Who is Jamil Hussein?

[101A]

Why, with the war going so poorly, do "they" make crap up?

The link takes you to a blog by Austin Bay. To get the full gist of the story, you have to follow at least of couple of links there; that's why I didn't post the text.

Anyway, the deal is there have been several stories, some horrific, about going's on in Iraq reported whose source was credited as "Captain Jamil Hussein". All the stories are of a, "this war is going horribly and is hopeless variety", and date back throughout this year. Problem is, Hussein doesn't exist, and there is no corroboration for the stories beyond him. These are AP, and have been picked up by many of the major networks and outlets; and run as gospel truth.

Why is this happening?

[xrayzebra]

I heard this on the news yesterday. Why am I not surprised. Well first, NYT cant
wait to publish classified information that hurts our country. MSNBC makes a
political decisiion to call Iraq a civil war and AP has certainly not been a fan of
United States in any of their stories.

It seems no one but us war mongers want us to win this war. I have to wonder
on who's side the media is on most of the time.

But I would almost bet you that nothing will come of this information about Hussein.
Just like some other false stories that have come to light. They die a slow,
natural death.

[101A]

... They die a slow,
natural death.

"Buried" as this story will no doubt be, causes quick death.

And why should it live? Obviously most people don't want to see, think about, or contemplate the ramifications of this level of consistent misrepresentation coming from the media.

Pravda, anyone?

Where are the people who are beside themselves with disdain about the exeutive branch misleading us to further its agenda, when the 4th branch does it to (apparently) further its own?

That begs the question: what is their agenda? How are they manipulating this DEMOCRACY - and to what end?

What is the result if the rule of the people is absolute, but the people are being mislead and never make informed decisions? Isn't that why the congressman who voted for allowing the president to get us into this war get a pass - because they were mislead?

The answer to those questions literally sends chills up my spine.

[boutons_]

Very worrisome, but if we ignore all stories sourced from "Captain Jamil Hussein", does dubya's Iraq catastrophe simply disappear.

Much more worrisome and fatal is the disinformation we get from dubya/ head/Army such as

WMD in Iraq,
Saddam-terror lin,
Saddam-WTC link,
"Mission Accomllished",
"last throes",
"stay the course",
"full speed ahead with current policy",
etc, etc.

You right wingers don't ask "Why is this happening?" in those cases.

[101A]

You right wingers don't ask "Why is this happening?" in those cases.

Bull I don't.

I very much question the motives of my government at all times. I question why oil companies are now the most profitable in the nation while we have two oilmen in the White House; just like I questioned why Wal Mart was the most profitable when Arkansas's governor was there!

I also feel sorry as for the people of Iraq.

My country invaded theirs.

My country toppled their leader and destroyed their infrastructure (such as it was).

My country has not done enough to prevent elements within, and from outside, their country from fomenting ancient bigotry and hatred and violence to the point that if their country isn't currently in a civil war, it soon will be. NOW, my country, like some big, out of control Loki, is tired of this amusing endeavor, has changed it's mind, and is planning to leave. In fact, those among us who claim the highest of moral ground, want us out yesterday. What a very nice treat for the citizens of Iraq! A gift from your benevolent superpower.

Whether you were for this war, or against it; YOUR country got into it, and needs to be big enough to stay until the job is done. At this point IT'S NOT ABOUT US ANYMORE! We owe it to them. Of course I understand that absolutes of right and wrong are real big on many of your radar screens.

Why does the world hate us? Because we are a bully? No. Because we are a fickle as bully..

[xrayzebra]

For boutons, you think the war in Iraq is as bad as portrayed by the media, well I
differ with you. Here is a letter, and it is an actual letter. I have deleted the
officers name, but you might find it interesting. Especially when you read the last
few lines.

