Butler will be Isaiah's Folly

[timvp]

Here are the Spurs' American born picks over the years:

2001 Bryan Bracey - The big story when he got drafted was how he dominated a Michael Finley charity game in Chicago. Turns out he sucked so bad he got cut from the summer league team.

2000 Chris Carrawell - The Spurs flew this guy in first class, held a press conference and gave him guaranteed money. Turns out guy was a super scrub who got cut early into training camp. He never played in an NBA game. Michael Redd was still on the board when the Spurs picked Carrawell

1998 Derrick Dial - Spurs hyped up this kid when they drafted him. Turns out he was a small shooting guard who couldn't really shoot. In 2000, the final cut in training camp came down to Dial versus Raja Bell. Pop wanted Bell. RC wanted Dial. You know the rest

1995 Corey Alexander - This was Pop's first draft pick as GM. He was so proud of Alexander and compared him to Tim Hardaway. Pop was so giddy about him. Turns out he sucked. Eric Snow or Fred Hoiberg would have been nice



So actually, in the Pop era the Spurs have never drafted an American player who has done anything.

[ShoogarBear]

A fact that has continued to plague this franchise. It's almost as though they've completely ignored domestic talent in favor of the international talent.

Personally, I'm still pissed about them not drafting Josh Howard preferring instead to trade out of the first round of the 2003 draft.

Don't get me wrong, they've been great at finding and locating talent across the globe. However, they should strive to do well at both.

Especially now since a) other teams have pretty much caught up on international talent evaluation, and b) international players are no longer guaranteed to dance to the Spurs' tune just because they say so.

[ShoogarBear]

That's a pretty sorry list, timvp.

[Mr. Body]

Derrick Dial was Earl Boykins' teammate, right? We all had the "Dial it in From Long Range" slogans ready.

[timvp]

The you say. Stoudamire was an college stud, but a definitely undersized guard who most people had projected for second round, or late first round at best. Thomas got blasted for that pick when it happened.

Exactly. Thomas was laughed at for that pick. Stoudamire had game coming out of college but most said he was a 5'10 shooting guard. Khalid Reeves was oftentimes the point guard of those Arizona teams.

[JamStone]

The you say. Stoudamire was an college stud, but a definitely undersized guard who most people had projected for second round, or late first round at best. Thomas got blasted for that pick when it happened.

I know people questioned Stoudamire because of his height. But, I don't recall Thomas getting blasted for taking Damon. I'd love to read articles that say as much. Because, where the Raptors picked in that draft, #7, I don't remember Stoudamire being a questionable pick. Now, maybe Toronto fans hoped for Ed O'Bannon. But, acknowledging that Zeke wanted to start building with a point guard, who really blasted him for taking Stoudamire, and what exactly did they say about it being a bad pick?

[timvp]

I know people questioned Stoudamire because of his height. But, I don't recall Thomas getting blasted for taking Damon. I'd love to read articles that say as much. Because, where the Raptors picked in that draft, #7, I don't remember Stoudamire being a questionable pick. Now, maybe Toronto fans hoped for Ed O'Bannon. But, acknowledging that Zeke wanted to start building with a point guard, who really blasted him for taking Stoudamire, and what exactly did they say about it being a bad pick?

Seeing as that was 1995, it'd be pretty hard to find any articles on it. But Thomas was ripped pretty good. Most everyone said he way overpicked Stoudamire just because he wanted a point guard.

[JamStone]

I don't buy it. I was still living in Detroit at the time. I was following what Zeke was doing. The only thing that even remotely corroborates what you guys are saying is that the Toronto fans were hoping for Ed O'Bannon. But, fans don't always know what they're talking about. I'm talking about NBA analysts and sportswriters "blasting" Zeke for the pick. I don't recall it. And, I question that it happened. Again, I was excited about the Raptors franchise. I even have cousins in Missausaga, Toronto, and they were pretty hyped about Damon.

Again, maybe some people thought Isiah should have taken Ed O'Bannon. But, thinking he should have selected another player does not mean he was getting "BLASTED" for selecting Damon.

[Mr. Body]

Damon Stoudamire and Ed O'Bannon. What a year that was.

[JamStone]

Damon Stoudamire and Ed O'Bannon. What a year that was.

Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Antonio McDyess, and Joe Smith were top five picks in that class. It went pretty downhill after that.

That's my point. It wasn't a great or deep draft class in 1995. At the #7 pick, there were not really any great alternatives to Damon Stoudamire other than maybe Ed O'Bannon. So, again, I question anyone who claims Isiah was really blasted for picking Damon.

[timvp]

Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Jerry Stackhouse, Antonio McDyess, and Joe Smith were top five picks in that class. It went pretty downhill after that.

That's my point. It wasn't a great or deep draft class in 1995. At the #7 pick, there were not really any great alternatives to Damon Stoudamire other than maybe Ed O'Bannon. So, again, I question anyone who claims Isiah was really blasted for picking Damon.

Again I would be able to point out the articles to you but this happened over a decade ago. I don't think ESPN.com even existed yet.

But if you watched the draft on TV, you would have seen the commentators blast Isiah for the pick. Not much more I can tell you unless I can link a recording of the draft from 1995.

[whottt]

The pick of Stoudamire over O'Bannon was panned by just about every one.

[ShoogarBear]

It's easy in retrospect to say it wasn't that deep of draft, but at the time there were a lot of players projected to go before Stoudamire.

Corliss Williamson and Randolph Childress definitely. Almost definitely Bob Sura, Alan Henderson, Shawn Respert. Probably also Brent Barry. These are just the ones that I'm pretty confident about; I'm sure there were others.

I doubt it would be hard to find references to the pick as "surprising" if there was some way of finding 1995 media links.

