False...I have respect for some, and not for others.
Why would I lie about it?
There, I've been truthful with you...
Now you tell me what lead you to say the British are good at Nation building...
Their last great idea was to stick a bunch of European Jews smack dab in the middle of the Mid-East on land that was partially promised to Arabs...how'd that turn out?
Should we try that in Iraq?
Last edited by whottt; 08-03-2006 at 04:14 PM.
YOu seem to put special emphisis on "European" Jews. Guess that has something to do with your love affair with history(the way you see it). Jews and Israel in the same sentence appears normal to normal people (I'd never accuse you of that). YOur self granduer only exist your in head(along with other thoughts that I have been requested not to mention). And yet you haven't the courage to admit what's wrong.
You are a fasinating specimen.
A beacon for posterity!
Quit acting like the U.S. had no vested defense interest in keeping troops and equipment in Western Europe. World War 2 was another time under a Democratic President who had little interest in American colonialism or globalization.
Yeah, the U.S. has never had any influence on South and Central American governments.Who colonized South America slick?
Grow up.
Some people think if you read it then it must be true.
Some people think that history books are printed without shedding some favorable light. Some people understand that history is nothing more than what people agreed to believe. At least he can read.
LOL.
Our vested interest was in not getting sucked into another one of their wars and not being forced to speak Russian.
We also have vested in interest in having troops in the middle east and removing the governments that breed apocalyptic religious zealouts.
And that President that had little interest in American colonialism or globalization also nuked the living out of Japan old boy.
LMAO...
Yeah it's better not to read.
IT's better to advocate illiteracy and watch TV.
Without a doubt, you are the stupidest person I have ever encountered in my life.
Yeah, the U.S. has never had any influence on South and Central American governments.
Grow up.
How many full out wars have we fought in South and Central America Dan?
You know...the necessary ingredient before you can get to that Nation building stuff.
The U.S. isn't a colonialist Whott, we are Globalist. Globalist will make a deal with the devil as long as they can make a few bucks off the deal, the will of the people of the nation be damned.
Globalist what?
What are we spreading Globally Dan?
What is our economic and political policy we are spreading? The very thing that makes us one of the leading Immigration Countries in the World?
Seeing as how the so called Globalist Countries have the highest Immigration Rates in the world dan, maybe that's not a bad thing you know? Maybe we're just trying to get some folk to stay home.
And back to Britain...Britain was Globalist in the negative connotation. We are not them.
I'm glad you can read. I can too, but i'm mature enough not spew what ever suites my fancy. I'm mature enough to know that everything I read is not completely accurate, nor do I expect it to be. Your inability to do the same may be a result of your episode of thunderdome.
You ACT like you love America. Americans know that any president that takes us to war over lies and fabrications is un-American.
So then how do you decide what is accurate and what isn't?
Your ass?
Even if you can find nothing to support that opinion?
Americans know that any president that takes us to war over lies and fabrications is un-American.
Did you read that somehwere?
I did read somewhere that our troops are battle hardened (soon to be code for s shocked).
I read somewhere "There is no draft you wad" ( which is code for "Your only way out is desertion".)
How do I find out? I wait for your opinion, study it carefully, and choose not to jump to conclusions.
True Americans don't send our young men and women to their deaths over a lie. That would be like strapping bombs to our children and convincing them to run into that crowd of people because their evil.
You do realize that there was virtually NO Radical Islamic activity in Iraq under Saddam, don't you? He hated those people, repressed them beyond imagination and ran a secular government. The only thing wrong was we didn't like him. Syria is virtually the same way, except that they support a bit of exported terrorism in Lebanon. Those people know that they dare not operate in Syria, though. I remember reading about a situation dealt with by Hafez Assad, the current Syrian president's father. There were some radical Islamicist stirring up in one town. He called out his army, brought in the artillary and levelled the whole town. The whole ing town was just gone, literally wiped off the map. Fundamentalism is used by Middle East govts to battle Israel, but if Israel vanished tommorrow, those people would be hunted into extinction in about a year by the sitting governments in the Middle East. Anyone who sees the Middle East as turning totally radical is way off base.We also have vested in interest in having troops in the middle east and removing the governments that breed apocalyptic religious zealouts.
Sure...Saddam was a Socialist...until he jumped on the Islam brigade after the GulfWar.
No one liked him except for like 3 countries.He hated those people, repressed them beyond imagination and ran a secular government.
The only thing wrong was we didn't like him.
Syria is virtually the same way, except that they support a bit of exported terrorism in Lebanon. Those people know that they dare not operate in Syria, though. I remember reading about a situation dealt with by Hafez Assad, the current Syrian president's father. There were some radical Islamicist stirring up in one town. He called out his army, brought in the artillary and levelled the whole town. The whole ing town was just gone, literally wiped off the map. Fundamentalism is used by Middle East govts to battle Israel, but if Israel vanished tommorrow, those people would be hunted into extinction in about a year by the sitting governments in the Middle East. Anyone who sees the Middle East as turning totally radical is way off base.
