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I agree, sounds like if anything TP's fourth quarter is the reason the boxscore was so close.
Good point, Shane.
Tony needs to teach Tim, the "Tin Woodman" from Wizard of Oz, about heart and toughness.
"TP plays lost"
not really, now that he has his jumper working well. If the Tim and paint is shutdown, Tony can still score.
I agree, sounds like if anything TP's fourth quarter is the reason the boxscore was so close.
I'm just glad we don't have LeBron James. The guy missed (er, "forced") three shots, missed 2 crucial FTs and committed a costly turnover in the 4th Quarter. It's like he was trying to GIVE us the game.
Dude sucks. He and Parker should be the starting backcourt for the worst team in the D-League.
Don't ever put TP and Lebron in the same paragraph... If Tim Duncan forces up bad shots I can live with that becuase he is our MVP.. The problem with Tim is that he is playing soft and whining about non-calls..
, MJ made errrors in the waning moments of games too. i guess he sucks too
Is it too much to ask that the biggest star in the league make every shot he takes and never turn the ball over? Ever? Is that too much to ask?
, MJ made errrors in the waning moments of games too. i guess he sucks too
So I guess our team is relegated to a high risk/ high reward team? I always thought of our team as a methodical machine that wears folks down.. but since I never watch any games what the do I know?
Manu scratched himself last night?! Damn, I missed that! Did anyone record the game?
Love ya Shoog!
Actually, yes. But I'm a realist in nature.
ShoogarBear is sensitive. He doesn't want you to fix it. He wants you to sympathize.
Exactly. Tony's effort was appreciated but it's not like he put the team on his back or anything. Cleveland was letting him get to the basket and trying not to foul. When the game was still in question in the fourth, both Tony and Manu were turning the ball over and making poor decisions.
I understand the point you're trying to make Shoogarbear but Tony is not known as a fourth quarter performer. Last night was no exception.
You TP hater..
Parker is playing better and better with years and TP haters are more and more rediculous and funny.
I'm not sure what Church I belong to. Some think I am anti-Manu, but I'm on record as saying Manu > Gervin in a must-win game. Some say I'm a Tony homer, then again I've call him out for disappearing and called him out for letting the Eva circus distract him from basketball. So I'm pretty sure I'm right down the middle between party lines.
That said, no question Manu is the Golden Boy of the team. He plays his 25 minutes and no matter what he does, Spurs fans love him. Last night he was 0-for-7 when it counted and defensively, he turned Larry Hughes into LeBron James. I don't know the last time I saw the Cavs win and it wasn't LeBron doing the damage.
Even with all that, the Golden Boy got almost no blame. Duncan and even Oberto got blamed much more ... and those guys actually produced a little bit. If Manu wasn't missing shots or playing bad defense, he was turning the ball over. It doesn't matter though because Manu is the most loved player in franchise history.
Tony, on the other hand, gets blasted regularly and rarely gets praised. Pop can tell him to shoot the ball 20 times and Tony can go out and follow orders ... and then Spurs fans will complain that he wasn't passing enough. If Tony would have been the one 0-7 while turning Eric Snow into LeBron, there'd be a 22 page thread calling for a Parker for Speedy trade. I don't want to even think what would have happened if it was Tony who fouled Dirk last year instead of Manu . . .
I think it mostly comes down to the positions they play. Tony plays the hardest position in the game and the easiest to criticize. Manu plays half the game and it's a lot harder for him to mess up. If he's scoring, the masses think he's doing his job. Tony has to score, set up his teammates, follow Pop's orders, manage the game ... all while being by far the youngest member of the core. And on top of it all, he's a y French kid ... and nobody likes the French
All in all, they are both very good players. It's impossible for me to say which one is more important to the team, because they are virtually the same in terms of value. If either one goes down, there is no championship. But I gave up a long time ago in hoping Spurs fan would be fair to them. Manu is the most loved person in San Antonio who can do no wrong. Tony is the point guard who doesn't pass it to Manu enough.
