Reply With Quote
pretty bad when a Suns fan is more optimistic about the season, than the team's own fans.
Thanks to everyone who's added something so far. It's basically what I've figured. Some like the moves for various reasons while others dislike the moves for various reasons.
I still like San Antonio as the favorite going into the season. I think you were a Manu foul from potentially making a fourth Finals and you've done nothing to slip back. Maybe not take too many steps ahead, but certainly not slip back... health permitting.
Elson and Bonner will surprise. Of that I'm farely certain.
pretty bad when a Suns fan is more optimistic about the season, than the team's own fans.
Hey, as a Suns fan, I'm a big believer in taking an "if you don't expect too much, you might not be let down" mentality with regards to your team...
Dreams are no fun when your home team repeatedly dashes them against a wall
i guess my biggest fear is that it normally takes a season for a player to adjust to pops system especially defensively and two new faces is what makes me a little nervous. for that reason alone i give oberto the early edge. If the new faces can catch on then i'll be a bit happier.
I don't know about this "takes a year" stuff. Nazr came in and got it right away en route to a le. Mohammed certainly wasn't a smart player. His ability just fit. I see Elson as the same type of player. He's sat behind more talented players but has had solid impact when played. Given the minutes, I think he comes close to Nazr's 2005-06 averages of 6 points, 5 rebounds, 1 block...
Bonner should speak for himself, at least for those who follow basketball beyond the Spurs.
Butler is big, athletic and marginally skilled, but played pretty hard and knows how to score or rebound down low.
You still have Oberto for Shaq, Yao and Ilgauskas.
Plus, you've saved money for the future...
Once again, the Suns fan sees the good stuff.
I felt really confused this off season.
While I always assume that coach Popovich etc has a definite agenda, this summer seemed disorderly to me.
It felt to me that the decisions made about whom to bring in were incredibly random.
Granted, that was probably my fault as I know little to nothing about our newbies.
( I am in the process of fixing that.)
About our Centers:
I had absolutely no problem with Nazr walking.
Much as I'll miss him, I would rather Rasho play in Toronto then be stuck sitting on a bench here.
I know he didn't play much, but I am sad the Kiwi left. He's cool.
I am with holding judgement on the new Center canidates until I have seen them play a few games.
I'm happy about all our returning guys.
As for the team as a whole, I'm really looking forward to pre season where I expect to see everyone come together and play strong from the start.
Not to mention that in addition to the new pieces, we have a chip on our shoulder after that very emotional game 7 loss. During the playoffs I felt like a lot of our guys were hurt, and we wouldn't have gotten as far as we did if Tim didn't step his game up more than he did in the season. I like our chances when we have 4 of the starting 5 returning and 5 returning bench players who are all going to be playing with that chip on their shoulders, plus all the new guys who have the hunger of being able to compete for their first le.
I like the moves we made. Butler will develop well in San Antonio I think. Elson isn't known as dominant or and enforcer, but if he can grab some boards and throw down some dunks for us, he's cool with me. I'm excited about Bonner too, hopefully he settles into a solid bench contributor.
Well, in a nuts , the Spurs have simultaneously put a premuim on athleticism and decided to pay their big men much closer to what they are worth. We don't know how it's going to work anymore than you do since we probably haven't seen anything like this from the Duncan-era Spurs before. Defintely makes things interesting.
"Nazr came in and got it right away en route to a le"
Absolutely not. Nazr "got it" not at all on defense, and was in the way on offense. This situation was a combinatoin of not learning the Spurs system AND having a BB IQ in single digits, and NO fundamentals.
I doubt this team will be able to match last year's regular season record, but I think they have a good shot at going to the finals. I think they will start somewhat slowly, but as the new guys get more comfortable, they will be an improved team over last year. I think they will have an edge to them this year that we have not seen before. It just feels like every player on the team has something to prove this year. Can't wait to get started.
I think you have to look at the offseason in the perspective of addressing the most glaring needs and, contrary to Angel's feeling of discombobulation, I think the Spurs have been quite orderly in going about their business and addressing multiple (and widely varying) needs.
In the aftermath of the Dallas series, it seemed clear to me that the Spurs needed to address a few things: (1) a wing player who can spread the floor on the offensive end and provide some length and athleticism on the defensive end against the longish 3's and perimeter-oriented 4's in the league; (2) a back-up point guard who can offer a net positive on either end of the floor; (3) more athleticism in the middle; (4) contracts that can provide either cap relief or attractive assets to make later deals; and (5) some youth.
