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I agree, this guy got the skills. Just needs the tutelage.
Well, just another in a SERIES of follies, really.
The guy's 21 years old. Give him a couple of years developing his post moves under the tutelage of Duncan, a few pointers from a savvy vet like Horry, and maybe the occassional 'big man' clinic from the Admiral (yes, I know Robinson wasn't a post-up center, but he knows defensive positioning, etc.). Popovich knows the guy has a good work ethic after talking it over with Larry Brown.
Trust me, folks, if they get him, it'll be the Knicks---not the Spurs---who are sorry.
I agree, this guy got the skills. Just needs the tutelage.
then why dont we lock him up for 6 years at 2mill a seasoninstead of the 2 yrs we offered
It's easy to dump on Isiah, but the fact is when it comes to picking out good young talent, almost nobody else in the NBA has as good a record.
If you're going to trash Isiah, do it based on facts, not randomly. His gluttony for overrated, high-contract veterans is what does him in.
Last edited by ShoogarBear; 07-18-2006 at 08:18 AM. Reason: spell Isiah right
True. I wouldn't mind Isaiah scouting for the Spurs at all. But I'd want him nowhere near the pocketbook.
It's true that people shouldn't dump on Isiah. "Judge not, or you too will be judged"...but we should also remember that "by their fruit you will recognize them. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit."
Everyone has things in their life they are not proud of, but this article had some interesting things brought to light quoting some previous employees and associates of Isiah.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...p-329665c.html
I wasn't defending anything about Isiah other than his ability to pick talent.
Isiah may have an eye for talent, but the man needs to gain some humility and learn the limits of his abilities. He SUCKS ASS as a coach. He needs to back to off the coaching and let the coach he hires work with the talent he gives him. Or else, he'll run himself right out of the NBA business.
Regardless I'm rooting for Thomas to have a kickass year. I'm not too keen on the already stacked Bulls getting a top three pick off the Knicks in '07.
I know ShoogarBear. I quoted you just to follow the flow of conversation and not really as a rebuttal.
Well, two days to go. We'll see if they match or not.
Channing Frye, Trevor Ariza, Nate Robinson.... am I missing anyone??... maybe someone from his days as a Pacer FO associate....
Isaiah has eye for talent... true.
But he is a sucker for bad contracts...
Stephon Marbury
Jerome James
Quentin Richardson
Eddy Curry
Jalen Rose
Steve Francis
Malik Rose
That's about half a roster's worth of bad contracts... and now he wants Keynon Martin's???
Sigh! seems like an eternity...
We may see some fireworks in the next couple days, Denver or New York involved in a big trade. That would indicate which direction they're going.
with the Knicks
David Lee
Jackie Butler
with the Raptors
Damon Stoudamire
Marcus Camby
Tracy McGrady
Vince Carter (traded for after the Raptors drafted Antawn Jamison)
Damon Stoudamire Tracy MaGrady....both of those picks went against the conventional wisdom of the other GM's around the league...as well as the "draft experts".
maybe someone from his days as a Pacer FO associate....
Isaiah has eye for talent... true.
But he is a sucker for bad contracts...
Stephon Marbury
Jerome James
Quentin Richardson
Eddy Curry
Jalen Rose
Steve Francis
Malik Rose
That's about half a roster's worth of bad contracts... and now he wants Keynon Martin's???
The Knicks can(could) afford to take on those contracts...
You can't rebuild the conventional way in NY when you have the leagues highest average ticket price...not to mention the Yankees...it's NY.
And I don't see how anyone can say Isiah didn't smoke us on the Nazr trade. He had Nazr pegged as being non-essential long before the Spurs figured it out....and he got 2#1 picks in addition to an equally talented player in Malik.
Honestly...if we'd just traded Malik for Nazr Isiah still would have gotten the better end of the deal in terms of on court contributions and desire to win.
BTW...Isiah's problem is not mismanaging payroll...
It's being totally unconcerned with the character and at ude of the players he puts together...
In fact he almost seems to have an affinity for the guys with bad at udes...
Perhaps that's because that's what he once was himself?
The difference between he and the bad tudes he trades for though...
He always wanted to win. The guys he trades for generally seemed to be more concerned with numbers.
