Beno's minutes: Will he get his shot this year?

[Kori Ellis]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

[BeerIsGood!]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

I have a feeling PG isn't going to be much of a problem position for the Spurs this coming year. I feel much more uneasy about the center position and depth at forward than I do at PG. Beno has the tools, he just needs to get over his mental issues with handling the press and running the offense smoothly. I think sometimes Pop's demeanor isn't too helpful with someone who is having a mental block about an area of their game. But then again, how long can they wait for him to step up and control the ball effectively??

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

C Oberto/Elson/Butler-Good
PF Duncan/Boner/Horry-Good
SF Bowen/Williams-???
SG Manu/Finley/Barry-Good with or without Brent.
PG Tony/Beno/Vaughn-Good
The only place I have problems with is at small forward. I don't feel right with Williams as our backup. We need to get rid of him and Barry. Their contracts combined is around 8.5-9 million dollars. Who can we get as a backup small forward worth 9 mil with the other team willing to have Brent and Eric?

[boutons_]

"Vaughn is only 31."

it's not his age. In 9 seasons, he hasn't run up any AST, PTS, or MPG. A non-factor. Even Rasho had more promise and better numbers coming from Min than JV.

I'm always ready to be pleasantly surprised, but this guy's career predicts poorly. At 31, will he finally make a contribution? hmmm....

[BERSERK]

I hate to say it to all the Beno fans but there is only so much time one can say about someone having potential. Beno had his chance the past three years and he has yet to deliver as being considered Spurs point guard ready starter. IF Parker got hurt, Beno would not save our season. Poppovich is better off using Beno as trade bait.

[withcheese]

I don't think it's exactly bad work ethic either. I just think that for a while (and it might be still true) he apparently wasn't in good shape. Point guards need to be really fit. He isn't/wasn't. Whether that's from overeating, overdrinking, not working out enough, or a combination of all of that, who knows.

But I don't blame Pop for not using him a lot last season. I think he would have gotten a chance in the playoffs if he would have shown in the regular season that he could handle the press. He didn't.

What's weird is ... did Beno always have problems against the press even in Europe? Because almost any point guard in the league can handle it ... even the scrubs, so I don't know why he can't.

I want him to get a shot this year and I think he will, but he needs to get in serious shape. And people shouldn't write off Vaughn as being in the "twilight of his career" or compare him to NVE. Vaughn is only 31.

that's a chicken-or-the-egg kinda thing...did he show that he couldnt handle the press in the regular season because he really can't and then his minutes got cut? or did he show that he couldnt handle getting d'ed up hard by billups and lindsey hunter and maybe once or twice during the '06 season, then got relegated to the bench because pop wouldn't give him another chance?

in other words, can we really say that he sucks at bringing the ball up the court based on the limited amount of PT he's gotten over the last year? it would be like parking bowen on the bench for half the season, then telling him to go in for one play to shoot a corner three pointer...if he missed it, you people (and pop) would be calling him a ty three point shooter, but you haven't seen enough to really tell.

And about using Beno as trade bait...you kill his value by not playing him. Look what happened to Darko...on draft night, the #2 pick could have gotten an all-star in return. Two years of bench warming, and it turned into Kelvin ing Cato. sticking beno in deep freeze and using him as trade bait is a horrible idea...if your going to try to get value for him, give him a ton of minutes especially against ty defense teams so he can show off his three.

i hate to jump all over beno's jock because i don't really like him all that much and he kinda looks like a pussy, but , pop has given this guy a raw deal...and if he loses minutes to jacque ing vaughn, i hope the spurs trade his ass to some team that will give him some burn and actually appreciate his skills and give him a chance to grow...just like darko. and that looks like it might work out pretty well for the magic.

[Kori Ellis]

or did he show that he couldnt handle getting d'ed up hard by billups and lindsey hunter and maybe once or twice during the '06 season, then got relegated to the bench because pop wouldn't give him another chance?

I firmly believe that if Beno didn't almost individually lose that game against the Rockets near the end of the regular season by not being able to handle the press by a scrubs in garbage time, then he would have played more in the postseason.

[withcheese]

I firmly believe that if Beno didn't almost individually lose that game against the Rockets near the end of the regular season by not being able to handle the press by a scrubs in garbage time, then he would have played more in the postseason.

i hear that, but:

1. did he play that poorly because he didnt play any meaningful minutes all season and didnt have a rythm, and:

2. would he have really gotten substantial minutes in the playoffs after a full season of van exel being the number 2 pg in the rotation, regardless of his play at the end of the season?

[Kori Ellis]

i hear that, but:

1. did he play that poorly because he didnt play any meaningful minutes all season and didnt have a rythm, and:

He shouldn't need rhythm to handle the press. It's a basic skill that any point guard who makes it all the way to the NBA should have.

2. would he have really gotten substantial minutes in the playoffs after a full season of van exel being the number 2 pg in the rotation, regardless of his play at the end of the season?

