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Duncan is more effective and won againts better compe ion than Hakeem
1. Hakeem- 2 les
2. Tim Duncan- 3 les
3. David Robinson 2 les
4. Dork- ZERO les
Last edited by George Gervin's Afro; 04-09-2007 at 10:34 AM.
Duncan is more effective and won againts better compe ion than Hakeem
I think that is a fair ranking although I think Duncan may surpass Hakeem by the time his career is over.
Amazing how Duncan compares right up there with two athletes of incomparable physical ability--especially when his physical assets remind you more of Mark Eaton.
1 duncan
2 drob
3 gervin
4 hakeem
I would put Gervin ahead of Dirk
Hakeem = a much more athletic version of Duncan. Much better than Duncan defensively and one of the few bigs with more moves and range than Tim. He also shot FT's much better than Tim. The only facet of Tim's game which is better than Hakeem's is passing.
Both Elie and Horry played with Duncan and Hakeem and rank Hakeem higher of the 2.
The original list is right on.
I also dont get the better compe ion comment. Hakeem competed against DRob, Ewing, Kareem, Moses, Daugherty, Shaq, K.Malone/Stockton, Barkley, etc. That was a much tougher era of basketball.
You think Tim has had to play teams the caliber of the 86 Celtics and late 80's Lakers (2 of the best dynasties ever) like a young Hakeem did?
how can you put Nowitzki ahead of Gervin?
Hakeem defended his le. Duncan, nope.
Thats all this asshat has to comeback with.
he defended he defended.
hakeem is lucky Jordan was suspend errrrr retired for 2 years.
Yeah, all he had to do that yr Jordan came back in 95 was rumble through 4 60 win teams in the playoffs, including the MVP David Robinson and Shaq O'Neal. Talk about luck.
Thats all this asshat has to comeback with.
he defended he defended.
hakeem is lucky Jordan was suspend errrrr retired for 2 years.
I mean facing Larry Johnson and Kenyon Martin in the Finals is much harder than David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, or O'Neal, right? Oh wait, those are 3 of the top 10 C's of all time.
Was Tim not "lucky" that Jordan retired in 98 so he didnt face him in 99?
It cuts both ways.
However, to the Rocket fan, would you rather win back to back or every other year for 10 yrs? Back to back is nice and impressive, but not the be-all, end all, certainly not in a comparison of 2 individual players.
It's homerism to think that Gervin was a better all time player than Nowitzki btw. Nowitzki has passed that level. The league has rarely seen 7 footers with the skillset of Dirk and he's led some great teams which have accomplished more than Gervin's teams did.
Gervin is a HOF for sure. Nowitzki, we don't know about yet.
And there is no inherent trait that keeps 7 footers from being good shooters. All they have to do is work at it, just like any guard. In fact, that's how Nowitzki gets a lot of his shots off - he's taller than most of his defenders and just shoots right over them. I'm not saying he isn't talented, I'm simply saying that his being a good shooter at 7 feet is not more impressive than a very good shooter who is 6'5"
good points.Yeah, all he had to do that yr Jordan came back in 95 was rumble through 4 60 win teams in the playoffs, including the MVP David Robinson and Shaq O'Neal. Talk about luck.
I mean facing Larry Johnson and Kenyon Martin in the Finals is much harder than David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, or O'Neal, right? Oh wait, those are 3 of the top 10 C's of all time.
Was Tim not "lucky" that Jordan retired in 98 so he didnt face him in 99?
It cuts both ways.
However, to the Rocket fan, would you rather win back to back or every other year for 10 yrs? Back to back is nice and impressive, but not the be-all, end all, certainly not in a comparison of 2 individual players.
It's homerism to think that Gervin was a better all time player than Nowitzki btw. Nowitzki has passed that level. The league has rarely seen 7 footers with the skillset of Dirk and he's led some great teams which have accomplished more than Gervin's teams did.
Azz hat t park here is following me around here ever since he was owned on this thread and was even called out by another Spursfan too.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...34#post1558534
should i be surprised that rocket fan values le defense over three les? what's next, piston fan valuing les more obtained when jordan was playing?
A 7 footer who can shoot is a much more rare asset and thus more valuable than a 6'5" shooter.
Most 7 footers rely on their size as their biggest weapon and dont bother investing in the finer points of the game. So yes, it is more impressive because a 7 footer has less of a sense of urgency to become a great shooter because of his height.
It's also much tougher to defend because 7 footers arent used to guarding other 7 footers at the perimeter. You seen Duncan try to guard Dirk? It's usually not pretty.
Gervin did play in a tougher era, but Dirk has turned it on to a level the past few years which surpasses Gervin. The combination of his shooting touch and ability to put it on the floor makes him an almost impossible cover 1 on 1. And he's no slouch as a rebounder. Gervin was an outstanding scorer, but other facets of his game were unremarkable, especially his defense.
I think in the end it's pretty debatable who's better because they are going to end up in the same tier of players.
then how come there aren't more?? Since being a 7ft shooter is a great advantage because you can shoot over people, you would think more would do it. But there are very few. It's actually almost impossible for a 7footer to have that kind of skill set. It requires coordination, and agility that are beyond normal. And if Dirk isn't a surefire HOF yet, which i think he is just by being probably the best European player ever, by May when he gets his MVP trophy he will be.
good post. using jordan as a reason for why the rockets had it so easy (they didn't) and then omitting the fact that he retired in 98 is homer b.s. anyway, this thread is really just a front for putting spurs on a pedestal, dissing hakeem (for the select few dumbasses) and calling dirk silly names like dork.Yeah, all he had to do that yr Jordan came back in 95 was rumble through 4 60 win teams in the playoffs, including the MVP David Robinson and Shaq O'Neal. Talk about luck.