He also figured out that Charlie Ward sucked way before the Spurs did.
I've never seen Isiah make a bad decision with regards to giving up on a player either.
The guy does know talent..without a doubt.
When the playing field is level, Isiah is probably the best in the league at picking talent. The Spurs (RC/Pop/Presti) are the best at finding players around the globe but Isiah runs circles around them in terms of known talent.
He picked a Rookie of the Year at 7 (Damon Stoudamire). He picked a potential Hall of Famer at 9 (Tracy McGrady). He picked Marcus Camby, who would have gone down as a great pick if he wasn't a china doll.
In his first draft with the Knicks, his first draft pick was Trevor Ariza at 43. Ariza was projected by many to go undrafted. Additionally, the Spurs picked Viktor Sanikidze at 42 that year. Turns out Ariza was a huge steal and a player the Spurs would love to have.
Last year he picked Channing Frye, Nate Robinson and David Lee out of the first round. That's a heck of a grab, especially considering that all three were considered reaches.
The Spurs, on the other hand, can't draft domestic talent at all. Who was the last American player they drafted who amounted to anything? If you don't count Tim Duncan, you might have to go all the way back to Sean Elliott 15+ years ago
Isiah did not draft Vince Carter. He was already gone from the organization. He may have expressed interested in Vince Carter before he left, but it wasn't like Vince Carter was a stretch at #5 in his draft pick anyway.
And, Damon Stoudamire was a stud coming out of college. He was not an unconventional pick at #7 of the 1995 draft class.
I do agree that Isiah has been pretty strong identifying talent, even later in the draft. He also spotted out guys like James Jones and Trevor Ariza in the second round. The one draft pick that people questioned him about that turned out to be a good pick in retrospect was Fred Jones in 2002. He turned out better than other players so-called experts claimed he should have taken like Kareem Rush or Casey Jacobsen.
So, I agree for the most part that Isiah has been very good identifying young talent. Just wanted to clarify a few of those picks.
ALSO, how will it be Isiah's folly if Jackie Butler becomes a very good player for the Spurs? The first post on this thread specifically states how Butler will get tutelage from Tim Duncan, get savvy veteran pointers from Robert Horry, and maybe an occassional clinic from David Robinson. Yeah, I would agree that could really make Jackie Butler a very good player. But, Jackie Butler WOULD NOT get those things if he stays a New York Knick. So, under those cir stances, unless Isiah traded for Duncan and Horry and hired David Robinsons as a developmental coach, it really wouldn't be a folly by Isiah at all. He doesn't have the resources that the Spurs have to really help with Butler's development.
Last edited by JamStone; 07-18-2006 at 09:51 AM.
Balkman looks far from a bust. High energy player in the Ariza mold.
And yes, the Spurs suck at drafting Americans.
The best thing for Butler at this point, really, would be to go to the Spurs. Basketball-wise, his development would stall in New York.
I couldn't remember if Isiah was still there or not, but actually the Raptors picked Jamison, then GS picked Carter with the next pick, and then they worked a trade. So the Raptors got the better player, plus (I presume) something else.
The you say. Stoudamire was an college stud, but a definitely undersized guard who most people had projected for second round, or late first round at best. Thomas got blasted for that pick when it happened.And, Damon Stoudamire was a stud coming out of college. He was not an unconventional pick at #7 of the 1995 draft class.
The only other criticism I could make for Thomas' draft is that he doesn't trade down when he could still get the same players (i.e., Balkman). I think his ego ("later on I'm going to be able to say what a great pick this was") gets in the way of good business sense.
not getting Balkman later was a gaffe, true
Mardy Collins hasn't been doing much
The Spurs, on the other hand, can't draft domestic talent at all. Who was the last American player they drafted who amounted to anything? If you don't count Tim Duncan, you might have to go all the way back to Sean Elliott 15+ years ago
A fact that has continued to plague this franchise. It's almost as though they've completely ignored domestic talent in favor of the international talent.
Personally, I'm still pissed about them not drafting Josh Howard preferring instead to trade out of the first round of the 2003 draft.
Don't get me wrong, they've been great at finding and locating talent across the globe. However, they should strive to do well at both.
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