NO. That is the entirely wrong approach. Small Ball has never won an NBA championship and won't any time in the near future. What we need is to be healthy across the board (Manu and TP were not even close to 100% in the PO), and to play our ball control defensive game that made the Spurs Champions in the first place. Not going big when small ball was giving up 110 or so a game was absolutely crazy and that was the MAIN reason why there was no 2006 Championship for the Spurs. Give Howard all of the outside shots he wants - he will not keep taking them (Dirk will cry murder if he doesn't get his shots) and the ones he does take he will make only about 40%. The big lineup would not have given up all of the dunks and layups that the small ball gave up. HORRIBLE coaching job from a usually great coach this post season is the reason the Spurs lost.
While my gut response is the same as yours, obviously Pop disagrees, as he made the decision early to go small. And it worked pretty darn well, just not well enough. My guess is, he is figuring on a lot less Shaq stands in the way of future les, and a lot more Dirk and Josh Howard and Dwayne Wade types. Since he's got 3 NBA les, and I've got none, I feel I should defer to his wisdome here.
Pop did not go small because the Mavs were going small. The Mavs aren't small (Dirk is a 7' PF, Dampier/Diop are 7' Centers) - but what makes the matchup bad is that the PF plays mainly a perimeter game while the SF likes to drive and play off the dribble. The Spurs went small because they did not want to put Rasho, Nazr, or Tim on Dirk on the perimeter - which is a good idea because you don't want to leave a superstar shooter wide open all game. Dirk is the star, and if he is wide open the team has no problems with him shooting 60 times a game (and he can make 50 to 60% of wide open shots). What i'm saying is that you can put the extra big on Howard at the SF but tell the big to sag off near the lane to take away any driving angle from Howard. What will happen is that Howard will have a few wide open shots, but he is not nearly the shooter that Dirk is plus since he isnt the superstar there is no way he is taking 40 to 50 shots a game. Dirk would have a fit and the team chemistry would be shot if he did that, and he wouldn't be comfortable with it. Therefore he would make a few, miss a few, but eventually try to drive or would play off to Dirk or the rest of the team. That leaves the Spurs with two bigs near the paint for defense, rebounding, shot blocking, etc. It also makes Dirk guard in the paint on the center while the Spurs are on offense since there is no way that Howard would be on the center. Dirk hates guarding in the post and a good physical center can test him and pound on him down low during the game (hopefully Javtokas can at least do that if he comes over). That will wear on Dirk and help take his legs away for late in the game or series. Or the Mavs will have to go to a bigger lineup to protect him - then the Spurs have them right where they want them. Basically you are giving the Mav's small forward open shots and taking away the dunks and easy layups. Even if Howard shoots 40 to 50%, that is still a lot better than giving Howard, Terry, Stack, and everyone else wide open lanes directly to the basket for 99% FG dunks.
1 postseason affair. Two championships. You do the math.
All fine and dandy as long as the Mavericks don't change anything. To me, it would be much easier to attack the defense you propose (with Rasho and Nazr) than to deal with the small ball approach that Pop took. AJ would have pick and rolled Nazr and Rasho to death to create mismatches that forced them to stop sagging and gave the Mavericks favorable scoring opportunities. Even if AJ didn't do that, it's a fairly easy fix to have Howard drive the ball at (and around) those bigs and either create fouls or create shots for teammates.
The notion that the Spurs could have combatted the Mavericks' smaller lineup with Rasho and Nazr strikes me as borderline ludicrous. I can buy that a team could combat it with bigs, but not with those bigs.
I think the thread maker is talking about an all around player to support Duncan like DRob did.
Parker is offense, he puts good pressure on the ball with his speed on D but honestly he isn't any better than a B for defense.
Manu is about the closest thing to an all around player we got besides TD, but he is up one week and down the next. And he should personally come out next season with something to prove to his team, fans and everybody in general for letting us all down with the foul on Dirk. I know it was an accident but it counted. Even if Dirk made it we are up one with 15 seconds to play heading towards to WCFs.
We owe Duncan more than we could ever give. He can get another 3 rings and it won't be enough. He is that generation player, and in a few years we won't have one anymore.
If that was the intent, they didn't make it clear in the first post. It read like more of a bashing of Tony and Manu.
