Question for all the Pop Lovers

[raspsa]

The Mavs have the deepest bench this season.

[Fabbs]

So break it down for me you "Dallas has a better roster then the Spurs" people. I'm not buying that at all.

T. Duncan >> Dampier huge + Spurs
T. Parker = J Terry. Only because Parkers injury (due to Pop IMO.)
M. Ginobili = Josh Howard
M. Finley = Stackhouse
B. Bowen < Dirk Altho the advantage is not as huge as one would think. Many thought Pop could have done as D'Antoni did and have Bowen play some offense also as Diop did vs Dirk, make Dirk play some D and tire him out for O. Would not have "stopped" Dirk but certainly slowed him down vs Phx.
Laugh at Bowens O all you want, he displayed a lot of improvement this year. Plus even if he just worked Dirk then passed off, a lot better then4 Down Stand n Veg (repeat feeding Tim was great, having the other 4 stand around while clock burned simply a. let Dallas rest on D b. gave little or no opportunity for O rebound. Oh btw, Spurs outrebounded 11 of 13 playoff games.)
B. Barry = Devin Harris. For those squaking that the Spurs did not have a backup point guard, Barry did just fine the several times e ran the point as a starter in the 2nd half. Dallas went with Harris and Terry together many times. Sure they might zip past Barry but with a real ball movement offense
isolating Barry on either small on O, he would score aplenty on Harris or Terry.
R. Horry = Van Horn
N. Mohammed = see vs Phx last year. I think he could have done whatever Diop did.
B. Udrih =
R. Nesterovic =
N. Van Exel = was both good and bad.
F. Oberto = 11 minutes vs Dirk and all Dirk got was a layup off a screen and some more of his bogus FTs in his 24 FTA off of 3-9 shot attempts.

[MadDog73]

So break it down for me you "Dallas has a better roster then the Spurs" people. I'm not buying that at all.

Stats don't lie: http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2005/...emi_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2...emi_stats.html

Tim was the best player with 32.3 ppg.
Manu had 21.3, Tony had 20.1; which was great.

Then Spurs get into trouble:

Michael Finley: 37 min, 10.6 pts.
Brent Barry: 23 min, 5.3 pts.
Bruce Bowen: 38.4 min, 4.7 pts (yes, I realize that Bruce is defensive, but that's still below his regular season stats of 7.5 ppg)

Dallas?

5 players avg in double digits:

Dirk: 27.1; Terry 19.7; Howard 16.4; Stackhouse 16; Harris 12.7 ppg

91.9 pts from those 5.

Spurs get 89.6 from their top 5. Close, very close, but so were the games.

I guess next you'll tell me that Nazr or Rasho would get more points than they'd allow on the other end, if they played more minutes....

BTW, Dirk owned the Spurs, as his PPG actually went up against the Spurs vs the regular season.

[SPARKY]

The difference wasn't that great (OT Game 7). One big 3 or small 4 who can stay with Dirk and body him up on the glass was about it. Or perhaps an otherwise clutch SG who knows to let a guy go for 2 when you are up 3 with 20 secs left.

[MadDog73]

The difference wasn't that great (OT Game 7). One big 3 or small 4 who can stay with Dirk and body him up on the glass was about it. Or perhaps an otherwise clutch SG who knows to let a guy go for 2 when you are up 3 with 20 secs left.

In other words, not the Coach's fault.

[Fabbs]

Stats don't lie: http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2005/...emi_stats.html

http://www.nba.com/mavericks/stats/2...emi_stats.html

Tim was the best player with 32.3 ppg.
Manu had 21.3, Tony had 20.1; which was great.

Then Spurs get into trouble:

Michael Finley: 37 min, 10.6 pts.
Brent Barry: 23 min, 5.3 pts.
Bruce Bowen: 38.4 min, 4.7 pts (yes, I realize that Bruce is defensive, but that's still below his regular season stats of 7.5 ppg)

Dallas?

5 players avg in double digits:

Dirk: 27.1; Terry 19.7; Howard 16.4; Stackhouse 16; Harris 12.7 ppg

91.9 pts from those 5.

Spurs get 89.6 from their top 5. Close, very close, but so were the games.

I guess next you'll tell me that Nazr or Rasho would get more points than they'd allow on the other end, if they played more minutes....

BTW, Dirk owned the Spurs, as his PPG actually went up against the Spurs vs the regular season.

