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Waiting us out in Pakistan, where many of them actually are.
Okay, for the re ed, we'll rephrase the credo, "We fight them there so we don't have to fight ALL of them here."
Only a simple-minded, liberal, Bush-hating, absolutist wad would fail to understand that. , even Zawahiri knows why they're not being more active in the United States; it's because, most of al Qaeda's best and brightest are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan.
So, you tell me, where would they be if not fighting us in Iraq?
Waiting us out in Pakistan, where many of them actually are.
So why are Al-Qaida's ranks expanding world wide? Please explain how there are more terrorists now than before the unecessary war? The unecessary war that was supposed to stop them from coming here? Looks like another Bush failure..
So now the argument has been revised again to now being the 'best and brightest' of Al-Qaeda is in Iraq. Thanks Yoni for clearing that up..
So GGA, your contention is that before the Iraq war that
no war existed? Is that correct? That Iraq caused
Al Qaeda to exist? Is that correct?
Could you please expound on that theory. I want no
links, just you thoughts on why this problem with
terrorist exist.
And anyone else that wants to jump in, please feel
free to do so. I really do want to know how Bush caused
all this.
Waiting us out?
If we weren't in Iraq, what would they be waiting us out for?
You do realize that attempting to argue with GGA is coming dangerously close to having as little common sense as he does....
Obiously, if you stick your head in the sand, there is no problem, how hard is that to figure out?
It worked for all of the 20th century...until Bush caused them to become suicide bombers.
Trying it with roaches sometime...
Pretend they aren't there, and watch how they disappear. It works...it really does.
Killing them only causes more roaches!
Are you saying they aren't there?
You want to know why terrorisms exists?
There a fanatics that want the world under a strict Islamic rule and will do anything to kill or convert all infidels. They want to kill all Isrealis and Americans and convert everyone else.
Maybe you, Yoni and Whott ain't so bright but IRAQ is doing nothing to alleviate the problem. Sorry I want to caveat this statement: According to Yoni we are killing the best and brightest of al-qaeda in Iraq..
Now on to the unecessary war.
Well ray IF Iraq is a part of the war on terror yet the people who want to kill us aren't there nor were they ther prior to the war. So since we decided to try this liberation experiment/nation building trist their numbers have increased. SINCE THE WAR STARTED THEIR NUMBERS HAVE INCREASED. You can choose to play stupid and ask me more unrelated questions but you cannot argue with this. This is fact!
I will give you credit Whott I like your roach analogy but like terrorists you can't kill them all so what's next? More liberation experiments?
Bad analogy.
Roaches reproduce through laying eggs.
Religious fanatics reproduce through convincing others to become fanatics through propaganda.
More propaganda=more fanatics
I will ask you:
Has the Iraq war provided Al Qaeda with propaganda they can use to recruit new members?
Since I know you won't answer that honestly, I will do it for you:
Yes, Iraq has provided Al-Qaeda with a propaganda bonanza.
We are not killing the roaches, we are feeding them.
Prove to me there are more terrorists now...
I can certainly prove there are more dead ones...
So lets take this one step at a time:
We didn't have five embassies bombed?
We didn't have a barracks in Saudi Arabia bombed?
We didn't have the WTC bombed twice?
We didn't have a plot to take down planes over the
pacific?
We didn't have a nightclub bombed in Germany?
We didn't have bombs planted in England?
We didn't have bombs planted in Spain?
We don't have terrorist operating in Yemen?
We don't have terrorist operating in the Philippines?
You are saying that all the above happened because
of an unnecessary war in Iraq.
Oh, and lets not forgot the former Yugoslavia. You
know Kosovo.
Where would you like to start to stop these folks. In
downtown San Antonio at the Alamo?
Want to tell me?
I don't see it that way at all...
There always going to be stupid people that get in the way...
You know, like women who fall in love with jailed serial killers...
So any casue is going to attract some pct of idiots...
There always going to be idiots...
However, when it becomes possible for the roaches to nuke us, and there are leaders seeking and willing to provide that tech to those roaches?
