Josh childress

[picnroll]

Suns were sitting on a bunch of fat contracts, current and upcoming, and were not about to drop a load on Joe Johnson. Colangelo bluffed and picked the Hawks' pockets. When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.

[exstatic]

They weren't going to let JJ walk for nothing. Worst case is they re-sign him, and either deal Marion (they were shopping him that summer) or deal JJ in December. I'd say it was a pretty safe bluff, and it worked.

When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.

When either of those players develops into a 25/4/4/ player, and ATL has had 4-6 GREAT years of JJ in the mean time, get back to me. Diaw is the only coup or value add in that trade, and almost no one saw that coming. Short of Oden, there is no one that is going to be BETTER than Joe Johnson, and PHO would have to wait for them to develop. They have that luxury. ATL didn't, and they needed help immediately.

[mountainballer]

Suns were sitting on a bunch of fat contracts, current and upcoming, and were not about to drop a load on Joe Johnson. Colangelo bluffed and picked the Hawks' pockets. When Kevin Durant or Noah is in a Suns uni next year instead of a Hawks' get back to me.

no way Kevin Durant slips to no.4 in the draft. he will be no.2 when Oden declares and no.1 when Oden decides to stay in College.

[TDMVPDPOY]

JJ is overrated, look at how many times ginoboli has schooled him....

[picnroll]

Joe Johnson, coming off a year where he goes for 17 ppg in 40 mpg shooting .461 gets a max offer. Payroll in 2006-7 is now. Johnson $12, Marion $15, Stoudemire $12, Nash $10, Thomas $ 7. That's what, $56 million plus add a Barbosa's deal and a few scrubs salaries, start with Bell if you wanted him. I guess you could look for a buyer for Marion and subtract his 19 ppg on .515 shooting and 10 rebounds. God knows the Suns don't need the rebounding.

When Duran is better than Johnson? Kevin Durant will very likely be better than J Johnson. J Johnson is a good player but will NEVER be a franchise player. He's a Manu-type at best and Manu would nver whiff a le without a superstar or uva supporting cast alongside him. Neither will Johnson. Durant has a reasonably good shot to be that superstar.

[exstatic]

RIF. I've already said that one of Johnson/Marion would have been moved. They probably wouldn't have acquired Kurt Thomas, either, if they were payroll crunched.

[mountainballer]

sorry guys, maybe I get you wrong, but way are you discussing this either Johnson or Durant or whoever?

the pick 2007 is top 3 protected. Durant will be a top 3 pick, no way he could ever slip out of this group.
so Durant will for sure NOT be a Sun, the chance that he ends up with the Hawks is there.

and I agree that Durant can not be compared to JJ.
Durant would have been the no.1 pick in any of the drafts since 2003 and he will be no.1 2007, if Oden stays in College.
sure there isn't a guarrantee that he will be a superstar, but since Lebron no other player has shown that much potential at this age.
JJ was a good but not outstanding college player and he developed into a good NBA player, but isn't and will never be a superstar like Durant could become.

[picnroll]

You are right. Suns won't get their hands on Durant short of himn staying at Texas and Hawks totally sucking in "08. Thank God for that. Nevertheless Hawks got taken to the woodshed on that deal. To get JJ on a max deal is questionable. To give up a load in exchange on top of that is totally dumbass.

[mountainballer]

Nevertheless Hawks got taken to the woodshed on that deal. To get JJ on a max deal is questionable. To give up a load in exchange on top of that is totally dumbass.

JJ is somehow overpayed, but this doesn't have anything to do with the trade it self.
I agree, that the Suns likely got the much better part, especially because they added 2 future first rounders.
but the end of the story will be told 2008 or later.
imagine the following scenario: Hawks win one of the first 3 picks 2007. they pick Oden, Durant or Noah (I guess they would pick him, if he is there).
the picked player is the big hit, he helps the Hawks to improve significantly (along with the improving young core). Hawks finish with 35 wins and the 2008 pick the Suns get is a no 10-15 pick. (in a likely not so good draft) the Hawks get 2008 a big name FA (they have tons of cap-space and might have an upcomming superstar to attract FAs). the next season they are back in the PO, so the second pick the suns get isn't that high.
what I want to say, there is still a chance than at the end of the day the trade doesn't look as bad as it looked 2006, when Diaw turned into the MIP.

[picnroll]

So the argument is that they might not have done so bad afterall because they were able to sign a guy for a max contract and still suck bad enough two years later as to not get burned by giving away draft picks, having qualified for a top two or three pick in the draft. Damn I wish the Spurs' FO was that skilled.