I think they addressed needs 1 and 4-5 in acquiring Bonner and Eric Williams for Nesterovic. What Bonner actually will do remains to be seen, obviously. But given his track record, Bonner is a mobile, long-ish wing-oriented player who can offer some modi of defensive presence against long wings who play outside. In addressing that need, as it particularly applies to #41 in Dallas, I think the Finals made clear that you don't necessarily have to have a Marion-type to get that job done. The length and athleticism of guys like Haslem and Walker were useful enough that Miami didn't have to bring constant doubles to effectively defend Dirk. If Bonner can give the Spurs 12-17 minutes per night of effective nuisance time, where they don't have to bring doubles and can slide Bowen to Howard or Terry (in a matchup with Dallas), they can be effective defensively. If Bonner, in those minutes, can spread the floor on the other end and create driving opportunities for Parker and Ginobili by bringing a big man out to the arc, he'll be effective. Bonner is a smart kid and he appears to be mentally tough to boot. That suggests to me that he's the sort of guy that Pop loves and I suspect he'll be extremely useful to the Spurs for that reason.
In getting Bonner, they got Eric Williams' expiring contract and managed to dump the last few years of the outrageously expensive Rasho Nesterovic Experience. If Williams never plays a minute for the Spurs, he can be exceedingly useful if his deal can be packaged with another moveable asset to address another need down the road. Even if that doesn't happen, the expiration of his deal is worth something to a club that was facing some economic choices down the road, particularly with so much invested in a center who's skill set is pretty much out of vogue in the modern NBA.
Dealing Rasho left the Spurs with a need in the middle, but that need existed already as #3 on my list. I think there are competing concerns with finding a center these days. Obviously, it appears that the Spurs needed someone who brings some athleticism to that spot; but they also need someone with bulk who can bang with the big boys. Other than Ben Wallace, no single guy on the free agent market this summer brought the ability to do both of those things. Przybilla was close, but he's frequently injured and hasn't shown me yet that he can play effectively over the course of an entire NBA season (to say nothing of getting it done at playoff time). Rather than overpay someone who might or might not be able to address the competing needs, the Spurs did the logical thing -- they acquired two guys who seem to fit each aspect of that need. Elson is obviously a long, athletic center who can give the Spurs good minutes against teams with long, athletic front lines. Butler is a project, but if he proves he can play, he's a bulky, strong center who should be able to lay a body on guys like Shaq. In the end, that can be enough.
Finally, while it's conceivable to me that the backup PG situation resolves itself with a renewed commitment to Beno Udrih, I think it was a wise (and understandable) decision to seek out a defensive-minded, pass-first backup who has played relatively well for a taskmaster before. One thing that really killed the Spurs in the Dallas series was the backsliding they did when Parker had to sit; Pop got to the point that he almost had to keep Parker on the floor (and burn him down as a result) because NVE just couldn't get it done anymore. In sheer net terms during the playoffs, the Spurs were +2.6 with Parker on the floor each night and -7.0 with Van Exel on the floor each night (I'm not sure what those numbers were for the Dallas series specifically). In a series that was as close as the Mavericks series was, that's a monumental (and costly) difference. If the Vaughn/Udrih combination can bring the backup numbers up even slightly it could be the difference between winning and losing a close series. If one of those two can play effectively enough to give Parker a few extra minutes of rest every night, the positive of Parker should increase as well. That, again, could make all of the difference.
I'm with the crowd that believes that as long as Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili are healthy, the Spurs are among the 2-3 best teams in the NBA. I think the main complimentary players (Bowen, Finley, Horry) have a great run left in them. And I think the Spurs have done a great job of creating means to improve their useful depth to compliment those groupsby signing players who fit very specific needs while adding flexibility to a roster that became really, really short when exposed at playoff time. It was a systematic and focused makeover that I hope (and think) will end up proving successful.
you had me after the third paragraph!
You know what, who cares that we can't cover some of these guys? In 2004-05, Amare lit us up in the Western Finals. Did it really matter?
It doesn't matter if one guy beats us, it takes more than that to win a basketball game, especially to win 4 in a 7 game series. What does matter is if the entire opposing team beats us.
Also, we create match up problems for many teams, too.
JMark - you wanted what the Spurs expectations are for this year, and here is mine:
The Spurs do have a number of new faces, but fortunately they are of the role player variety. Bonner is a player with size that can shoot, and that could prove helpful in drawing a defending big out of the paint from time to time. Could open things up inside for penetration, as well as increased room for TD to operate. I think Vaughn, Bonner, Williams, Elson, and Butler are going to be in a situation where they are not going to be relied upon for big production, and as such may be able to find their role on this team and perform well.