You most definitely can get rid of those leaders...
I want you to give me a link that proves there are more terrorists now than there were before Iraq...
Prove it...
Otherwise you are nothing more than propaganda...
And you say the exact same thing Usama says....
Funny how Syria, Saudi, Iran and Pakistan don't have roach issues...
If these guys are so ing tough, how come they couldn't rid of Saddam?
Stop bending over and spreading ass cheeks for a bunch of tin pot dictator wannabes.
you obviously thought it was important. why didn't you post it sooner instead of waiting to see if somebody else did first? jackass
So what does Iraq have to do with any of those incidences? We are talking about Iraq ray! Please don't tell me your one of those "well at least we're doing something" crowd.
^^I am asking you where do we draw the line?
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/24/wo...partner=rssnyt
Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terrorism Threat
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By MARK MAZZETTI
Published: September 24, 2006
WASHINGTON, Sept. 23 — A stark assessment of terrorism trends by American intelligence agencies has found that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks.
The classified National Intelligence Estimate attributes a more direct role to the Iraq war in fueling radicalism than that presented either in recent White House do ents or in a report released Wednesday by the House Intelligence Committee, according to several officials in Washington involved in preparing the assessment or who have read the final do ent.
The intelligence estimate, completed in April, is the first formal appraisal of global terrorism by United States intelligence agencies since the Iraq war began, and represents a consensus view of the 16 disparate spy services inside government. led “Trends in Global Terrorism: Implications for the United States,’’ it asserts that Islamic radicalism, rather than being in retreat, has metastasized and spread across the globe.
An opening section of the report, “Indicators of the Spread of the Global Jihadist Movement,” cites the Iraq war as a reason for the diffusion of jihad ideology.
The report “says that the Iraq war has made the overall terrorism problem worse,” said one American intelligence official.
More than a dozen United States government officials and outside experts were interviewed for this article, and all spoke only on condition of anonymity because they were discussing a classified intelligence do ent. The officials included employees of several government agencies, and both supporters and critics of the Bush administration. All of those interviewed had either seen the final version of the do ent or participated in the creation of earlier drafts. These officials discussed some of the do ent’s general conclusions but not details, which remain highly classified.
Officials with knowledge of the intelligence estimate said it avoided specific judgments about the likelihood that terrorists would once again strike on United States soil. The relationship between the Iraq war and terrorism, and the question of whether the United States is safer, have been subjects of persistent debate since the war began in 2003.
National Intelligence Estimates are the most authoritative do ents that the intelligence community produces on a specific national security issue, and are approved by John D. Negroponte, director of national intelligence. Their conclusions are based on analysis of raw intelligence collected by all of the spy agencies.
Analysts began working on the estimate in 2004, but it was not finalized until this year. Part of the reason was that some government officials were unhappy with the structure and focus of earlier versions of the do ent, according to officials involved in the discussion.
Previous drafts described actions by the United States government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal, and some policy makers argued that the intelligence estimate should be more focused on specific steps to mitigate the terror threat. It is unclear whether the final draft of the intelligence estimate criticizes individual policies of the United States, but intelligence officials involved in preparing the do ent said its conclusions were not softened or massaged for political purposes.
Frederick Jones, a White House spokesman, said the White House “played no role in drafting or reviewing the judgments expressed in the National Intelligence Estimate on terrorism.” The estimate’s judgments confirm some predictions of a National Intelligence Council report completed in January 2003, two months before the Iraq invasion. That report stated that the approaching war had the potential to increase support for political Islam worldwide and could increase support for some terrorist objectives.
Do ents released by the White House timed to coincide with the fifth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks emphasized the successes that the United States had made in dismantling the top tier of Al Qaeda.
“Since the Sept. 11 attacks, America and its allies are safer, but we are not yet safe,” concludes one, a report led “9/11 Five Years Later: Success and Challenges.” “We have done much to degrade Al Qaeda and its affiliates and to undercut the perceived legitimacy of terrorism.”
That do ent makes only passing mention of the impact the Iraq war has had on the global jihad movement. “The ongoing fight for freedom in Iraq has been twisted by terrorist propaganda as a rallying cry,” it states.
