Suns got screwed

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Seems to me like if anyone in the AT&T Center was whining last night, it was the guy in the cheap suit with the moustache masquerading as an NBA coach. Didn't see a technical called on him though.

[STEVEYCU]

In the game I saw the suns had a free throw to win the game with 1.5 left and CHOKED and then got beatdown in ot....... so how many chances should they have

[timvp]

In the game I saw the suns had a free throw to win the game with 1.5 left and CHOKED and then got beatdown in ot....... so how many chances should they have

Well said.

[stretch]

I'm not sure how it can be consistently applied. What is complaining/whining, and what is asking for an explanation? It's an inherently discretionary call and with human officials, the exercise of that discretion will always lead to inconsistency. For instance, Bavetta has about the slowest trigger in the NBA for technical fouls -- Bavetta has, for years, let players carry on and complain about calls, and rarely T's anyone up. On the other end of the spectrum are guys like Joey Crawford, who has about the quickest trigger in the NBA for doling out T's -- it seems sometimes like Joey gives out T's because a player thought something about him, without even saying it.

Under the new interpretation, a player who is insistent that a foul should or should not have been called is still going to be viewed differently by Bavetta and Crawford -- Bavetta is still more likely to see a guy who is animated and to asking pointedly for an explanation as only asking for an explanation (not a T under the new emphasis) while Joey might be quicker to T up a guy who is doing nothing other than asking for an explanation, without being animated or complaining. I don't see how the league can possibly change that, because short of outlawing any player communication with the game officials, it seems to me that there's no meaningful way to draw a bright-line rule concerning what is and is not acceptable. Officials interpret the way that players speak to them and that interpretation is inherently subjective.

And it's always weak to blame the result of a game on officiating. Always.

i agree. to blame that the Suns lost because no T was called is the lamest excuse ever.

[Obstructed_View]

Are you really so desperate for wins that you are wishing for a technical foul to be awarded to your team since your team can't actually win on the floor? I'm glad we have a couple of stand up Suns fans here to prove that they all aren't whining pussies.

[mavsfan1000]

Damn first Mohammad goes off on the suns and now Oberto. The suns just can't handle 2 7 footers in the paint I guess.

[Brutalis]

Refs are never going to call a foul that could change the outcome of a game.

Wow that's almost as dumb as the thread starter himself.

[dirk4mvp]

Refs are never going to call a foul that could change the outcome of a game.

Raja coulda wrapped the game up if he hit the ft.

[AZLouis]

Damn first Mohammad goes off on the suns and now Oberto. The suns just can't handle 2 7 footers in the paint I guess.

Or anybody wanting to play there for that matter.

Bynum 18 pts, 9 rbds
Harpring 17 pts, 4 rbds
Maggette 23 pts, 12 rbds
Oberto 22 pts, 10 rbds

None of these guys are the primary offensive focus on the team, nor even the primary "inside" guys for their teams either. Yet in 4 games this season the Suns have allowed them to run amok.

This after Antoni rubbed in our faces all summer about what an improved defense the Suns had.

Hollinger was able to conjure up some stats that put the Suns #2 behind SA throughout half of last season until Crazy Eyes went down.

[timvp]

@ Antoni smack

[Obstructed_View]

@ Antoni smack

You forgot the D'

Oh, wait...

[Willinsa]

I thank ESPN for agreeing with me:

"With the news that players union president Billy Hunter might challenge the new technical foul guidelines, we haven't heard the last of these issues. At the very least, the league's enforcement must be made consistent. After all, just one T charged to Tim Duncan in the fourth quarter Wednesday night would have given Steve Nash a free throw and the Suns a win. But Whiny Tim was allowed to bicker without penalty, and the Spurs won in OT. "

Guys who have rings get some no calls and others don't, and as I recall phoenix has zero les so please STFU.

[Axl Van Dam]

I thank ESPN for agreeing with me:

"With the news that players union president Billy Hunter might challenge the new technical foul guidelines, we haven't heard the last of these issues. At the very least, the league's enforcement must be made consistent. After all, just one T charged to Tim Duncan in the fourth quarter Wednesday night would have given Steve Nash a free throw and the Suns a win. But Whiny Tim was allowed to bicker without penalty, and the Spurs won in OT. "

WHINER! WHINER! WHINER! WHINER! The Suns screwed themselves by not being able to protect a nine point lead in the payoff period. Talk about a MAJOR MELTDOWN. Also I suggest you enroll your team to a 2 seminars en led 1. HOW TO PLAY DEFENSE 2. HOW NOT TO SUCK IN THE 4TH QUARTER with a nine poit lead.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

for all the talk about the suns getting "screwed by the refs" while i agree the suns had some sketchy calls against them, let us NOT FORGET the MULTIPLE times parker got CLOBBERED in the lane in the first quarter. I honestly saw at least 3 instances where TP deserved FT"s but absolutely nothing was called.

Now, some of you may say "oh well it wouldn't have been game changing cuz it happend in the first quarter"

but that's wrong, I'm sorry

with the game so tight at the end, ANY free throw, regardless of what quarter it was scored in will affect the outcome of the game.

So for all the talk about the suns deserving that one technical free throw, how about in exchange we get 6 free throws from shooting fouls?

[jmard5]

And I believed Stu Jackson mentioned that there's a certain degree of restraint by some refs for the type of complaining a player is doing. If you complain and curse and shout, then by all means a T is given. Duncan and LeBron can get away with these because of their on-court/off-court personalities unlike Sheed. I haven't watched the game so I really don't know how far did Duncan complain.

