I'm trying to put to gether a season preview for the site I mod and am wondering if I can get some insightful, honest answers with reguards to your guys offseason. Please, try to avoid the emotional responses of "Sucked Donkey Ass" or the like...
For whatever reason, I like Bonner a lot and feel he'll add an additional frontcourt scorer to your squad, something missing for quite a while. Elson was a steal, 'specially if Pops can hone his timing and Butler should be a high impact role player for years to come.
I understand that losing Mohammed and Nesterovic hurts, but both were frightningly inconsistant in Pops' system.
I guess my question is this: What is your opinion of these additions and subtractions and of the lot, who will step up as an impact player and why and which loss will hurt the most?
I know some here fear the Spurs are attempting to go small-ball, but I think with Oberto, Elson and Butler, that you're still pretty well stocked at the center position.
Thanks...
EDIT: Add another question: With all things considered (Dallas, Phoenix, Spurs offseason), what are your expectations (not hopes) for this coming season?
Wrong. "Losing" Nazr and Rasho was addition by subtraction. The plusses of Elson and Butler are as follows: Elson is quick and athletic enough to NOT make the Spurs go small, and Butler presents a matchup problem on D for Dallas; Dirk would either have to guard Tim or Butler in the post, and he doesn't have the size. Butler is a LOAD.I understand that losing Mohammed and Nesterovic hurts, but both were frightningly inconsistant in Pops' system.
yes, elson makes me see light to the question of, Can we matchup with dallas if they go small??
I think there is alot of apprehension around here because for all their inconsistencies, Rasho and Nazr were known quan ies in the Spurs' system. Rasho knew the defensive schemes very well and could block a shot or two a game, and Nazr could be a very strong rebounder and garbage scorer. Elson and Butler don't really seem to fit either mold at this point, and their signings may actually signal at least a partial abandonment of the offensive and defensive sets and philosphies that have been pretty succesful in the Duncan era. These changes may well be beneficial, and I'm not surprised a Sunfan could see them in a positive light. Many Spurfans agree, but many also had very specific notions about what was going to help this team and aren't afraid to say that the Spurs didn't meet their expectations this summer.
Me? I can see it going either way. Bonner would be a good addition in any case, but Elson and Butler are not good additions without the rather fundamental changes mentioned above, and it remains to be seen whether Pop can pull them off -- although the four guard lineup did do better than I expected in the playoffs. It's going to be an interesting year. We do seem to be building ourselves to counter Dallas and Phoenix now just as we did Utah and LA in the past. In doing so, we may have sacrificed some of our traditional effectiveness against the Shaqs and Yaos of the league, but it seems a choice had to be made.
My opinion, we gave up 2 avg. centers for 2 "cheaper" ones. Rasho didn't learn the system overnight and didn't play much d b4 arriving here. These new guys won't be any different. Plus Nazr never got it (did hit the o glass well though). And while elson is no Mr. Finesse, I'm sure his fingers aren't slippery like Nazr's and when the ball swings his way w/ 12 seconds still on the shot clock he won't try to live out his "Hakeem Dreams" instead of passing the ball back out. I don't think Nazr accepted his role on offense well and never got the defense. Butler, while young, can score around the basket which is why I wouldn't start him. It gives us something we've never had if he can produce like he did in N.Y., and that's post scoring from the bench. Plus, unloading those contracts, keeps us in le contention w/ our current core 3 for at LEAST another 4 years and the flexibility to extend it up to possibly another 5...... GO SPURS, GO!
The least we can do is make it the west finals. Anything below that will be a dissappointment.