I say you are completely making my point. Dallas spread offense vs our Stand n Veg. You are saying Finley Barry and Bowen are incapable of putting up double figures? I say poppy , that is Pops non offense all the way.
You tell me how Nazr accomplished what he did last years playoffs and then tell me how for a fact he/Nazr would have sucked this year. We just don't know.

[FromWayDowntown]

In other words, not the Coach's fault.

Everyone bears some responsibility. The point is, I think, that the difference between the Spurs and Mavericks was a bounce here or there; a rebound, a turnover, a touch foul, a technical foul, a missed layup. There's not enough there to say that one team was clearly better than the other; and there's not enough there to say that the difference was coaching or players -- it was basketball. One team wins and one team loses and sometimes it's just a matter of a bounce. The Mavericks won and props to them for making their own bounces at times. The Spurs had it in their own hands -- largely, I think, because Popovich made the right decisions to get them there -- and let it slip away. Hopefully, it will be a learning experience and they'll get that fuel that Popovich thought they needed -- the fuel that fed Detroit during the regular season and the fuel that fed Dallas during the playoff series.

[ChumpDumper]

You tell me how Nazr accomplished what he did last years playoffs

Holding Amare to 40 per game?

[Fabbs]

Holding Amare to 40 per game?

4-1 win and that was with Duncan on Amare plenty of the time. If you are more happy with the 7 game loss to a balanced Dallas attack with no one over 30ppg, oh well.

Old Detroit teams did the same with MJ. Let him score and beat the rest.

The point of this thread is for yout to tell how Dallas lineup was better, so go for it.

[MadDog73]

I say you are completely making my point. Dallas spread offense vs our Stand n Veg. You are saying Finley Barry and Bowen are incapable of putting up double figures? I say poppy , that is Pops non offense all the way.

How is it Pop's fault Bowen couldn't make his avg?

Barry scored 0.5 pts less... wow. That made the difference right there.

You tell me how Nazr accomplished what he did last years playoffs and then tell me how for a fact he/Nazr would have sucked this year. We just don't know.

You mean, why did Nazr suck the whole year?
Nazr Mohammed avg 6.2 ppg, playing 17.4 minutes during the regular season. Which isn't bad, but it's not great either.

The biggest problem is, who would Nazr guard? Tim is already guarding Diop or Dampier...

And you can't move Tim to Dirk or Tim would foul out.

I'm telling you, Spurs would have lost in 5 if Nazr played 30 minutes a night, and then even I'd be calling for Pop's head...

[ChumpDumper]

The point of this thread is for yout to tell how Dallas lineup was better, so go for it.

Dampier and Diop can play.

There, I did it.

[MadDog73]

Everyone bears some responsibility. The point is, I think, that the difference between the Spurs and Mavericks was a bounce here or there; a rebound, a turnover, a touch foul, a technical foul, a missed layup. There's not enough there to say that one team was clearly better than the other; and there's not enough there to say that the difference was coaching or players -- it was basketball. One team wins and one team loses and sometimes it's just a matter of a bounce. The Mavericks won and props to them for making their own bounces at times. The Spurs had it in their own hands -- largely, I think, because Popovich made the right decisions to get them there -- and let it slip away. Hopefully, it will be a learning experience and they'll get that fuel that Popovich thought they needed -- the fuel that fed Detroit during the regular season and the fuel that fed Dallas during the playoff series.

Totally agree. Pop bears some responsibility, of course, but not as much as people like Fabb's are implying.

[Fabbs]

Dampier and Diop can play.

There, I did it.

2/10 on the weak scale.

[ChumpDumper]

2/10 on the weak scale.

10/10 on the truth scale.

Besides, isn't 2/10 on the weak scale pretty strong?

Think about that for awhile.

[strangeweather]

I say you are completely making my point. Dallas spread offense vs our Stand n Veg. You are saying Finley Barry and Bowen are incapable of putting up double figures? I say poppy , that is Pops non offense all the way.
You tell me how Nazr accomplished what he did last years playoffs and then tell me how for a fact he/Nazr would have sucked this year. We just don't know.

So if we had played someone that would have been a complete non-factor on offense and given Dallas an easy way to double-team Tim, suddenly we would have become an offensive dynamo? How does that work, exactly?

[FromWayDowntown]

10/10 on the truth scale.

Besides, isn't 2/10 on the weak scale pretty strong?

Think about that for awhile.

You must be using the old standard form weak scale. On the new western orthodox weak scale, 2/10 is pretty weak.

