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Hey dude this is scary..I actually brought up the sameQB analogy when complaining about TP...
pg needs are different for each team/personnel. tony is the pg but plenty of other players handle the ball a lot. the spurs don't need a kidd/nash type pg.
Hey dude this is scary..I actually brought up the sameQB analogy when complaining about TP...
Since all I hear about is how much Tony Parker sucks. How about this trade?
Farmar, Cook, Mihm, Mckie, and 2007 first for Parker.
Trade him to the Lakers.
A 24yr old speedster who can slice through the lane at will and finishes better than almost anyone in this league. A guy who has improved pieces of his game each year. A guy who is aggressive and confident, yet doesn't mind getting his ass chewed. People on this forum don't give Parker enough credit, so maybe I overcompensate...but I am optomistic about what this kid brings to the table already and could potentially bring to the Spurs in the future.
There IS alot to like, don't know why you refuse to see it.
So what happens when teams collapse in the lane. Then what? I think we are all waiting for the what.
Not really. Parker is a shoot-first point guard. That should be obvious. Only two other players on this entire team can score on their own: Duncan and Ginobili. The rest, even if they can score on their own, cannot score in volume. Not at all. Ginobili is injury prone and so is held back a little by design, but will get his. Duncan will get his, but those are not enough. By design Parker is unleashed and told to go to the rack whenever he can.
I never said Parker has the point guard talent of making other players around him better. In fact, I manifestly maintain he DOES NOT have this talent. It doesn't make him a bad player, necessarily, because he does other things well.
I know I will be criticized but Parker is in the class of all the other shooting point guards. Francis, Marbury, Iverson, etc. They don't make the team better around them. They just can score and are very difficult to stop. They don't play defense as well. Iverson at least anticipates and gets many steals. Give me a passing point guard any day. Magic Johnson, Stockton, Nash, Kidd etc.
yes but Tony is SO ONE DIMENSIONAL that effectively we have no point guard period. Again even then, i wouldn't mind it if tony would not dissappear in the 4th so often. No top player dissappears as fast as Tony does....and not only does he dissappear but he makes lot of errors and his defence becomes atrocious in the latter stages of the games because he wastes so much energy trying to "carry" the team in the first 3 qtrs.
He just needs to play smarter, under control, and be more consistent from quarter to quarter, game to game, and not have huge chunks of quarters or even games where he basically is either a non-factor (i.e Chicago game) or even a liability (Dallas series last year or last night's 4th quarter).
He has all the tools, athleticism and talent physically......now he just has to work on his jumpers (still unreliable), basketball IQ and focus/toughness in the clutch time because they all suck right now.
Yeah don't know if you watch many games, but he hits the 18-20ft shot with regularity now. Games like Chicago are the exception rather than the rule. He works hard with Chip Engelland to get better. He could work over this summer to push that 20 footer out another few feet and then he'd have a reliable three-point shot.
Again, he's 24 and improving...what makes you think he can't work on his shot?
That's a great talent and Tony's a talented guy, but you can't build around a guy like that. We're not talking Gilbert Arenas here. Tony Parker is not a nexus around which other players can design their games. In fact, the way he plays usually stagnates offenses, although that can change according to personnel. He is resolutely a second tier player and will always be a second tier player. It'd be like building a team around Sean Elliott. Why on earth? And how?
I won't argue your point but how exactly will we be able to build around him?
I like last year's Tony better, his shot was unreliable but his penetrating skills were whack
The first option on offense is Tim Duncan, and it's been that way for years. That means everything funnels through him and he takes it to the rim or draws a double-team and distributes.
Tony can drive to the rim and I've seen him get better with passing to the low-post while driving and drawing defenders...but admittedly he's not great at it right now. That doesn't mean he never will be.
Join the club, buddy.
I'm not going to relive the cruel injustices of SR on me...but needless to say you're not alone here. There's no loveloss for SR here.
Since when is "a player that can be built around" the standard for a Spurs point guard on the same team with Tim Duncan? How many point guards in the league qualify for that label? And what are they being paid right now?
What i found funny was the reason for banning me! I mean, I never swore, never showed disrespect or never got into fights with anyone. Just because I stated an opinion and posted too many times (according to Dizz G, the administrator), they decide to ban me. Pretty juvenile behaviour.
Short explanation - take it for what it's worth:
Tony "wasting" his energy trying to carry the team for the first 3 quarters has always been by design. Tony was told to score and early and then late defer to Tim/Manu. This year, they are actually changing that and trying to have Tony be involved in scoring late too. And some games he does fine. Other games, like last night, he makes mistakes. For the last few years he hasn't been part of the scoring in 4th quarters because that was left for Manu and Tim.
But realize, that most of what Tony does is by design. Yes, he still gets tunnel vision at times. Last night on the 2-on-1 break, he was going to pass to Manu, but he was too late.
