Vince Young signs $58 million deal

[Mr Dio]

I'm still trying to find what (2) BCS National Championship games that Leinart won.

The BCS Nat'l Championship game does pit the #1 & #2 rated BCS teams vs each other to play & determine a champion. Which (2) of these games did USC win again?

[johngateswhiteley]

Does your gay ass say ANYTHING that hasn't been said on espn.com a million times already? You're such a generic asshole.

Like when you bring up Bush being more of a sure thing than Young in a ing Bush thread. You are worthless.

...i don't know, i don't watch espn that much smoke....you tell me. i am just spitting logic at you, and from the espn stuff i have seen, most seem to like vy and many think he will do well. so i have no idea what you are referring to.

Dio-
...your schtick is old man. Leinart won two national championships....go look at the record books and what goes down in history that EVERYONE else will remember. maybe not some people in Texas, but i don't give a about that and i am sure neither does Leinart....

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Saying he won two championships is legit, however, only one of those championships was undisputed, while the first one was divided, in the dictionary sense of the word.

[scott]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.

[johngateswhiteley]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.

...now thats what i am talking about. how come nobody else can see this?

[young_prosecutor]

Vince is innocent in my book

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Good deal for Vince, in three years he'll be the league's highest paid WR.

Possibly. What I don't get is why we haven't heard any talk of him possibly being a combo player. Would he be the first to do this? He could run plays from the QB position, or put him at receiver, or put him at running back. I wonder if that's ever been done by any nfl player before.

[Mr Dio]

Dio-
...your schtick is old man. Leinart won two national championships....go look at the record books and what goes down in history that EVERYONE else will remember. maybe not some people in Texas, but i don't give a about that and i am sure neither does Leinart....

Translation---
Dio, I don't have any comeback as to how many BCS National Championships Matt won & I can't dispute it with logic.

[Mr Dio]

...now thats what i am talking about. how come nobody else can see this?

Well, let's see.....

#1---We have our eyesight.
#2---We saw the Rose Bowl(s)
#3---We aren't still pissed about the Condoms taking it up the ass from UT.
#4---We loved seeing (2) HTrophy winners NOT measuring up to a runner-up.
#5---Hatred of VY is so old & shows one's immaturity.

[Beer is Good]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.

[Holmes_Fans]

Vince Young is gonna suck in the nfl because his wonderlic score was the same or high as

Randall Cunningham, quarterback — 15
# Jim Kelly, quarterback — 15
# Dan Marino, quarterback — 15
# Terry Bradshaw, quarterback — 15
# Neil O'Donnell, quarterback — 13
# Donovan McNabb, quarterback — 12

and within 5 of
# Michael Vick, quarterback — 20
# Vinny Testaverde, quarterback — 17
# Antwaan Randle El, wide receiver (former college quarterback) — 17
# Aaron Brooks, quarterback — 16


Yep vince is an idiot because he got a higher score than some of the greatest QB's ever.

[scott]

Possibly. What I don't get is why we haven't heard any talk of him possibly being a combo player. Would he be the first to do this? He could run plays from the QB position, or put him at receiver, or put him at running back. I wonder if that's ever been done by any nfl player before.

Cordell is the only guy I can think of off the top of my head. I don't think Vince could get it done at RB. He's too big and not fast enough to break through the tiny holes that open up for NFL RBs for fractions of a second at a time. Vince is an effective scrambler in wide open space with DBs and LBs dropped back in coverage. You hand the ball off to him for any kind of dive, off tackle, or pitch play and the dude would get killed in the backfield.

At WR, however, he'll be able to use his natural talent and size to his advantage - and his speed (which isn't all that great in terms of WRs) won't be an issue.

[scott]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.