Maybe if Hawks FO was competent enough to draft Paul they wouldn't be this lucky. They've sucked from the JJ deal to present. Given the first pick next year they might draft Larry, Curly or Moe.

[mountainballer]

So the argument is that they might not have done so bad afterall because they were able to sign a guy for a max contract and still suck bad enough two years later as to not get burned by giving away draft picks, having qualified for a top two or three pick in the draft. Damn I wish the Spurs' FO was that skilled.

no. the trade was a very bad job by the FO. I just wanted to display a scenario, how they could get away with it.

(but I wouldn't want to revaluate all the moves of Spurs FO since 2002. they wouldn't look very well in such a ranking. they still live from the brilliant work after the TD draft, from 1997 to 2002. after this, or in other words, since RC is GM, they are just NBA average, or even below, IMO)

[picnroll]

(but I wouldn't want to revaluate all the moves of Spurs FO since 2002. they wouldn't look very well in such a ranking. they still live from the brilliant work after the TD draft, from 1997 to 2002. after this, or in other words, since RC is GM, they are just NBA average, or even below, IMO)

True. In my opinion since the SL showing of Mahinmi the Spurs' FO is now solidly in the category of disappointing and living on the fading memories of drafting Parker and Ginobili. Many FOs have past them by in recent years. Their plummet in the brains rankings began with the Kidd fiasco, passing up talent like Arenas and Howard.

[mountainballer]

Many FOs have past them by in recent years. Their plummet in the brains rankings began with the Kidd fiasco, passing up talent like Arenas and Howard.

I was thinking of starting a thread about such a question.

In my opinon this series of bad decisions began in 2002, with a move most no longer remember, or even talk about.
the trade of the rights to Gordan Giricek for just a 2nd round pick 2004 to the Grizzlies.
it was a brilliant move in 1999, when the Spurs aquired the rights for Giricek + a 2nd round pick for Leon Smith and a stupid move to almost give away the rights again.(beside the fact that the Spurs blew the pick on Romain Sato anyhow)
to me this is somehow symbolic for the difference in the quality of moves of the 1997-2002 period and 2002-today.

I don't want to talk about the player Giricek became in the NBA, I want to talk about his value 2002.
2001-2002 Giricek had his breakout season in the Euroleague, he was the leagues topscorer. his quality status was compareable to the one of Manu.
so he had increased his value for a lot since the draft 1999.
it is understandable, that the Spurs didn't want to bring in Manu and Giricek in the same year (beside, Gordan was traded away, before Manu had signed), but they handled this absolutly stupid.
Giricek signed a LLE 2 year contract with Grizzlies, so money wasn't the issue (like in case of Scola)
Spurs should have traded him for much more, or sign him and trade him during the season.

again, this move didn't hurt the Spurs chances overall, I tell all this just because IMO it was the start of many very bad moves.
(moves that might cost 2 more possible rings of the Duncan era)

[exstatic]

2001-2002 Giricek had his breakout season in the Euroleague, he was the leagues topscorer. his quality status was compareable to the one of Manu.

They were lucky to get a second round pick for him. Euros had almost NO value in the league at that point. Tony had just finished his rookie year, Dirk was a soft jumpshooter, and Manu had yet to make his presence known in the NBA.

[mountainballer]

They were lucky to get a second round pick for him. Euros had almost NO value in the league at that point. Tony had just finished his rookie year, Dirk was a soft jumpshooter, and Manu had yet to make his presence known in the NBA.

sorry, but what you say is totally wrong.
just do some research.
2002 the value of Euros was probably on a all-time high!!

Skita was picked at no.5
Nachbar at no. 15
Welch at no. 16

noone of them had the status in Europe Giricek had at this time! not even close. and it also wasn't about age and upside. Welch and Nachbar were already 22 when they were drafted. (only Skita was really young at 19, so that scouts could think he had that much upside left)

may I just remind you that Spurs had Krstic as their target, but he was "stolen" by the Nets two picks before. Spurs could have traded up by adding the rights of Giricek to their pick and get Krstic. just as a possibility.

[picnroll]

Undoubtedly Giricek was shopped and that was probably the best offer the Spurs could get.

[exstatic]

Undoubtedly Giricek was shopped and that was probably the best offer the Spurs could get.

That's what I'm sayin'. He was also basically forcing a trade by threatening to sign a long term deal in Europe if he wasn't on an NBA roster that year.

I can't believe that people are still carping about Giricek and ing about second round picks that don't pan out. Folks, 50% of first round picks aren't in the league after their rookie contracts.