The report mentions the possibility that Islamic militants who fought in Iraq could return to their home countries, “exacerbating domestic conflicts or fomenting radical ideologies.
On Wednesday, the Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee released a more ominous report about the terrorist threat. That assessment, based entirely on unclassified do ents, details a growing jihad movement and says, “Al Qaeda leaders wait patiently for the right opportunity to attack.”
The new National Intelligence Estimate was overseen by David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats, who commissioned it in 2004 after he took up his post at the National Intelligence Council. Mr. Low declined to be interviewed for this article.
The estimate concludes that the radical Islamic movement has expanded from a core of Qaeda operatives and affiliated groups to include a new class of “self-generating” cells inspired by Al Qaeda’s leadership but without any direct connection to Osama bin Laden or his top lieutenants.
It also examines how the Internet has helped spread jihadist ideology, and how cyberspace has become a haven for terrorist operatives who no longer have geographical refuges in countries like Afghanistan.
In early 2005, the National Intelligence Council released a study concluding that Iraq had become the primary training ground for the next generation of terrorists, and that veterans of the Iraq war might ultimately overtake Al Qaeda’s current leadership in the constellation of the global jihad leadership.
But the new intelligence estimate is the first report since the war began to present a comprehensive picture about the trends in global terrorism.
In recent months, some senior American intelligence officials have offered glimpses into the estimate’s conclusions in public speeches.
“New jihadist networks and cells, sometimes united by little more than their anti-Western agendas, are increasingly likely to emerge,” said Gen. Michael V. Hayden, during a speech in San Antonio in April, the month that the new estimate was completed. “If this trend continues, threats to the U.S. at home and abroad will become more diverse and that could lead to increasing attacks worldwide,” said the general, who was then Mr. Negroponte’s top deputy and is now director of the Central Intelligence Agency.
For more than two years, there has been tension between the Bush administration and American spy agencies over the violence in Iraq and the prospects for a stable democracy in the country. Some intelligence officials have said the White House has consistently presented a more optimistic picture of the situation in Iraq than justified by intelligence reports from the field.
Spy agencies usually produce several national intelligence estimates each year on a variety of subjects. The most controversial of these in recent years was an October 2002 do ent assessing Iraq’s illicit weapons programs. Several government investigations have discredited that report, and the intelligence community is overhauling how it analyzes data, largely as a result of those investigations.
The broad judgments of the new intelligence estimate are consistent with assessments of global terrorist threats by American allies and independent terrorism experts.
The panel investigating the London terrorist bombings of July 2005 reported in May that the leaders of Britain’s domestic and international intelligence services, MI5 and MI6, “emphasized to the committee the growing scale of the Islamist terrorist threat.”
[B]More recently, the Council on Global Terrorism, an independent research group of respected terrorism experts, assigned a grade of “D+” to United States efforts over the past five years to combat Islamic extremism. The council concluded that “there is every sign that radicalization in the Muslim world is spreading rather than shrinking.”
The "New York Times" Hey give us a credible news source, okay?
Well in hindsight I don't know. I am all about being on the offensive but can we at least be smart about it? What I do know is you don't take actions that could make things worse than they already are.
^^I said credible? BBC and New York Times........holy smokes
So you will admit that they want to kill us because we
are Americans. Even though we have many Muslims in
this country and let them worship freely, without interference, and in their own way/fashion. As we do
with all religions, even some I don't have any idea how
you can call them religions. But to each his own.
And your contention is that had we not invaded Iraq
their numbers would have remained the same or possibly
have decreased. Okay, so lets say your thoughts are
correct. Would their attacks on us have stopped,
decreased, remained the same or should we have just
accepted their hate for us and accepted their attacks
and death of our citizens. I mean, like they killed
how many in their attacks. How many being killed did it take to
start WWII. And how many have we had killed by
AQ. And don't forget one thing, we are in the country
that "also" harbored them and fighting them. Should
we abandoned that country also. You know since we
are more than likely creating more terrorist there.
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