So we should nuke mecca?
You can't win a non-conventional war. Sad truth.
It won't stop until a government sprouts up that is actually supported by the people. Plus this government has the added requirement of not wanting total destruction of Isreal, which goes against what many people think. You can't satisfy both things. Not unless you kill every person that believes in that viewpoint.
Pray tell, if you really believe this manure why isn't your ass in Iraq right now?Me personally, I have no desire to be pratying towards Mecca 5 times a day...when they get nukes they'll nuke us without a second thought...so I say let's just finish this while we have the upperhand, civillians will die, civillians are going to die here as well eventually, could be you, could be me, but it's going to happen, and it will be a direct attack, not due to fog of war...and if we are too stupid to win this conflict of the past vs the future, with the capability to easily do so, then we deserve what happens to us. And we deserve to lose.
Pakistan has nukes, has had them for years, and Israel is still there. We can argue whether Pakistan is an Islamic nation or not all you want, but there is little doubt that the Pakistani ISI (its version of the CIA) has elements that are very sympathetic to Al Queda.
Maybe the real reason countries like Iran want nuclear weapons is because they figure that the U.S. doesn't invade countries that have nukes.
Vocal dissenters are jailed and executed, and the Governments control the press, so unless you have some sort of way to communicate with the dead, your not likely hear of threats to ME rulers.How come you hardly ever even hear a whimper of dissent or serious threat to the leadership from within these countries? Even though they are loaded with these so called unstoppable terrorist groups?
The way I see it, the American military is booged down in Iraq because our leadership has failed to make the tough decision needed to win this war (i.e. a draft). The situation in Iraq is so strained even Baghdad is in danger of falling into all out civil war because of the violence. Even if we wanted to attack Iran or Syria, there is no way we could do much more than air strikes and that would likely to start a regional ground war that America can ill afford. No, we aren't up anyones ass, in fact, the American military is strained so thin and its equipment collapsing so quickly because of the tough conditions in Iraq, without the injection of billions and billions of more emergency tax dollars in the next decade, our military would collapse.Because last I checked the American Military is so far up the ass of the middle east compared to where they were 5 years ago, it isn't even funny.
Misconception. A majority of moderate Muslims can live peacefully with Israel, in fact, most do.The common, everyday Muslim wants to see Israel destroyed
Link?
I agree though that way too many Muslims want to see everyone and every nation Islamic. Because the Koran is exactly the words of God to Gabriel to Mohammad, there is little wiggleroom for interpretation. Either you are Muslim or you are an infidel. Until Islam can break out of Medievalism, we are in for a religious conflict.
BushCo is not helping very much in trying to reduce the separation of church and state in this country. Our goal should not be to have the majority religion dominate the law.
Because I can't get medical clearance to join....which I tried to do after September 11th.
I actually went to SA and got my physical, scored a 93 on the AVSAB and at the physician interview as I was being told I could pretty much do whatever I wanted, the physician, a retired neurosurgeon, noticed that I had an allergy to Dylantin and nailed me for having had a severe head injury at the age of 16. Something I didn't admit to on my application(per my recruiter).
He then told me that I would need both medical clearance from the neurosurgeon who operated on me and I would need to undergo a battery of physcological evaluations, x rays and catscans before I could get approved.
The physician that performed the surgery is dead, therefore I cannot get medical clearance and I cannot join the US Military, any branch, in any capacity, as a reservist or otherwise...partially, because I cannot be cleared for any kind of lifting, and partially because I have a chance of having a seizure(which has never happened). Those reasons, in addition to the possible psychological disorders that people with head injuries are prone to having....
IOW, I guess they didn't want me going Charles Whitman on them
That's why.
Pakistan is an Islamic Country in name only and it's military dictator is for all intents and purposes Pro Western.Pakistan has nukes, has had them for years, and Israel is still there.
Well so did the CIA...but Pakistan is very dependent on foreign trade and has no mineral wealth to speak of....they are not a true Islamic Country in terms of Leadership and they are heavily economically dependent on other nations.We can argue whether Pakistan is an Islamic nation or not all you want, but there is little doubt that the Pakistani ISI (its version of the CIA) has elements that are very sympathetic to Al Queda.
