Who is Jamil Hussein?

[ChumpDumper]

, we went to war based on that was made up. Why is anyone surprised now?

[Nbadan]

This is like trying to exagerate the sinking of the anic. Why? If it's true it could be psy-ops to undermine the credibility of real tragic news stories coming from legit sources in Iraq.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, the AP went back and got cooboration for the disputed story:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/i...raq-fire_x.htm

It mentions the Jamil issue as well. We'll see where it goes from here.

[Bob Lanier]

Wait, wait, wait - did Yonivore just try to support his argument with a link to something called "confederateyankee.mu.nu"? Extremely credible?

[ChumpDumper]

"mu.nu -- your security blanket on the web"

Actual site le.



Yoni just got a new nickname.

[Yonivore]

Wait, wait, wait - did Yonivore just try to support his argument with a link to something called "confederateyankee.mu.nu"? Extremely credible?

Who links to Michael Yon and Pat Dollard and they are extremely credible.

[Yonivore]

"mu.nu -- your security blanket on the web"

Actual site le.



Yoni just got a new nickname.

I'm still waiting for a list of your credible sites.

[ChumpDumper]

For what?

A man that may or may not exist?

I said the AP went back and got corroboration. Feel free to go there yourself to debunk them, Linus.

[Yonivore]

For what?

A man that may or may not exist?

I said the AP went back and got corroboration. Feel free to go there yourself to debunk them, Linus.

Who corroborated their story?

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not going to read the story for you, Linus.

[gtownspur]

I'm not going to read the story, Linus.

Fixed it.

[ChumpDumper]

RIF, .

[Yonivore]

I'm not going to read the story for you, Linus.

Although I liked gtownspurs fix "I'm not going to read the story, Linus," because, well, you probably didn't; I went back and re-read it.

For those of you who might have forgotten how this got started, it went a little something like this:

Six burned alive in Iraq

BAGHDAD, IRAQ -Revenge-seeking militiamen seized six Sunnis as they left Friday prayers and burned them alive with kerosene in a savage new twist to the brutality shaking the Iraqi capital a day after suspected Sunni insurgents killed 215 people in Baghdad's main Shiite district.

Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in Friday's assault by suspected members of the Shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed at least 19 other Sunnis, including women and children, in the same neighborhood, the volatile Hurriyah district in northwest Baghdad, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein.

Most of the thousands of dead bodies that have been found dumped across Baghdad and other cities in central Iraq in recent months have been of victims who were tortured and then shot to death, according to police. The suspected militia killers often have used electric drills on their captives' bodies before killing them. The bodies are frequently decapitated.

But burning victims alive introduced a new method of brutality that was likely to be reciprocated by the other sect as the Shiites and Sunnis continue killing one another in unprecedented numbers. The gruesome attack, which came despite a curfew in Baghdad, capped a day in which at least 87 people were killed or found dead in sectarian violence across Iraq.

In Hurriyah, the rampaging militiamen also burned and blew up four mosques and torched several homes in the district, Hussein said.

Residents of the troubled district claim the Mahdi Army has begun kidnapping and holding Sunni hostages to use in ritual slaughter at the funerals of Shiite victims of Baghdad's raging sectarian war.

Such claims cannot be verified but speak to the deep fear that grips Baghdad, where retaliation has become a part of daily life.

President Jalal Talabani emerged from lengthy meetings with other Iraqi leaders late Friday and said the defense minister, Abdul-Qader al-Obaidi, indicated that the Hurriyah neighborhood had been quiet throughout the day.

But Imad al-Hasimi, a Sunni elder in Hurriyah, confirmed Hussein's account of the immolations. He told Al-Arabiya television he saw people who were drenched in kerosene and then set afire, burning to death before his eyes.

Two workers at Kazamiyah Hospital also confirmed that bodies from the clashes and immolation had been taken to the morgue at their facility.

They refused to be identified by name, saying they feared retribution.

And the Association of Muslim Scholars, the most influential Sunni organization in Iraq, said even more victims were burned to death in attacks on the four mosques. It claimed a total of 18 people had died in an inferno at the al-Muhaimin mosque.

That is how the story was reported by the Associated Press, and yet, much of what was stated in this article is unsubstantiated. In fact, this may be a story that never was.