Oh I know...it can be controlled, see the future of Hezbolla thread...
That's why everyone needs to stop blaming the Israelis for civillian deaths...
No one is keeping Hezbollah from getting out there in the open and fighting...
Israel would wipe them out quicker than Syria did.
It is the middle eastern govts that sponsor these groups...because they know they can't fight Israel conventionally.
And it's funny how everyone calls out Israel for the Palestinian situation never seeming to notice that the majority of the Palestinians were forcibly evicted from Jordan...and none of the Arab countries will let those nuts back in.
I don't see how this changes anything though...
Saddam was still a threat and sanctions were used as a recruiting tool for Extremists...and Arabs/Muslim fundamentalists still can't can't fight tactical wars, especially in the modern era, worth a .
What they can do is blow civillians up with bombs if they are willing to kill themselves in the process.
Oh, they can fly planes into and kill themselves in the process...and that's about all they understand about Air Warfare.
I can tell you guys that Israel isn't going to stop until Hezbollah is gone from Lebanon and the government and people get the message that if they don't police themselves, Israel will.
Actually, that's the same message America is sending...
IF you get this, then why don't you get how full of BS all these ME leaders are?
Last edited by whottt; 08-03-2006 at 07:35 PM.
Where'd you read that?
( which is code for "Your only way out is desertion".)
Then don't join..
And where'd you read that? All this crap sounds good to you...but it's lame, trite and you're stupid.
Well the waiting for my opinion thing is good....it's when you attempt logical thought on your own that things start to get ed up...How do I find out? I wait for your opinion, study it carefully, and choose not to jump to conclusions.
Stick to part 1...
Eliminate that thinking on your own part...you do a ty job of it.
Where'd you read all of that?True Americans don't send our young men and women to their deaths over a lie.
No, it wouldn't be like that....That would be like strapping bombs to our children and convincing them to run into that crowd of people because their evil.
What would be like that would be doing something like that....
Moral equivalancies suck in and of themselves...and that's a ty one on top of it....
That is in no way morally equivalent....and the fact that you somehow see them as being equivalent, well...you're just stupid.
Go find that chromosome now.
Actually, the jewel in the crown has traditionally been Hong Kong. Singapore and Malaysia have also done exceptionally well. And India is poised for takeoff, all these countries follow many British Ins utions.
I guess we aren't counting commonwealth countries such as Canada and Australia.
The Brits have been more successful than the Spanish, Portugese, Dutch, Germans, Japanese and French as Nation Builders.
Hong Kong is smaller than New York City and has about a 3rd of the population...
Hong Kong is a big city...not a nation.
Singapore
Singapore is another big city...it's got like 3 million people living in it...
That's Houston, that's not a nation.
I'll give you Maylasia...there's one.and Malaysia have also done exceptionally well.
India fought wars for it's Independence....And India is poised for takeoff, all these countries follow many British Ins utions.
That's not building a nation...
That's ruling them until they break free.
I guess we aren't counting commonwealth countries such as Canada and Australia.
Oh I counted them...I gave Britain full credit for it's ability to colonize and massacre indigenous populations... . give em credit for America and Israel too.
Is that the approach we can take in the mid-east? Or is that exactly their worst fears are that we are going to do?
Take the land and pump it full of white people...
Now tell me...who does that?
America? Or England?
And no we don't count...we were the colony.
Hmmmm...Spain I'm not so sure of. Ok maybe.The Brits have been more successful than the Spanish, Portugese, Dutch, Germans, Japanese and French as Nation Builders.
Portugal? Mmmmm.......well if you are going to give credit for colonies I have to say Brazil is pretty impressive considering the other countries.
The Dutch have a pretty good track record....better IMO, than the British.
The Germans are ty at it...I'll give you that.
Japanese are ty at it, I'll give you that.
The French are without a doubt the worst in World history at it....
You've got Maylasia as a country that was set up by Britain while maintaining it's indigenous iden y and is a sucessful nation...
But I will, it was also a colony...it wasn't the same type as Austrailia and America so it does count as far as true nation building...
But it still won't work in this situation...we can't just turn Iraq into a colony...
That's what the fear in the Mid-East is.
And when they accuse us of colonialism, if Imerialism...they are taking the deeds of the European colonial empires and attributing them to America...even though, we have never truly done anything of the sort since gaining our independence...
Sticking our military in a country to stabilize it is not colonialism...if that's the case than Europe is our colony.
I thank America for fighting off Communism.
There . . . I said it!
Hong Kong has nearly the same population as Israel, it also has a larger GDP and higher per capita income than Israel. Singapore has about 4 million people and it's GDP and per capita income are also higher than Israel's.Hong Kong is smaller than New York City and has about a 3rd of the population...
Hong Kong is a big city...not a nation.
Singapore is another big city...it's got like 3 million people living in it...
That's Houston, that's not a nation.
True, they earned their freedom, they weren't given it. Most Ins utions there are also modeled after the British.India fought wars for it's Independence....
That's not building a nation...
That's ruling them until they break free.
