Parker is so non-clutch

[telecomguy]

I got kicked out of the Spursreport forum because early last season, I criticized Parker too much in the administrator's opinion. Basically what I said was that Parker has a very poor court vision & is too one-dimensional (penetrate & layup) to be considered anywhere near the top point-guard in the league. I also stated that I feared Spurs would not go far in the playoffs with Parker directing the offence (I duly noted that Popovich had given Parker much more responsibility for offence as well as green light to shoot more) and his lack of defence. Sure enough, Dallas knocked Spurs off despite heroic effort from Duncan and as USUAL, Parker dissappeared in the key moments in that series.

Watching last night's game reminded me why I get so frustrated watching Parker. The kid has all the natural talent but his basketball IQ or court vision must be very very low. And his inability to play tough in pressure situation is so consistent that I am inclined to believe that he cannot handle pressure in the latter stages of games. If you watch Parker, he always comes out very strong in games or in series only to basically dissappear in the crunch minutes or key games once the opposing defence starts to collapse their defence and prevent him from penetrating. Unlike Nash who can punish you if you back off him, Parker's jump shot is still so unreliable that as soon as the crunch time comes, you can see parker is so reluctant to take the important shots -- always deferring to Manu or Duncan. So effectively, our offence becomes very one-dimensional in key moments because Parker and Bowen dissappears and the only options are Manu and Duncan.

I know many posters love Parker because he is so quick and he can penetrate/finish. Unfortunately, this is not enough for a PG. And also his defence is a quite a big liability. Lastly how come makes so many turnovers in key moments but his steal numbers are so low??? I do not have scientific proof or data to support this but I watch almost all Spurs games and the general impression I have of parker is that he committs way too many mental errors and basically tends to "dissappear" in key moments when the games are close and are hanging in the balance.

I said last year that I can easily name 10 PG that are probably more clutch, and better than Parker.....(i included Hinrich in that list) and everyone at Spursreport laughed at me.

I am not trying to bash parker but it is so surprising how ineffective he becomes in clutch time and how many errors he makes and how little he contributes to the team. Parker playing one-on-five is simply not going to work in playoffs or in crunch time. Especially against an atheletic team like Dallas or even Phoenix. To me, Hinrich, Paul, Nash, Billups, Kidd, Andre Miller, etc etc. or any one of 10 other PG would be a far better fit than Parker. Parker will score...in the early going and then dissappear when the crunch time comes. PG is one of the most important position, and I can't imagine Spurs winning it all this year relying only on Duncan and Manu in key points in the games.

[nkdlunch]

Eventhough Parker was far from being the main culprit of last night. He ing got owned by Smush at the end.

All night long Smush was being Parker's , and Tony kept going at him. I was like, damn Tony is making Smush look like a chump!

But come in the late 3rd, and all 4th quarter Tony just blew it!!! he kept trying to penetrate and would lose the ball cause he refused to pass. ing Tony needs to understand that Smush was ticked off and would not let him penetrate, but still Tony looked confused and would dribble the ball and pass to noone and cause turnovers.

At 4th quarter Smush owned Tony. what an embarrasment.

I would not say Tony is not clutch. But he tends to be one dimensional especially towards the end of games. we basically played w/out a PG for half the 3rd quarter and all the 4th.

[Russ]

In clutch time, teams tend to pack in their D to stop pentration and force outside shots. That hurts TP. In addition, by clutch time he is tired because of the way he plays. As a result, he is less a factor in clutch time than we would like. Overall, however, his play is a big plus and, as he gains experience, he will probably get better at adjusting to the packed in D.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Watching last night's game reminded me why I get so frustrated watching Parker. The kid has all the natural talent but his basketball IQ or court vision must be very very low. And his inability to play tough in pressure situation is so consistent that I am inclined to believe that he cannot handle pressure in the latter stages of games. If you watch Parker, he always comes out very strong in games or in series only to basically dissappear in the crunch minutes or key games once the opposing defence starts to collapse their defence and prevent him from penetrating. Unlike Nash who can punish you if you back off him, Parker's jump shot is still so unreliable that as soon as the crunch time comes, you can see parker is so reluctant to take the important shots -- always deferring to Manu or Duncan. So effectively, our offence becomes very one-dimensional in key moments because Parker and Bowen dissappears and the only options are Manu and Duncan.