We know several things about this original article are categorically false. We know that though the Associated Press article claims four mosques were burnt and blown up, that simply didn’t happen. One mosque had its doorway set on fire which was extinguished, and graffiti was painted on the building. Limited fire damage and spray paint on one mosque is a far, far cry for four mosques being blown up.

We also know that "police Capt. Jamil Hussein," who was the key witness leaning credibility to the AP’s allegations, simply does not exist. The Iraqi interior ministry has confirmed that they have no employees by the name of Jamil Hussein, as a police captain or otherwise… and yet, the fictional Captain Hussein has been a source in no fewer than 61 AP stories.

al-Hasimi (alternately al-Hashimi), the Sunni elder who is credited with witnessing the attack in the original story, now says that he did not.

Even the most key element of the story, that six men had been burned alive, seems to be false.

Nevertheless, the AP circled the wagons and continues to insist the story is real, despite the overwhelming evidence that mosques were not burned and blown up. 18 people did not die "in an inferno" at the al-Muhaimin mosque, for the al-Muhaimin mosque was never destoryed, just as six men were never pulled into the street, doused in kerosene, and set on fire.

This entire series of events is an apparent fiction from which the Associated Press will not back down, and a lie to which the new York Times seems unwilling to seriously question.

There are no charred bodies numbering between 6-18, nor four blown-up mosques, nor a police captain named Jamil Hussein who has been cited in 61 media reports. In one of the most graphic images of sectarian violence manufactured in the Iraq war yet, this incident seems quite entirely fabricated out of thin air. No other news organization will back the Associated Press’s account of burning mosques and men. Even Rueters cannot find the artificial police captains or anonymous sources to back such a claim.

If the Associated Press produces evidence that Jamil Hussein exists, or else admits that they were duped as part of a long running insurgent propaganda campaign, we can at least say the Associated Press got the wrong facts via an honest attempt to report the news. They can then go back and see if they can verify if the other 60 stories they wrote consulting the imaginary captain were real, or also part of a work of extended insurgent fiction.

Instead of looking for the truth, however, Kathleen Carroll seems to be rallying the troops around a "fake, but accurate" defense.

That response hasn't worked out too well for Mary Mapes and Dan Rather, and I suspect that it won't work much better for Kathleen Carroll, and the curiously incorporeal captain, Jamil Hussein.

[ChumpDumper]

Credit the blogs you steal from, Linus.

Good to know everything is perfect in Iraq and that bad ol' AP lied about everything that ever happened there. We can now stay the course.

[Yonivore]

Credit the blogs you steal from, Linus.

Good to know everything is perfect in Iraq and that bad ol' AP lied about everything that ever happened there. We can now stay the course.

I guess your meter only goes full left or full right. Why does the discovery of the AP lying have to necessarily mean we're claiming all is pollyannaish in Iraq? I do think things are much better than is being portrayed in the media...and, I believe that because of revelations like this.

You're kind of like the sore loser bully who, when caught cheating, messes up the board and walks away.

The Associated Press is a major contributor, along with Reuters (caught fabricating news in Lebanon), to almost every newspaper in the country. Don't you think that if they are caught lying about a major story, it should be major news and that they should be raked over the coals for it?

I guess not.

[101A]

I guess your meter only goes full left or full right. Why does the discovery of the AP lying have to necessarily mean we're claiming all is pollyannaish in Iraq? I do think things are much better than is being portrayed in the media...and, I believe that because of revelations like this.

You're kind of like the sore loser bully who, when caught cheating, messes up the board and walks away.

The Associated Press is a major contributor, along with Reuters (caught fabricating news in Lebanon), to almost every newspaper in the country. Don't you think that if they are caught lying about a major story, it should be major news and that they should be raked over the coals for it?

I guess not.

No, but if Fox puts the wrong label on a Republican child molestor, we'll get 3 threads about it...

Priorities, Yoni.

[ChumpDumper]

I do think things are much better than is being portrayed in the media

So well that the new Secretary of Defense says we're not winning.

You can rake whomever you want whenever you want. The fact the AP has to rely on Iraqis for their stories speaks for itself.

[Yonivore]

So well that the new Secretary of Defense says we're not winning.

