FRIGGIN NO!!! Vaughn is terrible. i think pop is just too hard on beno. if beno did some of the dumb crap vaughn did, he would have been benched. vaughn was out of control, and he dribbles the ball too much, once resulting in a 3 second violation on timmy because he was calling for the ball while jacque was dribbling in place. terrible.
beno's defense is underrated. i remember when tony couldnt stay in front of earl friggin boykins, and when beno came in, it was shutdown city. for some one so quick on offense, tony has a lot of trouble staying in front of his man.
completely disagree when you are talking about the whole season, so far. He has played spectacularly well. I'm not normally a big fan of Beno's, but he has played extremely well so far.
Tony and Beno both played a lot less than usual. Neither were particularly effective at running the offense. That's why Vaughn played, imo.
Beno's individual stats are not anything spectacular when he's played but I found an interesting stat on 82 games.
When Parker is on the court 53% of our field goals are assisted.
When Beno is on the court 69% of our field goals are assisted.
Beno might not have a high assist rate but the ball is moving around a lot more when he's out there than when Parker is out there.
I think that's an important aspect of what he brings to the team.
If you think Vaughn is our answer at point timvp then I think you're way off base. Vaughn can't spread the floor and isn't a scorer. Yes his defense is better than Beno's but we need Beno's scoring and superior passing on our second unit. That much was clear in the 3rd and 4th quarter last night when Vaughn was out there taking ill-advised shots and charging into the teeth of the defense trying to force the issue.
All our players have defensive lapses but you have to go with the player with the superior talent. Beno deserved to be benched in the 2nd but not in the 4th.
Wasn't it just a week or so ago that pop said Beno was really playing well. I don't understand his coaching decisions on personnel and during games. If Pop wanted Beno as the backup, then let him play.
Sometimes a player will get beat a couple of times and suddenly finds out what is happening and 'gets it' and plays better. Sometimes a player is just overmatched by another player on offense--but he can still run the team and make some shots on his own. Tal\king a player out of the rotation for a couple of bad plays is stupid. Everyone makes mistakes.
You can't expect ANY player, much less a backup, to consistently beat every opposing player in every category. If they could, they'd be playing in the All star game. Even Parker got torched a few times by the Dallas guards last year and this game as well.
Pop has been quoted as saying Beans is the team's best passer. Pop playing the baby and pulling him in the first half is one thing. But to purposely hurt the team's chances of winning by not reinserting your backup PG in the second half (like you did with Horry and Finley) to see if he's got his head back is just stupid.
There's no s in Jacque. Just like there's no jumpshot in his game.
Vaughn had the best +/- on the team last night. But like I've always said, Vaughn is a third point guard -- not a backup point guard. I'm still hoping Beno can win the job for another reason other than the Spurs have no one else to go to.
The difference is Beno used to make shots.
2004-2005 : .408 3P%
2005-2006 : .343 3P%
2006-2007 : .240 3P%
Pretty soon he's going to be shooting a negative percentage.
If by underrated you mean overrated, I agree with you.
When Beno's been on the court this season, the opponents are shooting 51.1% from the field. That is freakin' astronomical. He's played plenty of minutes so this isn't a fluke.
He hasn't put any effort into his defense other than a few games and it's costing the Spurs. If the Spurs were playing defense 4 on 5, they still shouldn't be allowing 51.1% field goal percentage.
Spectacularly well? Have you looked at any numbers?
Tony played three more minutes than he averages for the season.
Beno was benched because the Mavs had plays designed to take advantage of his weak defense and the plays worked on back-to-back possessions.
Fact.
Where did I say Vaughn is the answer? I've been on record and I stay on record saying Vaughn is a third string point guard. That said, Beno has played a lot of games this year where he's played like a fourth string point guard.
If he's not going to bring effort defensively, I don't agree with letting him have the backup point guard job just because the Spurs have no other options. Beno needs to start trying and it'd help if the entire Spurs Nation including the coaching staff stopped giving him a free pass.
And I said the same. Better to find out now if the Spurs have to trade for a backup point rather than in the Finals like last time.
Again, I want Beno to succeed and be a solid backup point for the Spurs but so far this year his lack of defense and lack of being able to hit shots has made him a liability in more games than not.
Opponents Field Goal Percentage with Beno Udrih on the Floor
2004-05: 45.2%
2005-06: 46.8%
2006-07: 51.1%
When does it come the point where Beno is accountable for his defense? Everyone wants to just give him a free pass but I think he needs to actually try on defense from time to time.
A shooter shouldn't stop shooting even after a 10 bad games streak.
Udrih is a good shooter, his shoot will come back (it's true too for Finley).
Damn, you guys need to learn how to use the verb shoot/shot.
It hurts my eyes reading this.
Beno's always been aggressive with the shots, it just seems his selection isn't as good this season.
I want to believe that but Udrih's best two months of his career shooting the ball were his first two months in the NBA. I hope he's just been off since then rather than other teams adjusting to his game.
But he's so cuuuuuute!
So you ask Beno to be a 49% 3 point shooter?
To me, 36% (like after the ASG last year) is enough.
You must have only watch the 1-2 games where he played decent. The rest of the season, he's been horrible.completely disagree when you are talking about the whole season, so far. He has played spectacularly well. I'm not normally a big fan of Beno's, but he has played extremely well so far.
So you agree that the 20% or whatever he is shooting right now isn't enough, correct?
Of course, I've never said that it was enough.
If Beno can shoot 44% from the floor, 35% from three and average 8 assists per 48 minutes, I'd be happy. And then on defense, he needs to get back to how he was playing as a rookie. Right now, he's shooting 35% from the field, 24% from three and averaging 6.1 assists per 48 minutes ... and opponents are shooting 51.1% when he's been on the floor.
And honestly, I'd settle for better defense and more passing. Right now he comes into games thinking shot first. He's supposed to be the playmaking point guard who gets everyone involved when Tony Parker rests. But as it is, Tony averages more assists per minute even though his job is to score and Beno's job is to pass.
I'm wondering how much Pop has to do with this mindset after watching Vaughn....maybe he wants them thinking score first. Im my wildest dreams I can't imagine Vaughn thinking he was supposed to take over the game in the 4th last night without Pop encouraging that sort of thinking.
I've never known Vaughn to be a chucker like that prior to the Spurs...and usually guys are hesitant to shoot if left to their own devices when first coming to the Spurs.
Yeah, I was thinking he got the green light as an experiment. I know it pisses people off, but it is November after all.
Does anyone remember that when Parker first started for the Spurs he was always looking pass first...you have to go way back to remember that but I remember it...I remember Drob and Duncan being stunned to find the ball in their hands right under the basket when Parker had sure layups.
That's why to this day I still say Parker is a better passer than he shows...he showed it when he first started.
I know there isn't...There's no s in Jacque. Just like there's no jumpshot in his game.
...I'm just saying there should be.
Last edited by Slomo; 11-25-2006 at 07:14 PM.
And at the same time the le of your thread is JV > BU ??
Vaughn Did A Very Solid Job Last Night. Exspecially On The Defensive End Of The Floor. And On The Offensive Side He Did Alright. But You Gotta Remember That We Didn't Have Ginobili For The Entire 4th Quarter, So If Manu Was In There With Vaughn Then I Think Our Offense Would Of Done Pretty Well And We Would Have Won The Game.
If Beno is going to play like a fourth string, it's a true statement.
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