[Spurminator]

FWIW, the scout on this page had Damon projected as a mid-First Round pick.

http://www.ibiblio.org/craig/draft/1.../scout/pg.html

[GhostofAlfrederickHughes]

ALSO, how will it be Isiah's folly if Jackie Butler becomes a very good player for the Spurs? The first post on this thread specifically states how Butler will get tutelage from Tim Duncan, get savvy veteran pointers from Robert Horry, and maybe an occassional clinic from David Robinson. Yeah, I would agree that could really make Jackie Butler a very good player. But, Jackie Butler WOULD NOT get those things if he stays a New York Knick. So, under those cir stances, unless Isiah traded for Duncan and Horry and hired David Robinsons as a developmental coach, it really wouldn't be a folly by Isiah at all. He doesn't have the resources that the Spurs have to really help with Butler's development.

The folly is that Thomas took on so many bloated contracts (not to mention bloated players like Jerome James) that he is now stuck in a situation where he can't keep a potential diamond-in-the-rough like Butler.

[Mr. Body]

Isiah has already found his next plaything in Jeffries. He has to make a splash in free agency somehow. This is a good sign he's forgotten about his old toy Butler and moved on.

[strangeweather]

The other saving grace for the Spurs over the years besides the international guys has been their ability to find low-end free agents that nobody else was all that wild for and turn them into solid contributors. Bowen, Stephen Jackson, Malik, guys like that.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Here are the Spurs' American born picks over the years:

2001 Bryan Bracey - The big story when he got drafted was how he dominated a Michael Finley charity game in Chicago. Turns out he sucked so bad he got cut from the summer league team.

2000 Chris Carrawell - The Spurs flew this guy in first class, held a press conference and gave him guaranteed money. Turns out guy was a super scrub who got cut early into training camp. He never played in an NBA game. Michael Redd was still on the board when the Spurs picked Carrawell

1998 Derrick Dial - Spurs hyped up this kid when they drafted him. Turns out he was a small shooting guard who couldn't really shoot. In 2000, the final cut in training camp came down to Dial versus Raja Bell. Pop wanted Bell. RC wanted Dial. You know the rest

1995 Corey Alexander - This was Pop's first draft pick as GM. He was so proud of Alexander and compared him to Tim Hardaway. Pop was so giddy about him. Turns out he sucked. Eric Snow or Fred Hoiberg would have been nice



So actually, in the Pop era the Spurs have never drafted an American player who has done anything.

Usually the Spurs pick at the crapshoot point of the draft anyway. If the Spurs had ever had a decent pick during those years...say a number one overall[/dream on]....well, then, I'd bet they could have drafted an American player who could of done something substantial. Heck, even if the guy wasn't necessarily a resident of the continental U.S. it still would of counted as "American".












Too bad Pop and the Spurs never had that chance.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

^^^ Of course a 3rd grader could have successfully picked #1 that year.

[Jamtas#2]

Yeah what lousy drafts the spurs have had. They must have been been one of the worst NBA teams during this time. What? Only 3 les? Pop doesn't know what he's doing.
Show me a team that is consistently getting top talent in the drafts and I'll show you a team that keeps losing.

[ShoogarBear]

^missed the point

[CaptainLate]

The guy's 21 years old. Give him a couple of years developing his post moves under the tutelage of Duncan, a few pointers from a savvy vet like Horry, and maybe the occassional 'big man' clinic from the Admiral (yes, I know Robinson wasn't a post-up center, but he knows defensive positioning, etc.). Popovich knows the guy has a good work ethic after talking it over with Larry Brown.
Trust me, folks, if they get him, it'll be the Knicks---not the Spurs---who are sorry.

Add Mahimi to the mix and we've got the new twin towers for 10+ yrs (vice the unfortunate few that DRob and Tim had together). Yes, the Knicks will be sorry...but the rest of the teams in the league will be pissed at how the Knicks handed the Spurs another 1st pick "lottery" ball -- AGAIN.

[CaptainLate]

The other saving grace for the Spurs over the years besides the international guys has been their ability to find low-end free agents that nobody else was all that wild for and turn them into solid contributors. Bowen, Stephen Jackson, Malik, guys like that.

Hey, it doesn't take too much FO genius to find solid contributors when you have DRob and Tim anchoring the middle. That's why only a tweak or two is needed each year. But if we get Butler, and Mahimi works out, that is genius.

[T Park]

1995 Corey Alexander - This was Pop's first draft pick as GM. He was so proud of Alexander and compared him to Tim Hardaway. Pop was so giddy about him. Turns out he sucked. Eric Snow or Fred Hoiberg would have been nice

Id say Cory Alexander's a ude did him in more than his talent.

2000 Chris Carrawell - The Spurs flew this guy in first class, held a press conference and gave him guaranteed money. Turns out guy was a super scrub who got cut early into training camp. He never played in an NBA game. Michael Redd was still on the board when the Spurs picked Carrawell

Was also a big name coming out of college and lauded as a great pick.

The freakin draft is a crapshoot.


Good lord.

[Jamtas#2]

Ok. Seeing as how the draft is a world draft and not just american talent, it is not a necessary criticism. If we were only able to draft from US players then fine, but it's not. Seeing seeing as how we were able to draft a player like Tony Parker at the end of the 1st round and a Ginobili in the 2nd shows that we have had recent success. Our recent draft picks haven't either played or played enough yet to be graded. List me a team that has had draft success often and translated that into a great team and I'll see where this is something to get so worried about. We have had good drafts and bad drafts. But our good picks have been really good and helped us to win les. I'm sure happy that Isah has been able to draft such high quality all-stars who don't help their teams win championships. If I'm missing the point, please tell me why I as a Spurs fan should be so upset.