Probably got that impression from the media. He also said he doesn't believe we are losing either. What! Don't tell me the media didn't report that part.

You can rake whomever you want whenever you want. The fact the AP has to rely on Iraqis for their stories speaks for itself.

Yeah, it says they're chicken s or lazy, or both. There are plenty of reputable and legitimate embeds from whom the AP could quote and get stories.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably got that impression from the media.

So you're saying he's ignorant now.

He also said he doesn't believe we are losing either. What! Don't tell me the media didn't report that part.

again! Is he saying we're tying in Iraq? There are only three choices here. The news is he said we weren't winning when Bushie said we absolutely were winning. Who's right, Linus?

Yeah, it says they're chicken s or lazy, or both. There are plenty of reputable and legitimate embeds from whom the AP could quote and get stories.

Why are there embeds in a safe, flourishing democracy?

[Yonivore]

So you're saying he's ignorant now.

No, I was being flippant. Sorry to confuse you.

again! Is he saying we're tying in Iraq? There are only three choices here. The news is he said we weren't winning when Bushie said we absolutely were winning. Who's right, Linus?

Well, considering he's coming from a public sector job outside the defense establishment, he answered the question as best he could based on the information he has to date.

In response to the question asked, he said he, "...believes the United States is neither winning nor losing, 'at this point.'"

In a pre-hearing questionnaire, he had this to say about Iraq.

"I agreed with President Bush’s decision to go into Iraq. Our men and women in uniform and our coalition partners have served admirably there, and, if confirmed, I look forward to working with them on a daily basis to help make the future better for the Iraqi people.

There is no question that Saddam Hussein’s regime was a dangerous and disruptive force in the region. By the late 1990s, it was clear that his dictatorial regime needed to be removed from power. The Oil for Food program was a failure. Saddam’s continual defiance of the international community was unacceptable.

In 2002, I supported UN Resolution 1441, which called for immediate and complete disarmament of Iraq’s illegal weapons in order to give inspections another chance. Again, Saddam thumbed his nose at the international community. I believed that he possessed WMD or the capacity for building WMD, and that with the collapse of sanctions he would aggressively pursue an effort to increase his WMD capability.

I believe that leaving Iraq in chaos would have dangerous consequences both in the region and globally for many years to come.

Frankly, I'm not surprised the media would report only half the answer and declare that Gates believes we are not winning, or as Yahoo! News reported:

Why are there embeds in a safe, flourishing democracy?

Because there are units in which to embed. Otherwise, they'd be roving reporters. Oh, and I would call them a "fledgling" democracy. Not yet flourishing.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, considering he's coming from a public sector job outside the defense establishment, he answered the question as best he could based on the information he has to date.

Linus, he was a member of the Iraq Study Group. Do you think he might have learned something about Iraq in his time as a member of the Iraq Study Group? Yes or no, Linus.

Because there are units in which to embed. Otherwise, they'd be roving reporters.

And why can they not rove in a peaceful, flourishing, safe democracy such as Iraq where everything is better than anyone could possibly know including members of the Iraq Study Group, Linus?

[johnsmith]

The Linus thing was funny at first, but now you're just over-using it.

[spurster]

I listened to an interview of a women Iraqi journalist today on NPR. Among the things she has to do are:

1) She doesn't tell her family or relatives that she is a reporter.
2) She doesn't use her full real name on any of her reports.
3) Interviews are done as quickly as possible to avoid being a target.
4) She dresses like a Sunni or Shiite when in their areas to avoid being a target.

Basically, life is slowly downhill from the few months after the American invasion.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6581029

[ChumpDumper]

The Linus thing was funny at first, but now you're just over-using it.

I'm not doing it for you.

[Yonivore]

Linus, he was a member of the Iraq Study Group. Do you think he might have learned something about Iraq in his time as a member of the Iraq Study Group? Yes or no, Linus.

Yep but, again, He didn't say we were losing either.

And why can they not rove in a peaceful, flourishing, safe democracy such as Iraq where everything is better than anyone could possibly know including members of the Iraq Study Group, Linus?

For the same reason you can't rove in peaceful, flourishing South Central Los Angeles -- it's dangerous.

Again, your needle is either point left or right. Why can't there be a middle ground?