Dear Family and Friends,
Another Thanksgiving come and gone. I got to sleep late today and woke up at 1130, just in time to go to the chow hall with my friend Chuck. The chow hall was festively decorated with fall colors and a lot of food and ice sculptures. the fare was turkey, stuffing, candied yams, shrimp tail and cheesy mac for me and for dessert a piece of chocolate cheese cake. After 20 minutes Thanksgiving was over. Then the jaysh al madhi started to mortar us, but none of the rounds made it on the FOB. they also mortared us about 45 minutes ago. You would think they would bring food and gifts to our pilgrim fort in the spirit of Thanksgiving, but no such luck. haha. Sadr city got messed up today with a few car bombs. So it serves them right. The Secretary of the Army visited our FOB today and sequestered himself in the patriot room of our chow hall and didn't come out. I guess he was deciding to go long, go short , or go home. he should have eaten with the troops, but i guess the 100 Pakistani and Indian workers were to much of a security risk for him. It was surreal eating our T-day meal next to so many foreigners.
Recently my team has been attached to a company of Infantry guys. It is a God send. They provide me with the protection I need to get my mission done. If anyone has seen the do entary Gunner Palace, that is where we stay. it is in the heart of Adhamiya right on the banks of the Tigris river. Adhamiya is the heart of the Sunni insurgency in Baghdad. Al Qaida is there in force, but every day their numbers get fewer and fewer because we are killing them or arresting them. Adhamiya has a big dilemma because there are many groups vying for power. There are a couple of gangs that are funded by Al Qaida and they do all the kidnappings and murders, then you have the JAM infiltrating from the shia areas outside of Adhamiya and a couple other Sunni extremist groups. The other day when Saddam was convicted to hang , alot of these bad guys came out with their AK47s and rpgs and tried to get tough, so the[B] infantry guys killed about 40 of them without suffering one casualty.{/B] It was a good day.
I have been talking to the local government a lot and they have just had an election of a new chairamn and seem like they want to improve the security of their city. this is the top priority for them, so we can oblige them by doing projects in their area. We have recently fixed all the sewer breaks and have brought the electricity up to 8-10 hours a day, which by our standards is horrible but to them it is a 1000% increase because they had none a few moths ago. we have recently started to refurbish a lot of the schools in the area. All this we use to leverage information about bad guys. So it is going well. I am back with my own kind.
My team is doing well and one of my specialists just got back from Italy. My team Sgt recently returned from Wisconsin and saw his daughter who is just about to take her first steps, he left when she was about 2 weeks old. I will take my leave in three weeks. I can't wait! It has been over a year since i have been home for any extended period of time. Two weeks will be great. It is all I can think about. the only thing I will have to worry about is which topping I want on my pizza. After my leave I will only have 4 months to go until I am home for good. 18 months is way to long to be gone, especially for this country, its not worth it.
I had a discussion with one of the members of the Adhamiya District council the other day . I asked him what he thought was the best way to improve the security of Adhamiya. he said " the US must pull out immediately and let us have our civil war, it is the only way for Iraq to become a country. we don't believe in the government of Iraq because it is sectarian and it favors shia, we don't get anything from the government." this is what i have to rationalize with. but he does have a point. All the Iraqis understand is bloodshed and the sword, they want the sword so I say give it to them. they kill each other already by the hundreds. The council member i was talking to said it would take about three months of civil war and then it would be over. I laughed in his face. it will take a long time, i believe if the US forces pulled out of adhamiya right now, the shia militias would run through this place and kill or displace everyone in this part of the city. So, i think he overestimates his position, but if that is what he feels then it will be impossible for me to change his mind, believe me I have tried. Any way, that is the news from the front.
I truly appreciate all the letters and packages I get from all of you. they are always morale boosters. I am thankful for a strong supportive family. I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving, and I am thinking about you.

[Extra Stout]

For boutons, you think the war in Iraq is as bad as portrayed by the media, well I
differ with you. Here is a letter, and it is an actual letter. I have deleted the
officers name, but you might find it interesting.

The letter says that Al Qaeda is there in force, though they are steadily being killed off, but that AQ is merely one faction among many fighting for power, and that even a member of the local council is eager for civil war.

Oh, and it says that the infrastructure is terrible, though it is better than it was a few months ago.

Oh, and our soldiers are still fighting hard and haven't given up.

How exactly does this differ from what the media is reporting?

[101A]

The letter says that Al Qaeda is there in force, though they are steadily being killed off, but that AQ is merely one faction among many fighting for power, and that even a member of the local council is eager for civil war.

Oh, and it says that the infrastructure is terrible, though it is better than it was a few months ago.

Oh, and our soldiers are still fighting hard and haven't given up.

How exactly does this differ from what the media is reporting?

Please find me report recently filed that indicates that either infrastructure is improving or that Al Queda is being killed off; I haven't seen it.

Also, if this letter was to be reported on, the headline would read:

"Sunni Leader says "Leave and let us have our Civil War"."

[Yonivore]

I notice the regular Bush-bashers are staying away from this story.

Here's a couple of perspectives in which I place a lot of credibility:

A Terminally Flawed Methodology

Kathleen Carroll, pretend I'm from Missouri: Show me Jamil Hussein!