[MadDog73]

You must be using the old standard form weak scale. On the new western orthodox weak scale, 2/10 is pretty weak.

[Fabbs]

How is it Pop's fault Bowen couldn't make his avg?

Barry scored 0.5 pts less... wow. That made the difference right there.

You mean, why did Nazr suck the whole year?
Nazr Mohammed avg 6.2 ppg, playing 17.4 minutes during the regular season.

I'm telling you, Spurs would have lost in 5 in Nazr played 30 minutes a night, and then even I'd be calling for Pop's head...

Bowen had how many shot attempts per game? The times Dirk was guarding Bowen run some O by Bowen. Having Tim or Tony hold the ball for 10 seconds while the rest stood in place is what happened 50% of the time. Have Tim hit Bowen/Manu/etc on some cuts. Dumping it in to Tim does not mean the other 4 have to stand. You tell me how D' Antoni took Phx to 6 games vs Dallas and had the lead 3 quarters in of Game 6? Better personell? Please.

Barrys stats 1st half vs 2nd half of season. True its not Pops fault when Barry goes into lockup mode on O. Or is it? Was he encourgaged to shoot more. Were Spurs encouraged to fast break more? When we h-a-d to in the game 7 haltime deficit, how did that go. Wasn't stand n veg 4 down that's for damn sure.

Aggie Fan posted the stats on Nazr starting/playing the latter part of the season when we caught and passed Dallas. 27-6 or something like that. He sure did suck.

I'm well aware we still almost won and in the final seconds it was GNob and the Zebras that finished us.

[ChumpDumper]

We don't use the goddam metric system here, FWD!

[Fabbs]

So if we had played someone that would have been a complete non-factor on offense and given Dallas an easy way to double-team Tim, suddenly we would have become an offensive dynamo? How does that work, exactly?

have no idea what you are suggesting. If you think Manu Finley Barry and yes Bowen cannot score more on cut passes from set or doubled Tim, oh well. Jeff Van Gundy will agree with you.

[strangeweather]

Bowen had how many shot attempts per game? ...

In summary: Tim lost the series for us by dominating on offense and taking too many high-percentage shots instead of passing out of the single-team?

[MadDog73]

Bowen had how many shot attempts per game? The times Dirk was guarding Bowen run some O by Bowen. Having Tim or Tony hold the ball for 10 seconds while the rest stood in place is what happened 50% of the time. Have Tim hit Bowen/Manu/etc on some cuts. Dumping it in to Tim does not mean the other 4 have to stand.

I'm pretty damn sure Pop would agree with you there.

You tell me how D' Antoni took Phx to 6 games vs Dallas and had the lead 3 quarters in of Game 6? Better personell? Please.

Is that true? If so, they must match-up better. Simple as that.

Barrys stats 1st half vs 2nd half of season. True its not Pops fault when Barry goes into lockup mode on O. Or is it? Was he encourgaged to shoot more. Were Spurs encouraged to fast break more? When we h-a-d to in the game 7 haltime deficit, how did that go. Wasn't stand n veg 4 down that's for damn sure.

And Pop was pretty upset the way the players played in the first half. But, of course, with all Pop hater's, it's the Coaches fault when we lose, but the players win despite the Coach in victories....

Aggie Fan posted the stats on Nazr starting/playing the latter part of the season when we caught and passed Dallas. 27-6 or something like that. He sure did suck.

Oh, I'm sorry, did we play all those games against Dallas? Reg season, esp against other teams, mean . Again, tell me who Nazr guards? Dirk?

I'm well aware we still almost won and in the final seconds it was GNob and the Zebras that finished us.

So, it's Pop's fault... no, Manu's, no the Refs, no the weather.

Make up you mind please, whose fault was it we lost?

Could it be (gasp), the Mavs fault we lost?

I don't know, that could be possible.

[strangeweather]

have no idea what you are suggesting. If you think Manu Finley Barry and yes Bowen cannot score more on cut passes from set or doubled Tim, oh well.

You're the one who said we needed more offense in the same post you were pimping Nazr for more playing time.

Also, Tim saw more single teams than he's seen in years in that series.

[ChumpDumper]

At any rate, I'm impressed we did as well as we did. We're one player away from being a top small ball team as well as a traditional team.

[SPARKY]

At any rate, I'm impressed we did as well as we did. We're one player away from being a top small ball team as well as a traditional team.

No kidding. Starting Michael Finley at the 4 and they lost the series in OT of a Game 7?