He has low center of gravity which makes him move quicker than your TRUE big man.
Perhaps I'm not being clear. What's the point to it? I mean, scoring is how you win games. All the defense in the world doesn't get a win. The best defense in the world with no offense, in a world of absolute zero, is no more than a tie; an endless game of overtime.
So what is its point?
Then the question becomes: why doesn't Kobe Bryant, who is 6"8, or Lebron James, who is 6"9 - why aren't they averaging 12.9 RPG, 2.86 BPG, and 1.34 spg?
I mean, they are way more talented than Big Ben. Why can't they play the center position?
Well because that's not their job, that's Ben only job. Ben plays the C postion which leaves him at the rim 90% of the time. And he avg 11.3 not 12, he avg 2.2 not 2.8.
Just in case ya Pistons fans missed it the first time.
Just admit Ben shouldn't of won it this yr. The top scorers in the leaque have been ing about Bowen the past couple of yrs. He shuts the best offensive scorers in the leaque most nights. THE BEST SCORER in the LEAGUE this yr KOBE, said Bowen is the best defender and even gave his congrats to him saying he's a lock to win.
THATS what defense is all about.
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