I think what perplexes me is why all the articles that analyze the Spurs off-season compare the cost of Rasho and Nazr to that of Butler and Elson- like there was not the option of keeping one and bringing in Butler. I thought the Spurs were espousing the idea of needing to be flexible enough to match up with all teams, but they have instead gone too far the other direction, in my humble opinion. I guess they believe that the need to match up with certain teams that employ a tradtional scoring center is not worth the cost of keeping someone around to guard those players, but I think they will pay for focusing so much on matching up to one certain style of play. As stated above, it seems unrealistic to believe that the defensive schemes that the Spurs have long employed will be successful with the players signed this off-season. Supposedly, the big men are supposed to defend, block shots, and rebound and none of these new big men seem to be able to do any of that well. On the other hand, I actually believe that Rasho and Nazr combined did do this-- each did half of what the Spurs wanted their center to do-- Rasho defensively and Nazr rebounding and garbage points wise. It will take some time for me to believe that any of the current big men outside Tim will be able to do even that. It's a fact that in a season where Tim was hurt and Manu was hurt that the team won a franchise record number of games with Rasho and Nazr playing a combined 36 minutes per game-- averaging 10.7ppg; 9 rpg; and shooting a combined 51%. My other fear for the Spurs is that there will be yet another season of musical chairs with the big men. I still think that was a big mistake the Spurs made last season.
For $13 million though?Supposedly, the big men are supposed to defend, block shots, and rebound and none of these new big men seem to be able to do any of that well. On the other hand, I actually believe that Rasho and Nazr combined did do this-- each did half of what the Spurs wanted their center to do-- Rasho defensively and Nazr rebounding and garbage points wise.Yeah, and the team was a Manu foul away from beating Dallas with those two playing a combined nine minutes a game. I said before Rasho had gotten to the point where his contract was expendable; had either center played up to his contract, there would have been no musical chairs last season and at least one would still be here.It's a fact that in a season where Tim was hurt and Manu was hurt that the team won a franchise record number of games with Rasho and Nazr playing a combined 36 minutes per game-- averaging 10.7ppg; 9 rpg; and shooting a combined 51%.
And that's why Oberto is gonna lead the team with only 2.5 a year.
I said they could have kept one-- not both. That is my whole point. Why do people ALWAYS throw out their combined salary? What about Nazr and Butler for $7.4M? Or Rasho and Butler for $9.4M?
Who is going to guard Shaq- or Yao- or Ilgauskas?
Which player alongside Duncan will defend Brand and Kaman-- Camby and Martin-- Howard and Milicic--Okur and Boozer-- Krstic and Jefferson --or for that matter Bosh and Nesterovic?
I see a real problem defensively anytime the Spurs play a team with two decent big men as offensive options. The team has always had the luxury of putting Duncan on the less potent one. In this past season more and more that was the center and Rasho would end up covering the PF (eg, Bosh, Howard, Garnett...) So in these match-ups will we use Elson as the primary big defender-- because I don't see small ball as the answer.
And maybe had Rasho and Nazr played more minutes then the Spurs might have ACTUALLY WON!! Justifying the tactic employed only works if it was successful- and it wasn't.
Shaq,Yao,Ilgauskas-Duncan
Brand and Kaman-Horry.
Camby and Martin-Martin is frequently injured genius and will probably be traded or suspended by the team by then.
Howard and Milicic-You know you said Darko right?
Okur and Boozer-Okur shoots nothing but 3's against us so Boner can take him.
Krstic and Jefferson-Jefferson is a small forward so he'll be guarded by Manu or Bowen.
Bosh and Nesterovic-Rasho is probably the softest center there is. Anyone can take him.
oh dear.....Bosh and Nesterovic
Because you throw out their combined stats.I said they could have kept one-- not both. That is my whole point. Why do people ALWAYS throw out their combined salary?Here's what I don't get - you wanted for the Spurs to keep Rasho. Just say it. Don't pretend you would've been happy with keeping Nazr over Rasho.Who is going to guard Shaq- or Yao- or Ilgauskas?Jefferson? You need to update your depth chart.Which player alongside Duncan will defend Brand and Kaman-- Camby and Martin-- Howard and Milicic--Okur and Boozer-- Krstic and Jefferson --or for that matter Bosh and Nesterovic?
I see a real problem defensively anytime the Spurs play a team with two decent big men as offensive options.
Anyway the whole point is Spurs basketball as you knew it is dead.And if we had Elson and Bonner and Butler we might have won too. That's why changes are made.And maybe had Rasho and Nazr played more minutes then the Spurs might have ACTUALLY WON!! Justifying the tactic employed only works if it was successful- and it wasn't.