Information Operations, Anyone?

And, if you combine the woefully inadequate reporting with the stupidity of the Left, it's impossible for the American public to be informed about what's happening in Iraq.

In a very important piece, wretchard, at The Belmont Club, makes a compelling argument for how things actually are. Most of the comments to his thread are fairly intelligent, as well.

But deliver us from evil

Granted, he appears to favor reconciliation with the Sunnis in order to quell the violence -- even while stating that may be impossible at this point -- so, I'll also point to one of the comments to his thread with which I agree.

Now let me see if I have this straight. Because the Sunnis lost, the US needs to do something to allow them to reestablish parity with the Shiites. The Sunnis have done everything possible to resists a stabilization of Iraq including the original election boycott. The only thing that can save the Sunnis is to help them establish a zone of security. Then what? What happens when secure, they decide it is time to reestablish their rightful place at the head of the table?

Nonsense. Translate Darwin into Arabic. Air drop the pamphlets on them and wish them well.

To which wretchard responded:

2164,

You've got a sense of humor don't you. I suppose there would be some justice in sending "Hope You Get Feel Better" cards to the Sunni insurgents from departing aircraft. But thinking back on history, it was the ironic priority of Truman to turn both Germany and Japan into prosperous powerhouses. The ultimate consequence of defeat for Japan was to be freed of its antiquated system and rise to the second largest economy in the world.

The ironies of fighting America. Once upon a time there was movie called the "Mouse that Roared" which was about -- well you know the story.

One of the standard jokes in the Philippines involves one penniless Filipino talking to another. Seemingly mired in poverty, one pauper concocts a plan to escape from penury. He tells the other, "let's convince the government to declare war on the United States. After we lose, we'll be incorporated as the 51st State and become rich Americans." The other man ponders the problem and comes up with an unanswerable objection. "Yeah, but what if we win?"

At least these people make intelligent arguments.

[clambake]

Things couldn't be better over there.

[boutons_]

The Marines themselves reported this week they are abandoning, (cutting/running) Anbar province to the Sunni insurgents allied to al Quaida, and moving back into Bagdad.

I'm sure the Marines could have "won" Anbar, but it was probably a case of too few Marine boots compounded by Bagdad going up in flames.

What's the point of winning Anbar but losing Bagdad?

[101A]

The Marines themselves reported this week they are abandoning, (cutting/running) Anbar province to the Sunni insurgents allied to al Quaida, and moving back into Bagdad.

I'm sure the Marines could have "won" Anbar, but it was probably a case of too few Marine boots compounded by Bagdad going up in flames.

What's the point of winning Anbar but losing Bagdad?

Not doubting you, B; but where did you get your info? How do we KNOW it is accurate?

[101A]

Things couldn't be better over there.

Way to add to the discussion.

That's NOT what this is about.

And again, how IS it going over there?

How do you know?

[George Gervin's Afro]

I have a suggestion for all of those who criticize the the media for what they report. Why don't all of you 'reporter wannabees' go to Iraq and report the good stories yourself? Complaining about it without offering a solution (where have you heard that before) is useless? Right? I find it hilarious that the same folks who whine about the biased coverage want no part in going over there and do it themselves.. If it is so good then all of you need to be there on the ground..

[Yonivore]

I have a suggestion for all of those who criticize the the media for what they report. Why don't all of you 'reporter wannabees' go to Iraq and report the good stories yourself? Complaining about it without offering a solution (where have you heard that before) is useless? Right? I find it hilarious that the same folks who whine about the biased coverage want no part in going over there and do it themselves.. If it is so good then all of you need to be there on the ground..

There are reputable people already doing that. Unfortunately, Reuters, the AP, and other news outlets won't use their stories because they don't fit the media's slant that America is losing in Iraq and that it's some kind of quagmire.

they'd rather depend on reports filed from a Baghdad hotel, informed by stringers of unknown repute or qualifications.

Here's two from whom you could learn much.

Michael Yon and Pat Dollard

Also, you could read blogs that rely heavily on in-country military connections...otherwise known as milblogs. There are dozens.

[clambake]

101A, all I know for sure is big changes have taken place. Rummies gone, senior is involved along with Syria and Iran, Al-Sadr's act is showing in the big room.

That's quite the flip-flop, wouldn't you agree?

[George Gervin's Afro]

There are reputable people already doing that. Unfortunately, Reuters, the AP, and other news outlets won't use their stories because they don't fit the media's slant that America is losing in Iraq and that it's some kind of quagmire.


