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No doubt. Hakeem was dominant on both ends of the floor, loaded up the boxscore across all stats, had finesse and power, and won the big ones like MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY, and championships. Hard to argue with that.
Absolutely. My argument about the 7 foot shooter vs. the 6'5" wasnt meant to be Dirk vs. Ice Man, but just any 7 footer vs. any 6'5" guy.
Ice was a terrrific scorer, not just a shooter. He had a career like Dominique Wilkins IMO. Tremendous individual achievements with lots of flair but never enjoyed the team successes.
I completely agree that Gervin played in a much tougher era with some really great teams. Basketball as a whole was much better back then.
I think Dirk's D has improved to the point where he's not a liability anymore. Not a good defender by any stretch, but he's not the sieve he used to be.
I think your argument about FG% is deceiving though. Gervin didnt shoot nearly as many 3 pointers as Dirk did so you have to use the adjusted FG% stat which considers the increased value of the 3 pointer when you compare them.
But all in all, I think you made good points. It's definitely debatable who's better of the 2, but I tend to think if Dirk can maintain his level of play of the past 2-3 years, he'll end up being just a bit better in terms of legacy.
And I'm not sure Gervin or anyone in his family would say he had a better career than Hakeem (as the one homer poster did here). That's just ludicrous. Although now that I read it, he also said DRob was better than Hakeem.
Yeah, that's the ticket. DRob AND Gervin were better than a top 10-15 player of all time. Never mind no one in their right mind has Rob or Ice as a top 10-15 POAT.
Last edited by bobbyjoe; 04-09-2007 at 03:10 AM.
No doubt. Hakeem was dominant on both ends of the floor, loaded up the boxscore across all stats, had finesse and power, and won the big ones like MVP, Finals MVP, DPOY, and championships. Hard to argue with that.
Player X was better than Player Y because his Team X was better than Team Y.
I get it.
I love when Laker fan throws out the Knicks to try and diminish the 99 le. Tell me, oh wise Laker fan, who did the Lakers play in the 2000, 01, and 02 finals?
EDIT> Hakeem was one of the greatest big men to ever play the game. I watched his complete dominance in 1995 and I have nothing negative to say about him.
Only Reason that Horry ranks TD last is because TD has only won HIM one ring...
he readily ADMITS that...
you said duncan beat grandmama, like he couldn't beat anybody good. it's not duncan's fault that ewings achilles heal was his achilles heal. duncan still waxed the knicks team that beat the hawks, bird's pacers, and riley's heat. spurs also drilled the lakers and blazers that season. still, you belittle their accomplishments.
you said the spurs beat kenyon martin. actually, the spurs beat the two time defending eastern conf champions. that was after dethroning the lakers as three time champions. that was bigger than anything the rockets did, maybe horry just doesn't want to recognize that cause he was a laker then.
you can squawk about who's a hall of famer all you want, but none of them are hall of famers. they all will be hall of famers.
and the rockets beat a 23 year old shaq and lil penny. big freaking deal. again, duncan dethroned the champs. that's something the rockets never did.
you seem to leave lots of stuff out as it relates to the spurs championship seasons. i didn't bother with non-championship seasons. did hakeem win in the finals that year? no. hakeem, 2-1. duncan, 3-0.
amare stoudamire may have scored a lot of points, that's like saying the wilkins and jordan dominated larry bird in the 80's. scoring a lot doesn't mean anything when you lose.
which do you want, team success or individual success? tim's got lots of both. unanimous ROY, all nba, all defensive team, two mvp's, three finals mvp's.
I'm in no way trying to diminish it. That was in response to the comment that Hakeem's Rockets had it easy because MJ was gone.
I found that comment pretty ironic considering who the Spurs played in 99 relative to the Malones, Stockton's, Barkley's, DRob's, Shaq's Hakeem still had to go through even if MJ wasnt around for 94.
I dont think any bigman, Tim included, has ever had the run of going through 3 of the top 10 C's of all time and winning every series and dominating the individual mathcups like Hakeem did from 94-95 against Ewing, DRob, and O'Neal.
I agree that the Lakers faced some pretty weak East opponents in 00-02, save for the Pacers in 00 who I think were still a pretty strong team. The Nets and Sixers were not.
Don't get me wrong, I think the Spurs of 99, 03, 05 were great teams, along with the Lakers of 00-02. They were always the team that gave the Lakers the most trouble in the Kobe/Shaq era and at the end of the day the bottomline regardless of who they played is that they ended up with the banner. I just thought Dave's arguments were pretty strange and illogical.
You're either talking out your ass
or
You never saw the man play
or
Both
Hakeem played for Toronto...so Duncan > Olajuwon
Firts off, I dont know why people keep refering to Gervin as some 6 foot 5 shooting guard, guy was 6-7 nightmare of a matchup. Only MJ and Wilt have more scoring les than him, and he went to 12 straight all star games. I cant believe people on here are trying to downplay how good he was. He averaged more blocks per season than Dirk, more steals, and was always at least 5 board a game player.
"He's the one player I would pay to see," Jerry West told the Los Angeles Times in 1982 after Gervin won his fourth scoring le. Longtime NBA coach Motta told the Sacramento Bee that same year, "You don't stop George Gervin. You just hope that his arm gets tired after 40 shots. I believe the guy can score when he wants to. I wonder if he gets bored out there."
Dirk is a nightmare matchup, but the only way he will ever be considered a better player will be if he wins a le, that is the only way. He might catch up to Georges scoring, but he needs over 11,000 more points, so I doubt that will happen.
As far as the idiotic Jordan argument, yea, it works both ways. Hakeem might have been lucky (although I still think those Rockets teams could have hung with MJs Bulls), and the Spurs got lucky I guess. The only difference was, when Jordan came back after the Rockets won it, he still had a similiar team tha he could compete with. After he retired again, the team was dismantled, so I really dont see the Spurs as getting lucky. And whichever idiot said that the Knocks had a team the year we beat them is a idiot. The team was injured all year, and finally got heathly enough to get into the playoffs, and beat every team that was put in front of them, including the Pacers team that went to the Finals the very next year and a very good Heat team. Ewing, Camby, LJ, Houston, Spree, Kurt Thomas and Charlie Ward, not a bad team at all.
Last edited by mardigan; 04-09-2007 at 02:18 PM.
^ 6'8"
Well that may be, but he is listed as 6-7 on every site I went to
the real question is : which state has welcomed the best players?
i'd go for california
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