Vince's arm isn't the strongest I've seen either, and he has a fraction of Leinart's accuracy. I don't think VYwill be a bad NFL QB because he's "dumb". I think he'll be a bad NFL QB because I've never seen him make a series of NFL caliber throws and he has shown problems will making the right reads.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I don't think so. That doesn't mean Leinart will be a good pro either. I think he has an advantage over Vince because of what he has to work with in Arizona... but put VY in Arizona and Leinart in Tennessee and I'd give VY the advantage.

I think this will turn out to be a huge BUST QB class.

[Mr Dio]

What were the %'s of Matt's & VY's completed passes these past 2 yrs?

[Mr Dio]

People have the misconception that you have to be very intelligent to be a NFL Quarterback. Not True. You have to be very intelligent in terms of NFL FOOTBALL schemes and strategies, not in terms of natural intelligence that, say, Mensa would measure. Dan Marino scored the same as VY (2nd time) on the wonderlick (which is a stupid, stupid test that doesn't have anything to do with football). Dan Marino isn't a brilliant guy. Many of us are light years ahead of Marino in terms of intelligence, but Marino is light years ahead of us all in terms of pure football talent at the QB position. Best QB stat wise who ever lived. Now, I don't think VY will be in the same regards as Marino, but don't underestimate his ability, football intelligence, and sheer willingness to do whatever possible to win. Joey H. is an intelligent guy who isn't a winner. Joey H. doesn't have the tools or intangibles that VY does. I see VY doing very well in the NFL.

As for Leinart, his problem is that his shoulder is suspect and he throws some of the ugliest balls I've seen in a while from a top flight QB. The guy isn't half the talent that Carson is and doesn't have the arm cannon that he'll need in the NFL. His wounded ducks got things done against the Fresno States, Notre Dames, and Oregons of the world, but any decent NFL corner or safety will gobble those up in a hurry. His margin for error is extremely slim and his timing and release are going to have to improve exponentially to even begin to make up for his throwing troubles.

We have someone with intelligence!
Very nice post sir.

If only more posters had your sense of realism. Seriously, just because a player went to a certain school doesn't mean squat. I wish you could teach a couple of other people how to post with prudent realism. Not fantasy world crush on a player-ism.

[Mr Dio]

For the 2005 season
===============
VY----- 65.2%
Matt--- 65.7%

Yeah, I can see where some might think that VY isn't accurate.
Maybe they should open their eyes now.

[Holmes_Fans]

VY led the nation in passing effenciency at the end of the regular season aswell.

[johngateswhiteley]

vy may be dumb, but that has nothing to do with my argument...much as Scotts. vy was a wonderful college football player and belongs on any list of some of the best football qb's of all time, i have nothing against him as an nfl prospect. i just don't think he'll amount to anything for the following reasons:

1. vy is slower than vick, no way he is going to outrun players in the nfl and he is not as quick
2. vy arm is no more accurate than vick's from what i can see and and his arm strength is probably comparable
3. vy has no nfl qualities that i saw in his college play

...and vick sucks. but vy is a winner, i'll give him that, but without the necessary tools he will not be able to get it done. i don't care if he is smart or not.

as for Leinart, his arm strength is fine and he is accurate as ...he'll be fine.

[Mr Dio]

#1---Matt's arm strength is seriously lacking.

#2---Matt gets rattled easily & can't keep his head in a tough game ala 2006 Rose Bowl. His own coach didn't trust his decision making with the biggest game in the past decade on the line.

#3---When Matt plays on the road with a slight gusty wind that VY would be able to handle Matt will throw up a wounded duck.

#4---TEN, NYJ, OAK & DET all saw the obvious, that after VY there wasn't a top 10 QB.

#5---AZ will always be AZ & that was evident when they wasted a pick that high on Matt who is an awesome value in the 20-32 range. Top 10?, hardly.

#6---Head-to-Head VY carried his team & succeeded. Matt flopped like many of his passes in a 3MPH wind.

#7---Vick is very fast & is knocked down with a 5MPH wind. VY isn't, shredded the USC D like it was nada. Try apples to apples next time.

#8---VY finshed less than 1% behind Matt in completions.