You tell 'em Chump.
Duncan will not start the game covering those centers listed and since when can Horry cover Brand?
The point of all those pairings- including Chris & Rasho and Darko & Dwight- is who gets the KEY assignment- not who gets Rasho but who gets BOSH? Not who gets Darko, but who gets HOWARD? Because it won't be Duncan. Duncan will cover Rasho and Darko.
Do people really believe that Elson can cover Howard, Bosh, Brand, and Garnett-- in addition to Yao, Shaq, and Ilgauskas? Because that is the job of a Spurs big man who plays alongside Tim Duncan. Oh yeah- and Dirk and Amare, too.
Why is it that Duncan will NOT guard Bosh and Howard? Because you said so?
For the Spurs sake- I think they should have kept Rasho.
For Rasho's sake, I am glad they didn't.
Both Kaman and Brand lit us up last season. I don't see our doing a much worse job.Duncan will not start the game covering those centers listed and since when can Horry cover Brand?Well, you have your answer then.The point of all those pairings- including Chris & Rasho and Darko & Dwight- is who gets the KEY assignment- not who gets Rasho but who gets BOSH? Not who gets Darko, but who gets HOWARD? Because it won't be Duncan. Duncan will cover Rasho and Darko.No one is expecting the new big men to guard them like Rasho. We are also not expecting them to have lead feet and a decided fear of dunking orange balls either. We'll see how it works out.Do people really believe that Elson can cover Howard, Bosh, Brand, and Garnett-- in addition to Yao, Shaq, and Ilgauskas? Because that is the job of a Spurs big man who plays alongside Tim Duncan. Oh yeah- and Dirk and Amare, too.
I hope he's worth what he's paid up there. He wasn't here.
elliotfan - Darko is going to be fantastic this year. He and Howard are the next Duncan and Robinson (in two or three years), seriously.
I think this entire discussion is moot until we see what sort of ball we are going to play this year. I think, after last season and the changes we've made, that the style of Spurs basketball is about to change.
Also, why is everyone writing off a 20yo BIG big man with good feet from improving as a defender? Butler is young and long and big, he moves well, why the couldn't he develop into a great defender under Pop and Tim???
As for Elson... shucks, I dunno. I say bring in Kelvin Cato for the min (he's still out there, right?), and send Oberto to whoever the will take him off our hands. That would give us our floor-running big (Elson), our low-post developing big (Butler), and a banger (Cato).
As for impact players this year, the usual suspects. However I think Bonner will pleasantly surprise (he can knock down the 3, and for a perimeter guy he's not a terrible rebounder - about 7/40 mins). Also, Williams' 12-15 minutes a night of hustle will earn him plenty of home-town fans; he's Malik without the terrible jump shooting and mitten-hands.
I think this year's team is versatile, and if the big 3 have minimal injuries, should be close to as good as last year's Spurs. We are one of four teams (Mavs, Suns, Heat) with a great shot at the championship, although I can also see this being the year of the underdog and the Clippers going all the way (call me crazy, but I've called it...). Someone from the West wins it this year.
Last edited by RuffnReadyOzStyle; 09-24-2006 at 10:21 PM.
Let's wait until he's proven to say that.
Yeah, even Kandi -- some guys are much more attractive when they cost the minimum.As for Elson... shucks, I dunno. I say bring in Kelvin Cato for the min (he's still out there, right?), and send Oberto to whoever the will take him off our hands. That would give us our floor-running big (Elson), our low-post developing big (Butler), and a banger (Cato).
No, Mr Elliot, the first bit I will say now. Darko will have a breakout year. See him in the last 20 games last year? The world championship?
The second part of my statement I will retract. D&D are the next version of the "Twin Towers" phenomonon... but no-one should be compared to OUR TTs, as they were the greatest ever. Fair enough?
Although I don't admit that Darko will be somewhat similar to the twin towers, he will have enough playing time to give himself a shot. Then there's a good chance of him making good use of it. Just like Beno.
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