I know many posters love Parker because he is so quick and he can penetrate/finish. Unfortunately, this is not enough for a PG. And also his defence is a quite a big liability. Lastly how come makes so many turnovers in key moments but his steal numbers are so low??? I do not have scientific proof or data to support this but I watch almost all Spurs games and the general impression I have of parker is that he committs way too many mental errors and basically tends to "dissappear" in key moments when the games are close and are hanging in the balance.

I said last year that I can easily name 10 PG that are probably more clutch, and better than Parker.....(i included Hinrich in that list) and everyone at Spursreport laughed at me.

I am not trying to bash parker but it is so surprising how ineffective he becomes in clutch time and how many errors he makes and how little he contributes to the team. Parker playing one-on-five is simply not going to work in playoffs or in crunch time. Especially against an atheletic team like Dallas or even Phoenix. To me, Hinrich, Paul, Nash, Billups, Kidd, Andre Miller, etc etc. or any one of 10 other PG would be a far better fit than Parker. Parker will score...in the early going and then dissappear when the crunch time comes. PG is one of the most important position, and I can't imagine Spurs winning it all this year relying only on Duncan and Manu in key points in the games.





There are many of us here who are not enamored with TP including myself. Beware though there are many folks on this board who will defend the guy until the bitter end. I agree with your take.

[Solid D]

Welcome aboard, telecomguy.

I don't think your observations and feelings are off base at all, although TP has come up clutch in a few games. I thought Tony played very well but he does wear down. That's why his stats are nearly always front-loaded (first 24 minutes). He's a scorer and not a true point guard but he's making small strides in developing into a playmaker.

He seems to have a difficult time deciding in transition on what he is going to do until he loses his angles. If the guy leading the break doesn't give the ball up by the time he reaches the FT line, the angles disappear and the guy will probably be better off shooting himself. That's what happened in a key 2-on-1 (Tony and Manu on Smush) late in the game, with all the momentum with the Spurs. Passing to Manu running the rt. wing was the right choice but TP decided too late and Smush blew the play up. That was BIG for the Lakers to stop their bleeding.

The Spurs absolutely need a backup to spot Tony for 12 minutes a game and Beno has really missed a great opportunity to fill that glaring need. His shot is the worst it's looked since Beno's been a Spur. His defense is soft on opposing PGs. Brent Barry can't backup the 1 consistently.


Maybe Tony will continue to improve his decision-making. We can only hope. If he doesn't, the Spurs will need to get them an additional playmaker to augment Manu.

[telecomguy]

so WHY does Parker waste all his energy going end-to-end to get all his points in the frist 2 or 3 quarters and then have NOTHING left for the key 4th quarter? This happens time and time again in close games where he tends to either dissappear completely or makes lot of errors in key moments. A supposed top PG like Tony playng on one of the elite teams CANNOT continue to choke and dissappear in the 4th quarter. This is exactly why Tony needs to play more of a point guard game througout the entire game so that he conserve his energy when the team needs him the most i.e. 4th quarter.

Ask yourself this question. How many does has Tony penetrated against 2, 3, sometimes 4 defenders and then at the last second, dish off to Duncan or another Spur for an easy layup? Nash and Kidd does this ALL THE TIME. This saves them from wear & tear but more importantly, guys like Amare shoots 65% because he ends up getting eash dunks and layups all the time due to Nash's PG play.