Beyond that, I agree that it would be nice to have another big man that we could count on consistently.
good post, once duncan teitres it may be the last les the Spurs win in a loooooooooooooooong time
If this is what the thread maker, or anyone else, is hoping for, then give it up now. THERE IS NO OTHER D-ROB OUT THERE. To be had, or not to be had. There just isn't. Who are the best centers in the NBA right now? Shaq - not as athletic, and getting older fast. Yao - no where near as dominant, and never will be. Ben Wallace? Undersized. And those guys aren't available. The others - Rasho, Nazr, Pryzbilla, Magloire, Brad Miller, Elton Brand, etc - are all about equal. Some are better defensively, som are better rebounders, some bring more offense. But none match up athletically well with teams like the Mavs, the Suns, the Clips, and the Kings. And that's why Pop went small, and why he has to strengthen our team when we go small. TD will have to play C a lot more, like it or not. We need a couple younger, more athletic F/C-types to match up well against the Mavs and the Kings, both of whom gave us a hard time. Basically, we need a Robert Horry, only younger.
True. But do you believe that there is a player or players that the Spurs could realistically get right now who would change that? I don't.
This bandwagon will come to a sudden halt when Timmy hangs it up and the frontrunners go scurrying for the next fad-ish team to follow.
Tim, Manu and Parker are a great core to build around, we aren't that far away. I still say injuries to Parker and Manu sidetracked our quest this year. And that can happen any year, but no way are any of these three guys over the hill or done, they got plenty more. We do need to look for someone to replace Bowen, and getting a center who do more than fill up space, to help Tim, but this team is still a front runner.
I don't get why you think that Scola -- who has never played a minute in NBA game -- would be anymore "legit" than the All-Stars that Manu and Tony are. (And just so you know Tony averaged 20+ppg in both playoff series this year ... and that was banged up. And Manu has more will to win than almost anyone in the league.)
If you are just saying the Spurs need another big man, then probably everyone will agree. But to act like Scola is more legit than Tony or Manu is absurd.
The Spurs don't even want him here for his price. And if his price was lower, they'd probably play him off the bench behind Duncan, not next to him.
If you think that the Spurs owe Duncan a more legit #2 man than Manu or Tony, then you should have picked someone like Kobe
Yeah, I was referring to this previous year. But no matter what the Mavs or Suns or whoever end up doing we need to remember that small ball does not bring les. And as for the pick and roll senario above, that is why neither of those would be on Dirk. The pick and roll is designed to free up either the shooter coming off the pick or the person rolling to the basket. If they started running pick and rolls for Howard, play WAY under and take his drive away. A decent big will be able to stop him from attacking the rim, just not from taking the outside shot. So I say let him shoot all he wants. Just keep close enough to keep him 20+ ft out and let him shoot. If he wants to drive, the length of the big (who is sagging enough to not allow him to get past) will cause a very tough shot. And if he does shoot all game then Dirk and Terry are taken out of the game as shooters. Would rather have Howard jack 'em up than either of those two. But anyway, the idea is to turn teams into jump shooters and not let them ram the ball down your throat. Unfortunately neither Horry, Oberto, or Finley were physical enough or long enough at the 4 to defend the rim and clean the glass. I agree we need a more physical center - Rasho and Nazr just didn't cut it.
Again, sag off of Howard with either Nazr or Rasho, and AJ will simply instruct him to attack the rim. As we saw throughout that series, players going to the rack could get to the line with almost any contact. You will not convince me that Nazr or Rasho could stay out of foul trouble if Howard attacked the rim in your scenario; and you can't convince me that Howard would have just settled for jumpers if he had been defended by Nazr or Rasho.
If yours was a plausible defensive scheme -- one that would ensure that a player becomes a jump shooter -- why wouldn't teams playing against say, Cleveland, just use a big to sag off of Lebron James and dare him to win the game with jumpshots? (I'm not trying to compare Howard and Lebron, but I am trying to make a point). Obviously, Lebron has his nights where he makes a great percentage from the perimeter, but if that scheme is so certain to work, why wouldn't teams just dare him to shoot over a sagging big man rather than using a wing, knowing that his drive has been taken away? Seriously. I'd be curious to read your answer to that question.
td deserves a real PG~
Here we go again.