Most Portugese and French colonies in Africa have turned to . Name a former Spanish colony that turned out relatively free of corruption.Hmmmm...Spain I'm not so sure of. Ok maybe.
Portugal? Mmmmm.......well if you are going to give credit for colonies I have to say Brazil is pretty impressive considering the other countries.
The Dutch have a pretty good track record....better IMO, than the British.
The Germans are ty at it...I'll give you that.
Japanese are ty at it, I'll give you that.
The French are without a doubt the worst in World history at it....
Brazil turned out well, but it's still a 3rd world country with a high incidence of violent crime and no middle class.
Just wondering about the Dutch, the Boer's in Africa were famous for cruelty as were the Dutch in Indonesia. And which country is more developed, Indonesia or Malaysia?
I never said you could...Iraq will take years to sort itself out.You've got Maylasia as a country that was set up by Britain while maintaining it's indigenous iden y and is a sucessful nation...
But I will, it was also a colony...it wasn't the same type as Austrailia and America so it does count as far as true nation building...
But it still won't work in this situation...we can't just turn Iraq into a colony...
That's what the fear in the Mid-East is.
And when they accuse us of colonialism, if Imerialism...they are taking the deeds of the European colonial empires and attributing them to America...even though, we have never truly done anything of the sort since gaining our independence...
Sticking our military in a country to stabilize it is not colonialism...if that's the case than Europe is our colony.
As for American Colonialism, During the Spanish American War, America took possession of most of Spain's colonies.
Over a million civilians in the Philippines died during the Philippine American War. There was the usual stories of war atrocities committed by US Troops.
America granted the Philippines Independence after World War 2, nearly 50 years after taking possession of this colony.
De Nada.
Communism was going to collapse anyway. It was a waiting gamea stand-off.
What broke Russia's back was the collapse of oil prices after the world adjusted to the Iranian oil shock of the early 80s.
When the oil prices collapsed in mid-80s, Russia main source of hard currency collapsed with it. Russia was essentially bankrupted into collapsing, could not respond to Lech in Poland, got their butts beat and treasury depleted in Afghanistan, could only watch as Berliners knocked down the wall.
Of course, the CIA was surprised as anyone when Russia collapsed. Those ers are useless, but they get their $50B/year, job security, and fat pensions anyway. Sure beats working for a living.
Actually I think it's got quite a few more people than Israel...
Well Israel has enemies on all sides...it also has a larger GDP and higher per capita income than Israel. Singapore has about 4 million people and it's GDP and per capita income are also higher than Israel's.
Why mention Israel anyway? It's a British invention...not an American.
And seeing as how we are plunging into WWIII over it...I'd wouldn't be using it as an example of success.
IT could have been...it migth still be...but so far it's a been the central point of much conflict since WWII.
The point is...Hong Kong and Singapore are small areas, small populations...
They are not a country of 25 million like Iraq.
we can fix a city...
Most Portugese and French colonies in Africa have turned to . Name a former Spanish colony that turned out relatively free of corruption.
Mexico? Eh...never mind.
I'll get back to you on that...
In some ways Brazil is more forward thinking than any nation in the world at this time...Brazil turned out well, but it's still a 3rd world country with a high incidence of violent crime and no middle class.
Just wondering about the Dutch, the Boer's in Africa were famous for cruelty as were the Dutch in Indonesia. And which country is more developed, Indonesia or Malaysia?
Ok I'll give you Maylasia again...I just think there are fewer former Dutch colonies that are holes than British.
As for American Colonialism, During the Spanish American War, America took possession of most of Spain's colonies.
Over a million civilians in the Philippines died during the Philippine American War. There was the usual stories of war atrocities committed by US Troops.
America granted the Philippines Independence after World War 2, nearly 50 years after taking possession of this colony.
That's not colonizing a previously uncolonized people....that's taking Spain's colonies... the Brits, Dutch and Spanish did that to each other all the time. That's not us going out and establishing colonies by enslaving the indigenous populations...
And furthermore...the Philipines aren't a hole, and they are sizable country that fights for and loves it's Democracy....the Philipines are a great country and they've overcome quite a bit of strife.
That's year another example of the success of America at Nation building....albeit not the kind that I am advocating now. They've pretty much done it on their own.
Where are our failures? Which countries have we culturally destroyed and then left after turning them into economic and humanitarian holes?
And by the way, I am very impressed.
Last edited by whottt; 08-03-2006 at 10:01 PM.
Cuba...
Really? His tone the norm? Yikes....
Nothing lead me to believe the British were any better or worse than the US. Because the real answer is no one is very good at nation building if they had ever attempted more than 5x.
I said "Give it to the Brits" more tongue-in-cheek than anything else. I am well aware of their past efforts in Africa and Asia and how those seem to be working out.
I was being sarcastic without explicitly stating. But you are such a rapid-fire, sword wielding post slayer, I doubt you have ever read any of my previous posts on Iraq to truly know my position. Not that I know yours...oh wait....pick a topic in the political forum....Whott has it on lockdown.
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