#9---VY had more TOTAL O than Matt.

#10---VY had more TDs than Matt...38 to 34.

#11---VY had a BTTER Yds/Attmpt than Matt in Passing AND Rushing. (That's gotta sting!)

#12---VY 6'5" 230 BEFORE any NFL strength training. Vick 6' 215 AFTER apprx 5 seasons. Try apples to apples. A very basic concept it is.

[Holmes_Fans]

Vick = Athlete who happens to play QB
Young = Quarterback who is also an athlete

Young threw twice the passes his final year than Vick did and had a higher completion %

Vick was always run first, throw later
Young was pass then run if neccasary. I know most of you have only seen highlights of VY running, but most of his runs were designed and he rarely scrambled except for the RB game.


Scott, how is VY not any good at making reads? There entire offense is based on a shotgun read play. He was obviously good enough to hand it off at the right time for 4 RB's to have 5+ ypc. Would of had atleast 1 other 1,000 yard rusher if the runs weren't split between 3 people.

[Beer is Good]

vy may be dumb, but that has nothing to do with my argument...much as Scotts. vy was a wonderful college football player and belongs on any list of some of the best football qb's of all time, i have nothing against him as an nfl prospect. i just don't think he'll amount to anything for the following reasons:

1. vy is slower than vick, no way he is going to outrun players in the nfl and he is not as quick
2. vy arm is no more accurate than vick's from what i can see and and his arm strength is probably comparable
3. vy has no nfl qualities that i saw in his college play

...and vick sucks. but vy is a winner, i'll give him that, but without the necessary tools he will not be able to get it done. i don't care if he is smart or not.

as for Leinart, his arm strength is fine and he is accurate as ...he'll be fine.

Comparing VY to Vick is weak. Surely you have watched enough football to know that they are two completely different types of QBs. You are just reaching now. Vick never showed the accuracy (through comp. %), poise, or ability to lead a team to a National Championship. And Vick never played against a stacked team with 2 Heisman winners - a team that many of the analysts were calling the best ever. VY did and triumphed. Is he ready to be a Pro Bowl QB now? Of course not. But with Chow and Fisher leading the way he'll soon develop into a great QB. Just look at how much he improved at Texas in just 2 years (from the end of his freshman year to the end of the Rose Bowl 2006).The guy learns fast and is a BIG guy who can stand the physicality better than a QB like Vick.

Leinart throws ducks. You can't do that in the NFL and get away with it. Pure and simple. He has a lot to improve on - not to say that he can't or won't, but he isn't anywhere near ready to play at this level.

Apples to Apples: VY has the bigger upside at this point.

[scott]

Scott, how is VY not any good at making reads? There entire offense is based on a shotgun read play. He was obviously good enough to hand it off at the right time for 4 RB's to have 5+ ypc. Would of had atleast 1 other 1,000 yard rusher if the runs weren't split between 3 people.

Making a read between "handoff" and "pass to #1 option" is not an NFL read. Sorry.

Dio, there is a big difference between being an efficient and accurate passer in college and in the NFL - and you know that. Vince has a very respectable completion % his senior year, but he was very inconsistent from game to game.

LA-Lafeyette: 76.5%
Ohio State - 62.1%
Rice - 57.1%
Missouri - 68.2%
OU - 51.9%
Colorado - 86.2%
Texas Tech - 54.5%
Oklahoma State - 50%
Baylor - 59.3%
Kansas - 70.4%
TAMU - 54.2%
Colorado - 82.4%
USC - 75%

It looks good for the whole year, but that kind of inconsistency won't cut it in the NFL.

Leinart was inconsistent at times as well, but not to the degree Young was.