Neither one of them were going to get "substantial" minutes ... NVE only played 11 mpg in the playoffs. But I think Beno would have gotten some more minutes if he showed anything. Pop didn't really want to be using NVE ... his elbow was in bad shape.

It just would have been nice when Tony's legs were destroyed in the Mavs series if someone could have given him a little break.

Anyway, Vaughn played 15mpg last season behind Kidd. Hopefully he doesn't plays much less than that here. It's time for Beno to do something.

If he doesn't do anything the first half of the season, they should keep trying to package him with Barry and ship him off.

[withcheese]

If he doesn't do anything the first half of the season, they should keep trying to package him with Barry and ship him off.

agreed, but i think pop should give him a REAL chance to prove himself, not like what he did with malik in 04-05, which was park his ass on the bench for games at a time, then randomly put him in a game, then yank him after 30 seconds if he made one small mistake, yell at him like a red headed step child, and then not play him again for another few games.

i guarantee you if pop pulls that kind of with beno, he wont make positive contributions...its a self-fulfilling prophecy...

and about handling a press, when youve got so much pressure from your coach not to up, and the only thing thats going through your head is that your nba career will be trash if you do up, a lot of players WILL up against a press since that does actually take nerves of steal when their really after your ass. ive seen parker throw away passes in three quarters court, and sjax used to do it CONSTANTLY...pop came down hard on them, and they produced, but maybe beno needs more of a mo cheeks approach than a bob knight approach to perform well...diffrent strokes for diffrent folks, ya know? and pop should be able to make minor adjustments in his coaching style to account for the (sometimes fragile) psyches of his players.

[ChumpDumper]

I can't think of any other NBA point guard that Chuck Hayes owned last season.

Can you?

[Bruno]

agreed, but i think pop should give him a REAL chance to prove himself, not like what he did with malik in 04-05, which was park his ass on the bench for games at a time, then randomly put him in a game, then yank him after 30 seconds if he made one small mistake, yell at him like a red headed step child, and then not play him again for another few games.

Check the facts :
- Malik played in all 50 games that Spurs played in 04-05 before they traded him.
- Malik played only 5 times under 10 min while he average 17.2min/game.

Malik wasn't really in Pop's doghouse, he gets quite consistent playtime given that he was a bench player and that Spurs signed Horry.
He only played 17.2min/game because Spurs had a lot of quality bigs (Duncan/Rasho/Horry) and because he just wasn't good enough to get more playtime.
And Pop has yelled too a lot on Parker.

[Bruno]

I can't think of any other NBA point guard that Chuck Hayes owned last season.

Can you?

Can you think at a player that when your team is up by 1 with 27 second left and 24 left on the clock (that is to say when the only thing you had to do is to take a bad shoot at the end of the clock and then defend 2 seconds), turn the ball over and allow the opposite team to win the game ?

Can you think at a player that when your team is up by 3 with 32 second left do a foul on a layup while the coach have said "NO FOUL, NO FOUL" ?

People have accepted that Manu (who is far more older than Beno) has lost last year his confidence because of nagging injuries/Artest..
People should accept that Beno has lost too his confidence in 05-06 because Spur's FO have decided that he will only be a garbage player for this year after a good rookie season.

Beno will always have some difficulties against a strong defensive pressure because he is slow, "fat", has short arms and isn't the greatest ballhandler of the world. But with some confidence, some help from his teammates, some practice and some conditioning, he will be able to handle defensive pressure.

[ChumpDumper]

People have accepted that Manu (who is far more older than Beno) has lost last year his confidence because of nagging injuries/Artest.

Hmm. I never thought that at all. Manu is hard on himself. That's all I've seen.

People should accept that Beno has lost too his confidence in 05-06 because Spur's FO have decided that he will only be a garbage player for this year after a good rookie season.

The Houston game was his chance. He failed. The fairness of the opportunity can be debated but it's clear he was put to the test that day, and JVG set up a defense pretty much as any coach in the playoffs would have. The results speak for themselves. I can't bring myself to think any other respectable coach would have promoted Beno in the playoffs after that debacle.

Beno will always have some difficulties against a strong defensive pressure because he is slow, "fat", has short arms and isn't the greatest ballhandler of the world. But with some confidence, some help from his teammates, some practice and some conditioning, he will be able to handle defensive pressure.

I actually think he's a very good ballhandler. He can't help his short arms, but that's mostly a problem for defense. His conditioning is a point of real consternation for me -- if a guy plays the most athletically demanding position in the most athletically demanding sport around, doesn't it make sense to maximize his conditioning? I'm not expecting him to keep up with Parker or anything, I only expect him to do the best with what he's got.

[Bruno]

The Houston game was his chance. He failed. The fairness of the opportunity can be debated but it's clear he was put to the test that day, and JVG set up a defense pretty much as any coach in the playoffs would have. The results speak for themselves.

So, there is no need to explain why I think that Beno need another oportunity to show what he is able to do.