And it won't change.
in my short time on this board, you have voiced everything i have seen. and your take is spot on how i feel. my fav player is duncan and i'm chastising him hardcore right now. i have no skin in the game in manu vs. tony but it seems like tp is under the microscope moreso that manu. as you mention, TP is doing what Pop tells him too a la a quarterback getting his plays from the sideline but calling an audible every now and then.I'm not sure what Church I belong to. Some think I am anti-Manu, but I'm on record as saying Manu > Gervin in a must-win game. Some say I'm a Tony homer, then again I've call him out for disappearing and called him out for letting the Eva circus distract him from basketball. So I'm pretty sure I'm right down the middle between party lines.
That said, no question Manu is the Golden Boy of the team. He plays his 25 minutes and no matter what he does, Spurs fans love him. Last night he was 0-for-7 when it counted and defensively, he turned Larry Hughes into LeBron James. I don't know the last time I saw the Cavs win and it wasn't LeBron doing the damage.
Even with all that, the Golden Boy got almost no blame. Duncan and even Oberto got blamed much more ... and those guys actually produced a little bit. If Manu wasn't missing shots or playing bad defense, he was turning the ball over. It doesn't matter though because Manu is the most loved player in franchise history.
Tony, on the other hand, gets blasted regularly and rarely gets praised. Pop can tell him to shoot the ball 20 times and Tony can go out and follow orders ... and then Spurs fans will complain that he wasn't passing enough. If Tony would have been the one 0-7 while turning Eric Snow into LeBron, there'd be a 22 page thread calling for a Parker for Speedy trade. I don't want to even think what would have happened if it was Tony who fouled Dirk last year instead of Manu . . .
I think it mostly comes down to the positions they play. Tony plays the hardest position in the game and the easiest to criticize. Manu plays half the game and it's a lot harder for him to mess up. If he's scoring, the masses think he's doing his job. Tony has to score, set up his teammates, follow Pop's orders, manage the game ... all while being by far the youngest member of the core. And on top of it all, he's a y French kid ... and nobody likes the French
All in all, they are both very good players. It's impossible for me to say which one is more important to the team, because they are virtually the same in terms of value. If either one goes down, there is no championship. But I gave up a long time ago in hoping Spurs fan would be fair to them. Manu is the most loved person in San Antonio who can do no wrong. Tony is the point guard who doesn't pass it to Manu enough.
And it won't change.
I'm not sure what Church I belong to. Some think I am anti-Manu, but I'm on record as saying Manu > Gervin in a must-win game. Some say I'm a Tony homer, then again I've call him out for disappearing and called him out for letting the Eva circus distract him from basketball. So I'm pretty sure I'm right down the middle between party lines.
That said, no question Manu is the Golden Boy of the team. He plays his 25 minutes and no matter what he does, Spurs fans love him. Last night he was 0-for-7 when it counted and defensively, he turned Larry Hughes into LeBron James. I don't know the last time I saw the Cavs win and it wasn't LeBron doing the damage.
Even with all that, the Golden Boy got almost no blame. Duncan and even Oberto got blamed much more ... and those guys actually produced a little bit. If Manu wasn't missing shots or playing bad defense, he was turning the ball over. It doesn't matter though because Manu is the most loved player in franchise history.
Tony, on the other hand, gets blasted regularly and rarely gets praised. Pop can tell him to shoot the ball 20 times and Tony can go out and follow orders ... and then Spurs fans will complain that he wasn't passing enough. If Tony would have been the one 0-7 while turning Eric Snow into LeBron, there'd be a 22 page thread calling for a Parker for Speedy trade. I don't want to even think what would have happened if it was Tony who fouled Dirk last year instead of Manu . . .
I think it mostly comes down to the positions they play. Tony plays the hardest position in the game and the easiest to criticize. Manu plays half the game and it's a lot harder for him to mess up. If he's scoring, the masses think he's doing his job. Tony has to score, set up his teammates, follow Pop's orders, manage the game ... all while being by far the youngest member of the core. And on top of it all, he's a y French kid ... and nobody likes the French
All in all, they are both very good players. It's impossible for me to say which one is more important to the team, because they are virtually the same in terms of value. If either one goes down, there is no championship. But I gave up a long time ago in hoping Spurs fan would be fair to them. Manu is the most loved person in San Antonio who can do no wrong. Tony is the point guard who doesn't pass it to Manu enough.
And it won't change.