I'm not also good with these zero-tolerance policy. It's crap.

And how sure are you that Nash will be able to can that freethrow even if he is a good FT shooter. There are a lot of "ifs". And I do concur, blaming a Suns loss due to a non-called T is ridiculous.

[jmard5]

Damn first Mohammad goes off on the suns and now Oberto. The suns just can't handle 2 7 footers in the paint I guess.

Oberto is not a 7 footer.

[Zunni]

Oberto is not a 7 footer.

Neither is Tim.

[SenorSpur]

The Suns blew yet another healthy and screwed themselves.

Educate these fools

[himat]

These rules are BS and inconsistant. That one tech was not the reason the Spurs won though, it was more of Oberto stepping up. I do think the refs have to be more consistant though. They can't be unfair to people with bad reps (Sheed), everyone should be given a fresh start.

[freedom&justice]

Refs are never going to call a foul that could change the outcome of a game.

Oh yes they will. They already have.

[RonMexico]

i wouldnt say they got screwed. they simply didnt play well enough to win. you shouldnt have to win a game with a technical foul called on the other team. winning a game that way doesnt prove anything, and is about the lowest quality win you can possibly have.

however, i do agree that the technical rule needs to be more consistent. some people get ridiculous technicals just because refs dont like them (Rasheed). others get away with a ridiculous amount of crap though (in your case Duncan, even though i never saw the game, and how much he actually complained, although Popovich and Horry got away with one against the Mavs when they were screaming right in the refs face for like 10 straight seconds. but other players get away with arguing quite a bit too.)

either way, to say your team got screwed because a technical foul for arguing wasnt called, is about the tiest excuse for a loss.

Either way, it would have been a FT to win the game - Raja Bell's or a Technical... where they really got screwed was with respect to the touch fouls on Amare and the blown 24-second violation call. I can agree that one might think it's a change of possession, but the officials have always had a quick whistle in that situation and have prevented the Suns' fast breaks for years... why do they choose to swallow the whistle in this game and then allow Parker to slap down at the ball and pick up pivotal foul on Amare?

[mavsfan1000]

Glad to know someone is getting the raw end of the refs. Not just the mavs.

[RonMexico]

for all the talk about the suns getting "screwed by the refs" while i agree the suns had some sketchy calls against them, let us NOT FORGET the MULTIPLE times parker got CLOBBERED in the lane in the first quarter. I honestly saw at least 3 instances where TP deserved FT"s but absolutely nothing was called.

Now, some of you may say "oh well it wouldn't have been game changing cuz it happend in the first quarter"

but that's wrong, I'm sorry

with the game so tight at the end, ANY free throw, regardless of what quarter it was scored in will affect the outcome of the game.

So for all the talk about the suns deserving that one technical free throw, how about in exchange we get 6 free throws from shooting fouls?

Your use of the term "Clobbered" is a little too extreme. Parker is small guy and he would get in the lane, but he would also contort and stretch his body to get a shot off - where even the smallest contact (or none at all) will cause him to go flying because he's off balance. There were a few that could have been called, but then Barbosa and Nash rarely get those same calls when they get in the lane (they're both as good at driving the lane as Parker), so it kind of balances out in that regard. If only those three guys could be as sexual as Dirk and feel the need to throw their bodies into players and into the ground, then maybe 100-yr old refs like Bavetta will blow the whistle.

[virtual_9]

Note to other Suns fans - let's give it up with the whiny complaining about the refs. It was just another regular season game anyway.

Personally, I don't think the Spurs will stand a chance against the Suns once they're fully up to speed. The Suns played like caca and still almost beat the Spurs. Of course, the Spurs aren't exactly in midseason form. But the point is that they're almost equally good right now, and that the Suns have a LOT more room for improvement.

So they had their best game this season. Doesn't say much - except to say that they've been waaaaay underperforming this season. The tide's already changing, and in another 10 games, the Suns are going to look really good.

Wait until the Suns finish integrating the pick-n-roll into their run-n-gun offense. Wait until the Suns get the lineup they built to beat the Spurs - Nash + Raja + Marion + Amare + KT into the lineup for longer than 30 seconds. Wait until Amare gets the rest of the rust off, and the rest of his confidence back. Wait until D'Antoni gets wise, and decides not to double-team off the opposing center.

Come May, the Spurs won't stand a chance. Not because the Spurs are not a great team, but because this year's Suns is going to be something special.

[mavsfan1000]

Note to other Suns fans - let's give it up with the whiny complaining about the refs. It was just another regular season game anyway.

Personally, I don't think the Spurs will stand a chance against the Suns once they're fully up to speed. The Suns played like caca and still almost beat the Spurs. Of course, the Spurs aren't exactly in midseason form. But the point is that they're almost equally good right now, and that the Suns have a LOT more room for improvement.

So they had their best game this season. Doesn't say much - except to say that they've been waaaaay underperforming this season. The tide's already changing, and in another 10 games, the Suns are going to look really good.

Wait until the Suns finish integrating the pick-n-roll into their run-n-gun offense. Wait until the Suns get the lineup they built to beat the Spurs - Nash + Raja + Marion + Amare + KT into the lineup for longer than 30 seconds. Wait until Amare gets the rest of the rust off, and the rest of his confidence back. Wait until D'Antoni gets wise, and decides not to double-team off the opposing center.

Come May, the Spurs won't stand a chance. Not because the Spurs are not a great team, but because this year's Suns is going to be something special.

Wait until Nash and the suns start playing defense. Oops I think they forgot something there.