I can't bring myself to think any other respectable coach would have promoted Beno in the playoffs after that debacle.

Did I say that beno should have played in last years playoffs ?

if a guy plays the most athletically demanding position in the most athletically demanding sport around, doesn't it make sense to maximize his conditioning?

Beno has started last season knowing that he won't play. It's difficult to maximize you conditioning for not playing.
I don't say that Beno is perfect but cir stances were really hard for him last year.

[ChumpDumper]

So, there is no need to explain why I think that Beno need another oportunity to show what he is able to do.

Sure. That's what this season is all about.

Did I say that beno should have played in last years playoffs ?

Others have in this thread. That was for everyone.

Beno has started last season knowing that he won't play.

Well, I'm not completely sold on that.

It's difficult to maximize you conditioning for not playing.

Melvin Sanders was in awesome shape. Still is, last I saw him. So were Kevin Willis and Tony Massenburg and Mike Wilks when they played for that matter. I'm just from the school of thought that bench players always have to be ready. Beno would do well to follow the example of those players. It can certainly help a player stick in the league.

[Kibic]

He shouldn't need rhythm to handle the press. It's a basic skill that any point guard who makes it all the way to the NBA should have.

I remember a game where 12 (top) NBA players loose the game against 12 non NBA players.
Well ...if thay "make it all the way to the NBA" how couldn't they handle 12 Greeks?

[Kori Ellis]

I remember a game where 12 (top) NBA players loose the game against 12 non NBA players.
Well ...if thay "make it all the way to the NBA" how couldn't they handle 12 Greeks?

That's a bad comparison that doesn't really make sense. What does a bad team with bad coaching, no defense, no playbook, etc have to do with an individual basketball player?

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)

[Bruno]

I'm just from the school of thought that bench players always have to be ready. Beno would do well to follow the example of those players.

Who isn't from this school ?

Beno could have been in great shape and ready to play last year but he wasn't. He isn't perfect and has weaknesses like other players. In 04-05, he was in a good enough shape to be a good backup PG. Why wouldn't he be able to be again in that shape in 06-07 if cir stances are the same than in 04-05 ?

[Kibic]

That's a bad comparison that doesn't really make sense. What does a bad team with bad coaching, no defense, no playbook, etc have to do with an individual basketball player?

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)

Sorry. While in Europe and in comparation with his age (U18, U20) and later, Beno was better than TP. TP today desn't look to bad. But boy he get his chance. I don't remember nothing special regarding Beno and handeling pressure. At the begining he did not shoot to much. He is still very young an I think he is that kind of person who could use some tutoring from older players.

[Kori Ellis]

Thanks. I think Beno has great court vision and a sweet shot. I hope he develops into something special here.

When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.

[Slomo]

I was asking a serious question about Beno. Has he always had problems with the press at all levels in Europe? Or did he just get rattled by Detroit and it become a problem from then on? It would be weird to me if he always had problems with the press and scouts didn't know it. Or did they? (I didn't pay any attention to Beno before the draft)

I don't remember Beno having any problems with the press while playing in Europe, actually I didn't notice any problems during the WC this year, so it's something that confuses me.

When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.

Beno did set the record straight on his injuries and other problems he had during his professional career in Europe (combination of bad manager and not always honest clubs with some minor injuries to top it off) in an interview a while ago (I remember it was posted on ST.com too). I'm pretty sure his motivation last year wasn't very good after seeing KVE getting his playing time despite not playing well - it's not an excuse (I have very low tolerance for lazyness), I'm just pretty sure it bothered him.

As for the "party guy" reputation you know who you should ask - *cough*hiphoopers*cough* although I seriously doubt he'll spill the beans

[sendman]

I hate to say it to all the Beno fans but there is only so much time one can say about someone having potential. Beno had his chance the past three years and he has yet to deliver as being considered Spurs point guard ready starter. IF Parker got hurt, Beno would not save our season. Poppovich is better off using Beno as trade bait.

Dear sir!

Beno is with the Spurs for two (2) seasons, how you were able to evaluate his game with Spurs for three (3) years is beyond me. Oh, wait I know, you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
In the first season he was outstanding rookie, and last year he was benched for NVE.

And who is that Poppovich guy?

[Kibic]

Thanks. I think Beno has great court vision and a sweet shot. I hope he develops into something special here.

When Beno was in Europe, I know he got hurt a few times but was he a player that worked hard and was in good physical shape? Did he have a reputation of a "party" guy? Because here I think he is gaining that reputation.

As I know, he was allways a workoholic. But when you come to NBA from Europe, all skiny, they say to you you have to gain some mass. (In my opinion stupid). They have programs....food, training... I think Gino would not be better if he get another 10 kg. If speed is his best advantage.

[ShoogarBear]

Beno is getting the biggest free ride from Spur fans of any bench player in the history of the team.

He would get playing time if he worked better at dealing with pressure. There's no evidence that he's working all that hard at improving his game. Yet it's "Oh, that mean Pop, why won't he play Beno".