Maybe the real reason countries like Iran want nuclear weapons is because they figure that the U.S. doesn't invade countries that have nukes.
Well of course that's one reason....but they are also sworn to destroy Israel and refuse to acknowledge it's existence and since they also fund(both covertly and non covertly) Radical Islamic groups, the idea of them getting extensive nuclear tech and materials is a scary one.
Last edited by whottt; 07-31-2006 at 01:24 PM.
Um....these fundamentalist groups also want to overthrow the governments of the mid-east monarchies...
And thank you for proving my point...they can be stifled, they can be controlled...as the leaders of these countries do.
False....
Your partisan politics require you to believe this...
But the strategy has always been clear...
And you have never gotten it...as you proved often by continually asking why Iraq was chosen first....
If the strategy has always been clear, then its time for a new strategy.
You must be a big fan of "The struggle and fail" strategy.
You must be a big fan of "The hearts and Minds" strategy.
Whott do you expect? They couldn't find a legitimate reason for invading Iraq.
Nbadan do you remember what the Bush Admid said at the start of this war?
They didn't say it was going to take months, they didn't say it was going to be a quickly won war, they didn't say there were going to be hard and fast alliances.
They said it was going to take decades, they said some countries would be allies at times and enemies at others, that the alliances and coalitions would change...
You just weren't listening.
But the plan has always been to rid the Middle East of the Post WWI and II Despotic Regimes...the true causes of terrorism.
This means Saudi, Iran, Syria, Jordan, et al.
These dumbass kings or religios fanatics that don't understand how to govern the large populations they rule over and stay in power the same way Socialist and Communist Regimes do(once people realize how badly their governments suck)...by Force agains thte popular will of the people.
It's the opressive regimes and lack of civil rights, as well as accountable government, in the Middle East that causes terrorism...
Israel and the US are just where these leaders direct their anger.
It's easy to make the have nots hate the havs....
But the question you should be asking is why are these minerally rich countries the have nots, while Israel, which has no mineral wealth, is the have? Yes they get aid...but so do the Palestinians, and so does every other country in the Middle East except for Iran and Saudi.
These leaders sit there and talk about colinization and imperialism, unless you are an idiot, you know that is not the history of America in the 20th century....unless the alternative was Communism... it's not our history ever....our history is overthrowing colonialism.
Take a look at Japan, take a look a Germany, , take a look at France.
Are those American Colonies? Are they inhumane holes?(Check the immigration numbers). The American Military stood in "occupation" of all of them...
Sorry but you just don't get it dude....and it's because of what you don't know, and your personal, hardwired political bias.
Last edited by whottt; 07-31-2006 at 01:45 PM.
They had completely legitimate reasons for invading Iraq...
There was never a peace treaty signed at the end of the Persian Gulf War...
It was a cease fire, somthing Saddam violated back in 1991 when he fired on planes enforcing the no fly zone.
That in addition to the countless UN resolutions Saddam violated.
I can prove this, I can back this up...
You are just going on lame rhetoric.
And wars aren't won instantly....I don't know where you guys got this from...
I never thought it was going to be won quickly....it's not going to be over in my lifetime.
The Islamicists are banking on winning this war the same way the Vietnam was was won...but creating unpopular opposition to the war at home....
I personally am against stifling the liberal voice, it's what keeps us a moderate country, but being too far to the right, or too far to the left, just as a general belief system, is just plain stupid....
Things change, situations change....
No why don't you go burn your draft card in protest or something hip cool and nostalgic like that....
Oh wait, you don't have one...................................
That does not demonstrate a misconception. You, for example, would like to see the current Administration destroyed (i.e., dismantled); however, you have lived peacefully with it, so far as we know.
Where are these pro-existence-of-Israel Muslims you folks say you know?
I love when you guys and preach about how the UN is useless, then pretend to be outraged when a resolution is violated. Talk about flip-flop.
Tell me more about the reasons for invading Iraq? I know you'd love to convince everyone to follow your sheperd.
The UN is useless because THEY don't get outraged when their resolutions are violated.
What are good are resolutions if you lack the willingness to enforce them?
What good is the UN if it refuses to matter?
And the only UN Resolutions that do get enforeced are the ones America enforces...
You must be missing a chromosome or something....because it's clear as day what the problem with the UN is.