Man, it's moments like this one when I really miss David Robinson.
I don't get why you think that Scola -- who has never played a minute in NBA game -- would be anymore "legit" than the All-Stars that Manu and Tony are. (And just so you know Tony averaged 20+ppg in both playoff series this year ... and that was banged up. And Manu has more will to win than almost anyone in the league.)
If you are just saying the Spurs need another big man, then probably everyone will agree. But to act like Scola is more legit than Tony or Manu is absurd.
The Spurs don't even want him here for his price. And if his price was lower, they'd probably play him off the bench behind Duncan, not next to him.
If you think that the Spurs owe Duncan a more legit #2 man than Manu or Tony, then you should have picked someone like Kobe
I say Scola because Duncan wouldn't have to carry the ENTIRE load down low and get all the rbs
it was very sad to watch the SPURS, the in SPURS, get out rebounded during the entire playoffs. Duncan getting 12-15rbs a night still wasn't enough and there isn't any who can grab rbs. Rasho was good for maybe 4-5 at most and he's gone. Spurs don't even have a damn center. Bowen is old and isn't good for rbs either
Wallce is off the market but we have a 26 year old PF waiting for the SPurs to bu his contract
Yup its MVP numbers if you ask me
TD deserves a big man harder than toilet paper.
the spurs do owe it to duncan to put a real supporting cast around him. as much as spurs fans suck ownership he's in a pretty ty position.
I don't think this Spurs system will work anymore. I really don't.
It certainly doesn't work when you don't use it.
Good points, but answer this question - wouldn't you rather have Howard trying to attack the rim against a 7' with some shot blocking (and shot changing) ability than to get a free ride to the rim like he (and every other Mav) did against the Spurs this year? If the big is sagging near the lane and giving up ground then there is no way Howard will get to the rim without being severely challenged. You would HOPE that he keeps trying to attack the rim because a decent defensive center can change shots at the rim. And you know that Howard (like 99% of the NBA) has no mid range jumper. If he puts it on the bounce he's going to the rim. If the refs start calling BS on your center then you change the scheme. You can't do that with Lebron because:
1) He usually plays SG and even as a SF is a much better shooter than Howard will ever hope to be, and
2) Lebron is the epitome of SUPERSTAR. The Cavs dont mind if Lebron gets the majority of the shots.
Howard is not the Superstar. Dirk is. Terry is more of a Superstar than Howard at this point. Do you really think that Dirk, Avery, or anyone else in the Mavs organization is going to put up with Howard jacking up 40 shots a game - no matter how wide open he is? I am not saying that this is the ONLY scheme you use throughout the entire series, but it can be very effective if used in a combination with going small and switching matchups. The problem this post-season against the Mavs is that Pop went small all of the time. He never went big after game 1 (if he did and I missed it - it was only for a minute or two). He kept throwing the same scheme at the Mavs, and the Mavs took advantage of it by attacking the rim and pounding the boards. Horry, Finley, or anyone else they put at the 4 stood no chance of rebounding against the Mavs bigger lineup (remember that Dirk is a 7' as well as Mbenga/Diop/Dampier). That exclusively small scheme was giving up 110 ppg, and no serious adjustments were made to change things up.
One big positive side effect of the bigger lineup against the Mavs is that it makes Dirk guard the center since they will not put Howard or Stack on a 7' guy and will not put Dirk on Timmy for more than a couple of possessions at the end of the game. That is where having a decent offensive center option can work - it will make Dirk defend on the post while getting pounded and worn down. That guy hates being on the block, and more than likely the Mavs will have to sub him more to keep him fresh and to better match up with the Spurs if the center can abuse him for a few consecutive possessions. Make the Mavs play Spurs ball, not the way it was this year. Even with no changes and a small lineup the Spurs were a couple of points here and there from winning the series. Don't you think some of the adjustments listed here could have helped make the difference in the series?
Peter Holt/Pop "Tim, we have no center so we are going to need you to grab at least 15rbs a game, and Bonner has never played D in his life so you will also need to average about 5blks. If you do all this we have a chance not to get killed on defense"
Tim Duncan "you must have some plan this offseason!!!"
Pop "yeah, just to watch all the players we would like to have sign to other teams"
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