This post should be framed and hung on many posters' walls.
By the way, Manu sucked really bad last night.
I agree timvp. I will say that a Suns fan's stupid assertion that TP was being selfish or making the wrong decision in driving to the basket in the last minute last night, ignited some of this recent mess.
Parker is invaluable to this team. Yes, he fades late in games but there have been so many instances where Parker has saved the day. Let's face it. Without TP, there is no up-tempo.
Which makes him french.
I can remember one playoff game in 2005, where Ginobili was good, as was Duncan, but the reason they won was Tony Parker.
Games 3 and 4 IN Denver.
C'mon timvp, you're a smart guy so you should be able to figure this one out. As horrific as Manu can be in games (last night was a prime example) he usually turns things around in the crunch - and that's what people remember.I'm not sure what Church I belong to. Some think I am anti-Manu, but I'm on record as saying Manu > Gervin in a must-win game. Some say I'm a Tony homer, then again I've call him out for disappearing and called him out for letting the Eva circus distract him from basketball. So I'm pretty sure I'm right down the middle between party lines.
That said, no question Manu is the Golden Boy of the team. He plays his 25 minutes and no matter what he does, Spurs fans love him. Last night he was 0-for-7 when it counted and defensively, he turned Larry Hughes into LeBron James. I don't know the last time I saw the Cavs win and it wasn't LeBron doing the damage.
Even with all that, the Golden Boy got almost no blame. Duncan and even Oberto got blamed much more ... and those guys actually produced a little bit. If Manu wasn't missing shots or playing bad defense, he was turning the ball over. It doesn't matter though because Manu is the most loved player in franchise history.
Tony, on the other hand, gets blasted regularly and rarely gets praised. Pop can tell him to shoot the ball 20 times and Tony can go out and follow orders ... and then Spurs fans will complain that he wasn't passing enough. If Tony would have been the one 0-7 while turning Eric Snow into LeBron, there'd be a 22 page thread calling for a Parker for Speedy trade. I don't want to even think what would have happened if it was Tony who fouled Dirk last year instead of Manu . . .
I think it mostly comes down to the positions they play. Tony plays the hardest position in the game and the easiest to criticize. Manu plays half the game and it's a lot harder for him to mess up. If he's scoring, the masses think he's doing his job. Tony has to score, set up his teammates, follow Pop's orders, manage the game ... all while being by far the youngest member of the core. And on top of it all, he's a y French kid ... and nobody likes the French
All in all, they are both very good players. It's impossible for me to say which one is more important to the team, because they are virtually the same in terms of value. If either one goes down, there is no championship. But I gave up a long time ago in hoping Spurs fan would be fair to them. Manu is the most loved person in San Antonio who can do no wrong. Tony is the point guard who doesn't pass it to Manu enough.
And it won't change.
Let's face it, Manu has generated more highlight reel crunch time plays than anyone on this team virtually since he's been in the league. Do you think anyone remembers that Horry scored 0 points in the first 3 quarters of game 5 against Detroit in 2005? No. They only remember how he scored 17 points after that and singlehandedly won that game for us.
There's a reason Pop has Manu run the offense most times in the 4th quarter of close games and big playoff games - he thrives in those situations. Tony just doesn't. Manu is our closer. You know it, I know it, and you can bet your bottom dollar Pop knows it. He can shoot 1-8 in the first 3 quarters and then close out the game for us in the 4th with an incredible display and all is forgotten and forgiven. All's well that ends well you know.
Meanwhile, Tony often will score 18 pts in a half on 80% shooting and then disappear completely in the second half while committing costly turnovers when it really matters. What do you think people will remember? I don't think it's fair, it's just fact.
Oh yeah, and Manu speaks spanish while playing for a team in San Antonio. Think the fans relate to him? Go figure.
tony parker is the best player in the nba.
Manu Ginobili Is The Greatest Basketball Player Ever To Hit The Hardwood. He Deserves All The Praise He Gets, Gotdamnit! Super-manu Is The Reason God Made California Damnit!!!
sa hates tony because he is french and can not speak spanish
tp should demand to be traded
I don't think SA hates Tony. Just a lot of people in this forum.
Alot of those people show their ignorance and stupidity time after time.
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