Tell me more about the reasons for invading Iraq? I know you'd love to convince everyone to follow your sheperd.
Why was Iraq chosen?
1.It had been weakened by sanctions and war.
2.We had legitimacy to do so due to violations of cease fire agreements and UN resolutions.
3.Saddam wasn't popular with the other powerful mideast leaders....
Saudi and Iran.
4.Whether you believe he had WMD or not....there can be no disagreement that he had the desire to aquire them and had done so in the past.
Iraq was attacked because it was the one that could be attacked with the least opposition...politically, internally, and legally.
Like I said earlier...
I am just glad you were never the leader of a people...your people would be dead or slaves.
Which country would you have suggested we attack first?
Saudi?
Yeah that would have gone over real well with the Muslim World(and that's just one thing)...
But if all we were after was Oil...that would have been the country we went after first, our military was already there....and they have more Oil than Iraq does.
Now I await a lame oil for war rant being ignorant of the fact that...Iraq will join OPEC and what that means, as well as the fact that subsidized Iraqi Oil was abundant under the OFF program. Now it's not...
The most recent Pew Global At udes Survey showed that 75% of Lebanese Muslims believe that the state of Israel must be destroyed in order to bring justice to the Palestinian people.
That survey also showed that Lebanese Muslims are among the most moderate in the Middle East.
The average Muslim wants to see the state of Israel dismantled. I'm sorry if that is an unpleasant truth.
Wow, being told your missing a chromosome by someone who has been instructed to have their head examined must mean I'm really stupid.
Your right, Iran didn't like saddam. Iran would love to spearhead their influence in Iraq. If i'm Iran I'm thinking "wow, that wasn't hard, all it took was one dip from texas".
I'm gonna stray off the topic, since everybody else has been. LOL
I'm just wanna say whatever happend to Al-Qaeda? They've been really quiet and haven't seen any news from them.
Kidney failure will do that.
Sucks to be you doesn't it?
Just not fair that I have excuse and obviously no need of one....while you do, and don't.
Well that and the fact that they had a long war with him....Your right, Iran didn't like saddam. Iran would love to spearhead their influence in Iraq.
No one liked Saddam except for...aha, France Germany and Russia, the three countries who benfitted extensively from the OFF program...and had lucrative development rights in place with him for when the sanctions were lifted.
Oh, and Syria of course.
If i'm Iran I'm thinking "wow, that wasn't hard, all it took was one dip from texas".
Beats your solutions...which seem to be, take it up the ass.
Don't be so hostile about it....you are an embrassment to the legacy of your country...but we still love you. Some were born to follow and cower...others were born to lead, fight and make a difference.
If you tell me what your plan is I will be happy to tell you why it is stupid and inaccurate...unfortunately you don't seem to have one....
Just a bunch of lame, unprovable and histocially inaccurate sensationalistic media cathphrases and arguments...Arguing with you is like arguing with a newsblurb.
See what makes you an idiot...is that I told you why Iraq was attacked first, and why doing so was the logical choice if the longterm goal was to rid the mid-east of all the despots(as it is is) you didn't disprove anything, you just made some stupid smartass remarks...
That bump to the head impaired your judgement. Be prepared to have your decisions made by others. It has worked for them so far. Just wait a few years to hear the truth about current events.
Whott, no one can debate you, what with all the "idiot", " head" and other intelligent meanderings your thoughts espouse.
You may be right about certain things, and I would hope one day politicians could be so honest, but the delivery is schewed. Which schews everything else.
But, Hey! Youre 12k posts in, you knew that already.
I have civil debates all the time...just depends on the person I am arguing with and how stupid they are or how stupid they point they are making is....
Exactly what points has clambake made that deserve a civil response?
Scratch that....what points has clambake made?
None...which is why he gets talked too like he is a tool.
You OTOH, were quite civil and made a clear and valid point...
And I feel I have given you a civil and honest response.
Were you insulted?
Was I insulting to Nbadan even?
Sometimes I admit to being a little heated in my opinions, and I can make a comment directed at no one person and find some people feeling personally attatcked...that will get a nasty response from me because if I didn't make a personal attack(IE clearly directed at an individual) then people shouldn't take it personally...and if they do I am going to be a about it because they're being stupid.
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