I mean facing Larry Johnson and Kenyon Martin in the Finals is much harder than David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, or O'Neal, right? Oh wait, those are 3 of the top 10 C's of all time.
Was Tim not "lucky" that Jordan retired in 98 so he didnt face him in 99?
It cuts both ways.
However, to the Rocket fan, would you rather win back to back or every other year for 10 yrs? Back to back is nice and impressive, but not the be-all, end all, certainly not in a comparison of 2 individual players.
It's homerism to think that Gervin was a better all time player than Nowitzki btw. Nowitzki has passed that level. The league has rarely seen 7 footers with the skillset of Dirk and he's led some great teams which have accomplished more than Gervin's teams did.
Last edited by ponky; 04-09-2007 at 01:34 AM.
good post ponky!!!^^
^you are dumb my friend, in any way possible
that's one way to look at it. here's anotherYeah, all he had to do that yr Jordan came back in 95 was rumble through 4 60 win teams in the playoffs, including the MVP David Robinson and Shaq O'Neal. Talk about luck.
I mean facing Larry Johnson and Kenyon Martin in the Finals is much harder than David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, or O'Neal, right? Oh wait, those are 3 of the top 10 C's of all time.
Was Tim not "lucky" that Jordan retired in 98 so he didnt face him in 99?
It cuts both ways.
However, to the Rocket fan, would you rather win back to back or every other year for 10 yrs? Back to back is nice and impressive, but not the be-all, end all, certainly not in a comparison of 2 individual players.
It's homerism to think that Gervin was a better all time player than Nowitzki btw. Nowitzki has passed that level. The league has rarely seen 7 footers with the skillset of Dirk and he's led some great teams which have accomplished more than Gervin's teams did.
hakeem beat o'neal, ewing, and drob during his championship runs.
duncan beat o'neal twice, kobe twice, garnett, nowitzki, kidd, ray allen, amare stoudamire twice, and rasheed wallace twice.
hakeem beat the best-record spurs w/current mvp drob.
duncan beat the best-record suns w/current mvp nash.
hakeem was 15-8 during his first championship run.
duncan was 15-2 during his first championship run.
hakeem was 15-7 during his second championship run.
duncan was 16-8 during his second championship run.
hakeem was ... he didn't have a third championship run.
duncan was 16-7 during his third championship run.
duncan beat 2 current nba champions on his way to three les, one was a three time champ.
hakeem beat 0 champs to win two les. hakeem beat two teams that could only beat the bulls cause jordan played baseball.
oh yeah, gervin was one of the first 6'8" guards to play and won four scoring les when guards never dreamed of it. his team accomplishments neared what dirk has done, except maybe lose in the finals.
Last edited by Dave McNulla; 04-09-2007 at 01:46 AM.
A few quick points.
Gervin was far more than just a "shooter". He could score from absolutely anywhere on the court including the paint. 4 scoring les in 5 seasons (for a guard no less) is no joke. Ice Man was about as close to unguardable as it gets.
The guy shot over 50% for his career (in a much tougher era), a number Dirk yet has to touch in one season. Dirk has become very dominant on offense but not at the level of Gervin.
Dirk's defense has been unremarkable too. He's shown improvement lately but the majority of his career has been unimpressive.
Dirk might pass Ice on a list like this in the future because he has a great shot at winning some championships, mvps, and continuing to improve his d. IMO he's not there yet.
Gervin IS HOF and top 50 of all time.Gervin is a HOF for sure
Nice post, Dave.
Tim didnt beat Jordan in 1999. He beat an 8 seeded Knicks team, pretty much the worst team in the history of the NBA to make the NBA Finals.
Are you just ignorant? Do you not realize that a Spurs fan saying Hakeem benefitted from MJ being gone is pretty asinine considering MJ retired the year before Duncan won his first ring and Duncan never faced the GOAT himself? Your argument would only have merit if Duncan's teams were beating the Bulls and Hakeem's rockets weren't.
Yes, Tim did get by Shaq. He was also 2-3 lifetime against O'Neal in the playoffs in his prime. Not a winning record.
"hakeem beat o'neal, ewing, and drob during his championship runs.
duncan beat o'neal twice, kobe twice, garnett, nowitzki, kidd, ray allen, amare stoudamire twice, and rasheed wallace twice"
-Call me crazy but I think getting by Malone/Stockton in back 2 back years (Duncan lifetime in the playoffs vs. Malone was 0-2), Shaq (1-0 for Hakeem; 2-3 for Duncan), Barkley in his prime (2-0 for hakeem), DRob is tougher than getting by Kidd, Ray Allen, Amare, Rasheed, etc. Mentioning Amare is pretty crazy too. the SPURS beat the SUNS in 2005 but Amare dominated Duncan, pouring in 37 ppg that series.
Malone/Barkley/DRob/Ewing/Stockton are all HOFers. Allen, Kidd, Amare, Rasheed, etc are not.
Tim did get by the HOF Combo of Kobe/Shaq, but like I said he was 2-3 in the postseason against these guys.
Hakeem's Rockets also beat the 86 Lakers 4-1 in the playoffs. That team had 2 guys you may have heard of, Kareem and Magic. Pretty convenient you leave that out. They were defending Champions that year and pretty much one of the top team's EVER.
Anyway, we are really arguing team successes vs. individual successes.
https://www.nbrpa.com/news/editorial/8_25_06_P2.aspx
Robert Horry, who played with Shaq, Hakeem, and TD ranked them Hakeem 1, Shaq 2, and TD 3. Elie ranked Hakeem over TD as well.
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