He's never going to be a guy who regularly gets 15/10. The Spurs don't use him that way. He's a scoring point guard who they want to score even more.
Take the fact that last year in the playoffs when he was shooting 17 times a game, Pop wanted him to shoot 25 times a game.
Your criticism of Tony's play (though his mistakes are not as frequent as some in this thread suggest) is not off base. But take into account that most of what he does is because of how the Spurs have chosen to use him in the past.
a bunch of trash for paker? no thanksSince all I hear about is how much Tony Parker sucks. How about this trade?
Farmar, Cook, Mihm, Mckie, and 2007 first for Parker.
Trade him to the Lakers.
that is a good point though. telecomguy, understand there really aren't any better PGs out there for us. PG is the hardest position to fill, look what the Lakers have for a PG. a ing dude called Smush who is no better than the worse PG in the league.
So I would not blame the whole thing on Parker. we won 2 rings with a lesser Parker in the past.
We need to worry about the bigger things: taking care of the ball, rebounding, playing the full 48 minutes and somehow getting a decent bench.
that asshole Pop needs to take the team back to the basics. WTF are they doing in practice???? that's what I wanna know.
You won't get banned here, but if you want your opinion to carry any weight, just don't be the guy that posts a Parker bashing thread after every game. Pick your timing.
Your timing here was good. If you had posted this after a game where, say, Parker scored 14 4th quarter points but the Spurs gave up 38 points in the same quarter, and you blamed the loss on Parker? That's bad timing.
I have a hard time believing this. Why play so predictably? Should the Spurs not play a balanced game where they take what the defence gives them? Why have such a simplistic game plan where Parker tries to go solo and do end-to-end penetrate-layups for the first 3 qtrs and then dissappear for the 4th quarter for Duncan and Manu to do THEIR solo act? I cannot believe that Pop would ever tell Tony that this is the game plan. Why not have Parker play an intelligent game the ENTIRE game and use a balanced attack throughout the game so that the offence doesn't go out of sync or grind down to watching parker skitter around or post Duncan every single time in the 4th qtr because tony has dissappeared (or by design???). Nash or other smart PG's will take what the defence gives him. He will score if they deny the outlet pass and pass when they go after him aggressively and it doesn't matter if the game is in the 1st qtr or the last qtr. Nash and other top PG play exactly the same way the entire game.....the smart way where they exploit the personnnel, strategy and what the defence gives them. This is how you play basketball.
Farmar is a good young rookie PG, Cook is the shooter you guys desperately need, Mihm and Mckie are expiring contracts, and the first rounder is what it is. Not a bad trade for the Spurs at all. But a great trade for the Lakeshow.
All the players and you brought up Gilbert Arenas? His typical one-on-one play stagnates the offense just as much, if not more than Tony.
And again, the fact that you can definitively say he will "always be a second tier player" boggles my mind. I'm not guaranteeing that he will be a top 5 player in this league, but I think the chances are better that he becomes top 5 than the chances that he stays exactly where he is.
The only difference (and it's a huge one!) is that on the Laker team, guess WHO handles the ball all the time in the offensive zone. NOT SMUSH but a dude named Kobe. On the Spurs team, PARKER handles the ball most of the time. And what is interesting is that now that Kobe has learned to not ball-hog so much and go solo (and by the way, he is way way more bettter at going solo than Parker because he can hurt you 10 different ways whereas Parker is limited to penetrate - layups due to his horrendous jump shooting inability), Kobe has become far more dangerous because he has made all his teammates so much better.
If KOBE (the ultimate superstar who can go solo) realizes that he has to be more of a PG, than shouldn't Parker not realize even more so considering that Parker is not even 50% of a pure scorer that Kobe is????
I don't know if "go solo" is the right terminology, but the gameplan in recent years has always been for him to do the majority of his scoring early and then defer to Manu/Tim late. Then, as he developed a better jumpshot, Pop decided that Tony can be another good scoring option late.
telecom -- I don't think you're grasping that Parker is not Steve Nash and cannot do the things he can. What exactly are you talking about, "a balanced game"? Parker isn't capable of much more than what he's doing. Plus, what he's doing is basically the only way the Spurs can run things right now, because they need the points badly.
If your beef is that Parker is not a pass-first point guard in the Kidd/Nash/Stockton mold, then fine. We get it. We know he's not that player. Like many others have told you, he's a shoot-first point guard. He's Francis/Marbury/Kevin Johnson. He has a limited capacity to be a playmaker outside the drive-and-kick mold.
Your other beef seems to be that Parker scores too much and shoots too much. What people are trying to tell you is that the offense is geared this way. If he did not take these shots, we would not be compe ive offensively. We only have two other scorers, and those two are limited. Kori is correct: his ball domination is by design.
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