Also Tony's defense has to improve. He rarely makes important steals or rarely puts enough pressure on his man. Think of Jason Terry in the playoffs last year. He owned Tony and was one of the main reason why Spurs lost the series. I can't remember how many times Tony would get lost in a P 'n Roll with Jason getting easy baskets off Tony who would either lose Terry or get so far underneath the screen (he doesn't ever fight through screens) that Terry would get uncontested jump shots after jump shots or end up getting isolated with Duncan or Oberto who cannot keep up with his quickness. Tony again needs to SAVE his energy so he can spend some of that in DEFENCE and scoring in the FOURTH QUARTER when we desperately need him when Duncan gets double or triple teamed or they close off Manu's lanes. To me Parker's points are misleading because he gets most of them in the first half or first 3 quarters. The game is won in the 4th quarter. That is the time to step up....until then, use all the players to play the entire game so you don't dissappear in the 4th quarter.

[smeagol]

It's all Tony's fault

[cheguevara]

It's all Tony's fault

great insight.

if you actually watched the games, you would see that many valid points here. this is a discussion forum isn't it?

[Solid D]

Tony, Manu and Tim need to be the guys who carry the team. Tony does...he really does... but he needs to rest too. The backup must not drop the baton.

[telecomguy]

He seems to have a difficult time deciding in transition on what he is going to do until he loses his angles. If the guy leading the break doesn't give the ball up by the time he reaches the FT line, the angles disappear and the guy will probably be better off shooting himself. That's what happened in a key 2-on-1 (Tony and Manu on Smush) late in the game, with all the momentum with the Spurs. Passing to Manu running the rt. wing was the right choice but TP decided too late and Smush blew the play up. That was BIG for the Lakers to stop their bleeding.

The Spurs absolutely need a backup to spot Tony for 12 minutes a game and Beno has really missed a great opportunity to fill that glaring need. His shot is the worst it's looked since Beno's been a Spur. His defense is soft on opposing PGs. Brent Barry can't backup the 1 consistently.


Maybe Tony will continue to improve his decision-making. We can only hope. If he doesn't, the Spurs will need to get them an additional playmaker to augment Manu.[/QUOTE]


I hope so. I really love the Spurs have been following them for years and it pains me to see them become so one-dimensional. One of the problem that Tony has is that he doesn't KNOW when to slow down and attack the paint in a CONTROLLED manner. Sometimes he needs to realize that the angles aren't there as you suggested or that he is likely going to run into shot blockers and at that point, make the smart decision to backtrack or dish it off rather than trying to FORCE a play. Lot of his turnovers are not even forced turnovers but ones he creates himself. He has to learn to play more under control and not be -bent to get to the rim EVERY SINGLE time. He wants to be an all-star and a superstar but that is not how you win the ring. This is a team guy the last time I checked and until Tony learns to use his other players more effectively, Spurs are going to have a tough time scoring in the crunch with just Duncan & Manu.

Let me put it this way. I would rather have Tony score 5 points a game less if that means he has few more assists and more importantly, have enough gas left to score lot of his points in the 4th Quarter when the games are quite often decided.

[Rick Von Braun]

He seems to have a difficult time deciding in transition on what he is going to do until he loses his angles. If the guy leading the break doesn't give the ball up by the time he reaches the FT line, the angles disappear and the guy will probably be better off shooting himself. That's what happened in a key 2-on-1 (Tony and Manu on Smush) late in the game, with all the momentum with the Spurs. Passing to Manu running the rt. wing was the right choice but TP decided too late and Smush blew the play up. That was BIG for the Lakers to stop their bleeding.

Bingo!

That was the beginning of the end last night.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It's all Tony's fault

In other words you don't watch any Spurs games

[Mr. Body]

I got kicked out of the Spursreport forum because early last season, I criticized Parker too much in the administrator's opinion. Basically what I said was that Parker has a very poor court vision & is too one-dimensional (penetrate & layup) to be considered anywhere near the top point-guard in the league.

There are a number around here who think we'll build around hiim after Duncan is gone, like he's some kind of franchise guy, when he's absolutely not.

[AFBlue]

When no one else steps up, Tony sometimes does force the action. But I think his aggressiveness and willingness to have the ball in his hands can be a positive trait. He does need to defer more, but give this kid some credit...and TIME. He's only 24 and has improved his game every year in this league.