Hawaii - 75%
Arkansas - 75%
Oregon - 59%
Arizona State - 59%
Arizona - 65%
Notre Dame - 53.1%
Washington - 76.9%
Washington State - 70.6%
Stanford - 78.6%
California - 62.5%
Fresno State - 66.7%
UCLA - 52.5%
Texas - 72.5%

Like I said, I only give Leinart the edge over Vince right now because of the team he went to. Young has a stronger arm, but I still think it is on the weak side. He has never shown the ability to throw the 15 yard out. But then again, neither can Drew Brees. Leinart has more touch and accuracy on his ball, and has better QB smarts.

Neither are likely to ever be pro-bowlers, IMO.

And I can see this because:

Well, let's see.....

#1---I have my eyesight.
#2---I saw a lot of games from both QBs
#3---I don't care about UT or USC.
#4---I don't have an opinion one way or another seeing (2) HTrophy winners NOT measuring up to a runner-up.
#5---Blind love of VY or Leinart is so old & shows one's immaturity.

[Obstructed_View]

Vince is a good enough athlete to play in the NFL, I just don't know if he'll be doing it at QB in three years.

[Sportcamper]

ans got the best QB in this yr's draft.

LenDale White was a steal @ #45.... ans may also have gotten the best "NFL running back" in this years draft.....

[johngateswhiteley]

#1---Matt's arm strength is seriously lacking.

#2---Matt gets rattled easily & can't keep his head in a tough game ala 2006 Rose Bowl. His own coach didn't trust his decision making with the biggest game in the past decade on the line.

#3---When Matt plays on the road with a slight gusty wind that VY would be able to handle Matt will throw up a wounded duck.

#4---TEN, NYJ, OAK & DET all saw the obvious, that after VY there wasn't a top 10 QB.

#5---AZ will always be AZ & that was evident when they wasted a pick that high on Matt who is an awesome value in the 20-32 range. Top 10?, hardly.

#6---Head-to-Head VY carried his team & succeeded. Matt flopped like many of his passes in a 3MPH wind.

#7---Vick is very fast & is knocked down with a 5MPH wind. VY isn't, shredded the USC D like it was nada. Try apples to apples next time.

#8---VY finshed less than 1% behind Matt in completions.

#9---VY had more TOTAL O than Matt.

#10---VY had more TDs than Matt...38 to 34.

#11---VY had a BTTER Yds/Attmpt than Matt in Passing AND Rushing. (That's gotta sting!)

#12---VY 6'5" 230 BEFORE any NFL strength training. Vick 6' 215 AFTER apprx 5 seasons. Try apples to apples. A very basic concept it is.

1. leinart's arm strength is not lacking, he may not be able to throw it 80 yards, but he can make every throw on the field. if you watched USC at all, you would know that...
2. i don't know what rose bowl you watched, but not only does one game mean absolutely nothing (he was great in pretty much every game before that), you're flat out wrong. leinart was insane in the second half, when it mattered most, leading the trojans to four straight td's and putting on a ing clinic. thats just a stupid point
3. stupid and false
4. actually norm chow wanted Leinart and NOT vy, but the owner wanted vy and thats all that matters with bud adams. get your facts straight
5. stupid
6. did not know two straight national les and one of the best streaks of all time was flopping...not to mention making the most clutch pass i have ever seen in the notre dame game last year
7. young is a run first qb, i don't care what any 'longhorn' fan thinks. you can spin it however you want...young always looked to run
8. so what...completely different offenses
9. so what...
10. so what...ever heard of tommy frazier...it does not always translate to the nfl, and NO he did not get drafted just b/c of the blood clot
11. irrelevant
12. it does not matter, nfl is all speed and quickness. vy will never get a corner against nfl defenses

....can't have it both ways guys. can't say Leinart was a flopper and not that good, or this and that....and then moments later say USC has lost too much leadership with Leinart gone this year. sorry, but Leinart is the BEST CFB QB of all time. Kirk Herbstreit is/was right...

Beer is God-
...comparing the two QBs is not weak. it is a perfect example of great college QBs whose skills will not transfer to the NFL. and you want to know the kicker? vy could not dream of being as good as vick has in the nfl....and vick is very very average, if not below. sorry....