Much talk on this board has been dedicated to the back ups and role players, but the big question is going to be the health and peformance of four players... TD, Tony, Manu, and Finley. If TD, Tony, and Manu can stay practically injury free and head into the playoffs with a lot in the tank - watch out. The fact that the Spurs were a couple of seconds and a bad foul away from beating the Mavs with none of the Big 3 very healthy is amazing in itself. If they are healthy and the role players are filling the gaps, the sky is the limit for this team.
Prediction - The Spurs start slowly (compared to 2005-06) due to a new starting C and many new role players. Wins anywhere from 54 to 62 finishing 1st or 2nd in the West.
Biggest Challenger - Mavs
Dark Horses - Suns, Clippers
Anywhere from Western Conference Finals to NBA Champs is a reasonable expectation of this team - taking into account injuries, team chemistry, and new acquisitions during the season. As long as the Big 3 are healthy and performing this team will be successful.
And to that we should add that the retention of Sam Presti was as big an offseason move as the other ones we made this offseason...
BTW, Do you think that Bonner or Elson will be able to defend on Dirk quite decently ?
Huh?! You won a le with him as a spot-starter at center and he was very good in many games. Last year his flaws got in the way, but that first year, his ability just fit better with what the Spurs both wanted to and were able to do.
I never said he got it mentally. In fact, I referenced his low basketball IQ in that very same post. What he got, was plenty of consistant playing time and situations where he could successfully contribute without doing much. His role was simple, but it worked. He averaged 7 points, 7 rebounds and a block a game in the playoffs in 2004-05 vs. Denver, Seattle, Phoenix and Detroit. That's pretty good for a player with just 23 games of preperation.
So please... Don't tell me he didn't "Get it", because his stats and your le beg to differ.
I suspect we'll find out a little bit about Bonner in that role on opening night.
He didn't get it.The Spurs won the le inspite of him, but he never got it while he was here. Always in wrong position offensively and never had a clue defensively.
You still have Oberto for Shaq, Yao and Ilgauskas.
I'm not sure what that means. Oberto is the smallest of our bigs. What would he do against those guys?
That's fine. I respect opinions of others in reguards to Nazr. I'm going to defer to Spurs fans in this regard, but will do so saying the following: I've seen Pop coach for years. He doesn't take lax play or incompetance. If Nazr was as inept as some here claim - that he never got it (with it, in my case, being role on the team) - then I find it very difficult to believe Pops would play him an average of 23 minutes a game, nor do I think Nazr would be capable of putting up 7-7-1 averages. Compare to Rasho's 15 games, 7.6 minute per game average.
Oberto is small, but he's a solid center and has experience and playing time within the system, so he's the smarter and more sure of the centers.
Good job, FromWayDowntown. I think that's a pretty decent assessment of the plan and its execution. Now if we could exchange Oberto for Cato and trade Williams' expiring $4mil for Bonzi, we'd have had a stellar A+ offseason. As it is, they are a solid B+/A- so far.
"average of 23 minutes a game,"
Nazr started but didn't play even 2 qtrs? indicates to me his time on floor was not valued much.
Somebody had to be out there to make 5 players, and Nazr and Rasho split the space-filling chore. The fact that neither Rasho or Nazr are Spurs now says how much Pop valued them.
His rebounding kept him in the game during the championship season. But other than that, he was never solid defensively. Rasho was solid on d in the post, but was waaaaay to slow. I understand what you're saying. I truly feel w/ out the Malik trade for Nazr, we would have lost to Detroit. A team like that required rebounding, but a team like Dallas, PHX, and SAC have 3's that rebound like 4 and 5's. They jump w/ a quicker take off which is something neither Rasho nor Nazr could do. I also think Butler and Elson are better offensively. Rasho sucked on O and Nazr scared me whenever he got the ball. He was most productive w/ putbacks, but other than that, all his shots were pure damn luck. The only thing I hate about Nazr leaving was the fact we couldn't trade him for a Jared Jeffries Jumaine Jones type of player (not that those guys were available for S&T situations, but you get the picture... long SF!
You should brush up a bit more on player rotation and impact because this is pretty ignorant, considering in the 2002-03 postseason, David Robinson started at center, yet played little more than 20 minutes a game while posting very similer averages of 7+ points, 6+ rebounds and 1+ blocks.
Not comparing the player, but merely the situation. If Nazr's 23 MPG, 7 ppg, 7 rpg, 1 bpg can be scoffed at with regards to his role within a rotation and on-court impact, then what should we make of Robinson's?
Probably significantly higher an impact, right?
Why? Because he was David Robinson?
Each player had limitations, yet each made roughly the same contributions within the same amount of playing time to exactly the same cause: a 23-game playoff series ending with a le.
I'll try to stop overvaluing Nazr (which is very odd, since I say you'll likely get to the Finals next year without him) if you stop belittle his contribution to the point where his production is passed off as laughable.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