Side note: It pissed me off yesterday when Hubie said he'd never average over 6 assists a game. I call bull on that. As Tim's game declines, the ball will be in Tony's hands more often and he can choose to shoot or pass more often. As time goes on, either his scoring goes up or his assists do...or both.

[Mr. Body]

As Tim's game declines, the ball will be in Tony's hands more often and he can choose to shoot or pass more often. As time goes on, either his scoring goes up or his assists do...or both.

Or his turnovers.

[AFBlue]

There are a number around here who think we'll build around hiim after Duncan is gone, like he's some kind of franchise guy, when he's absolutely not.

Yeah...that'd be me. I don't see his "clutchness" as a factor that can't be changed with time.

[AFBlue]

Or his turnovers.

Maybe all three.

[Mr. Body]

I don't think it's a factor of clutchness. There are and have been franchise guys who weren't clutch. I just don't see in any way that Parker is a franchise player. Was Kevin Johnson a franchise player? Absolutely not, and he was leagues better than Parker is. Building a team around Parker is ludicrous. It's practically nonsensical. What are you building around, exactly?

[telecomguy]

There are a number around here who think we'll build around hiim after Duncan is gone, like he's some kind of franchise guy, when he's absolutely not.

Don't get me wrong....I think Tony is an incrediblly talented player (i mean his ability to finish is just amazing) but the problem is that he is not playing a specialist role. He is a POINT GUARD. A point guard cannot just be a one-dimensional player because he handles the ball so much and is effectively the quarterback of the team. It is as if a football team has a quarterback who cannot throw the ball and can only run the ball. Can you imagine having a quarterback who can't pass? What will happen is that once the defence figures out in the 4th quarter that the quarterback cannot pass worth his beans, they will stack the line and clog up the middle to make sure the quarterback doesn't get any sneak runs anymore.....and there goes the game.

Tony has to be more than a penetrator (actually if he could keep this up to end of the game that would be fine but reality is that by 4th quarter he is finished). He has to facilitate and use everyone. Bowen can be one-dimensional and get away with it because he is a specialist but Parker has to make the other players more effective because he has the ball 80% of the time. If all he is doing is using his own players as pylons to get his pts. early in the game and then dissappear in the end, what is the point??

[objective]

Parker hasn't cut his turnovers down over his career. They always pop up most glaringly in the 4th.

[leemajors]

In other words you don't watch any Spurs games

that one just flew over your head.

[Mr. Body]

Well, he has to use his own players as slalom pylons for three quarters because practically no one else on this team can get their own baskets. I don't really fault Parker for getting his - it's what Pop wants him to do and what we need him to do.

[KB24]

Owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[telecomguy]

Well, he has to use his own players as slalom pylons for three quarters because practically no one else on this team can get their own baskets. I don't really fault Parker for getting his - it's what Pop wants him to do and what we need him to do.

EXCUSE ME but isn't that the exact point? If we had a true PG, the other Spurs players would NOT have to create their own shot/basket. For you to say that Tony has to play solo because no one else can score is totally ridiculous. Tony is the PG who should be making the other players more effective so that they DON"T HAVE to try to score on their own. That is exactly what the pg is supposed to do.

[George Gervin's Afro]

My point of view on TP is well do ented on this board and have been told that:

My take will never be taken seriously anymore because of my irrational hating of TP

My lack of basketball knowledge

you get the idea but it boils down to what you expect from your point guard.

TAKE CARE OF THE F*CKING BALL

The end of the 3rd qtr is what drives me nuts about TP.. he was responsible for 2 of the 3 turnovers in the final 2 minutes and they resulted in 6 points.. the game went from 6 point lead and momentum to a 2 point deficit and lakers having momentum..

we finally get the lead at 91-90 and actually have the opportunity to increase the lead with 2 minutes left..TP runs up court misses manu on the wing and turns the ball over.. guess what? you bet the lakers take the game over from there..

TP is not soley responsible for this loss or any others for that matter but his 4th qtr play sucks.. his line looked great last night but how many points did he score in the second half? how many turnovers did he have in the second half? Did they outnumber his points?