SO if I am following correctly the AP and Rueters are in cahoots to portray that we are lsoing in Iraq? Let's assume your right don't you think that one person of authority in these organizations would have spoken out at the blatant slant and organizations actual ulterior motives? Or if I am to believe you..everyone is in on it and they have been able to silence every detractor ( if there is one) all of this time? Does that make any sense? Or is it easier to just label everyone becaue you don't like what they are reproting?

[101A]

101A, all I know for sure is big changes have taken place. Rummies gone, senior is involved along with Syria and Iran, Al-Sadr's act is showing in the big room.

That's quite the flip-flop, wouldn't you agree?

I don't understand your point, or how it relates to this thread. It's not about the WH - it's about apparent media manipulations of the information that is being provided to the citizens of this country through the major media outlets.

SINCE this is a democracy, those reports no doubt have an effect on how the war is going to be waged. Ultimately, the public WILL get what they (think) they want. A democracy runs on its knowledge. If that knowledge is wrong...again isn't that what all of you are SO pissed at GW for doing? LYING to get us into a war?

I guess it's okay for the media to lie to get us out? Is that why it's O.K?

[101A]

There are reputable people already doing that. Unfortunately, Reuters, the AP, and other news outlets won't use their stories because they don't fit the media's slant that America is losing in Iraq and that it's some kind of quagmire.


SO if I am following correctly the AP and Rueters are in cahoots to portray that we are lsoing in Iraq? Let's assume your right don't you think that one person of authority in these organizations would have spoken out at the blatant slant and organizations actual ulterior motives? Or if I am to believe you..everyone is in on it and they have been able to silence every detractor ( if there is one) all of this time? Does that make any sense? Or is it easier to just label everyone becaue you don't like what they are reproting?

This thread is about a series of reports, all damaging to the war effort which apparently never happened and all source a PERSON WHO DOES NOT EXIST!!!! What the are we supposed to think the purpose of it is? Can YOU explain it?

[George Gervin's Afro]

This thread is about a series of reports, all damaging to the war effort which apparently never happened and all source a PERSON WHO DOES NOT EXIST!!!! What the are we supposed to think the purpose of it is? Can YOU explain it?

I actually agree with you.. so would I be safe to assume that if we were given information from someone who either did not exist or was outright lying then we could in turn question the motives of those parties that used their information... is this right?


If someone knowingly used information they knew to be false or could not be verified and reported it as fact would be guilty as well correct?

[johnsmith]

I actually agree with you.. so would I be safe to assume that if we were given information from someone who either did not exist or was outright lying then we could in turn question the motives of those parties that used their information... is this right?


If someone knowingly used information they knew to be false or could not be verified and reported it as fact would be guilty as well correct?

Gosh, I wonder where you are going with this?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Gosh, I wonder where you are going with this?

There are some of us who questioned the motives of the administration but we were branded with many labels. What I was trying to point is that if those who support this administration question the motives of the media and the Dems..then they should also accept that the questioning of the administration's motives becuse of the sources they used as legit issue.. I took all of the names and players out of my post on purpose because I genuinely agreed with the post about using a source you know is not either ,verifiable , or is a known liar is wrong and those motives should be questioned.. I am not a hypocrite like some others on this board. You should agree with my previous post..take today's players out of it and you should agree 100%

[clambake]

In the big picture, how damaging do you think it is? How big a role do you think it has played? Do you think any actions were taken based solely on false reports? You have to accept the whole thing from conception has been chocked full of lies. Nobody has achieved a higher standard. Would the truth have made any real difference?

[johnsmith]

There are some of us who questioned the motives of the administration but we were branded with many labels. What I was trying to point is that if those who support this administration question the motives of the media and the Dems..then they should also accept that the questioning of the administration's motives becuse of the sources they used as legit issue.. I took all of the names and players out of my post on purpose because I genuinely agreed with the post about using a source you know is not either ,verifiable , or is a known liar is wrong and those motives should be questioned.. I am not a hypocrite like some others on this board. You should agree with my previous post..take today's players out of it and you should agree 100%

Yeah, I can agree with that.

[johnsmith]

In the big picture, how damaging do you think it is? How big a role do you think it has played? Do you think any actions were taken based solely on false reports? You have to accept the whole thing from conception has been chocked full of lies. Nobody has achieved a higher standard. Would the truth have made any real difference?

I don't think this particular story is all that damaging but it does bring up the question of how often has this happened? So the entire body of work may be more damaging then just this portion of it. Then again, maybe not.