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Should be Shaq or tim
The Big Fundamental
The Dream
It's useless to ask questions like this on a SPURS forum.
For the record however, I can't say I'd pick Dream, but I really like that a prime Dream was a better shot blocker and got more steals than Tim...
It's hard to turn down a guy who for example, put together a season where he averaged 24 PPG / 14 Rebounds / 4.6 BLK / 2.1 STL
Should be Shaq or tim
It would be a tough choice, IMHO, can't go wrong with either. Hakeem's peak is higher than TD, but TD's the easier franchise player to built around with -my subjectivity. So, TD's my choice personally -can't argue much against the opposite choice though.
The Big Fundamental = 3 rings (and potentially 1 more)
The Dream = 2 rings
Billups: 1 ring
Stockton: 0 rings
Nash: 0 rings
So Billups>>>Stockton and Nash?
records and dont mean a thing without the ring. if you ask me about brady and manning, i still pick brady because hes brought his team to the promised land more times than manning has.
Except that rings are a team, not an individual achievement.
Wilt only had 2 rings but is widely and easily considered bettered than Shaq who had 4 rings and TD who has 3 rings and Kareem who had more than Wilt as well.
Not to even mention that it's ridiculous to compare rings of people from different eras. Different levels of compe ion, different qualities of supporting casts.
By your logic, you come up with ridiculous statements like Billups being better than Stockton or Troy Aikman being better than Dan Marino and Steve Young.
Heck, by your logic does David Robinson = Wilt Chamberlain because both had the same # of rings? lol.
No, the simple fact is that Tim Led those teams to a championship.
And Hakeem played with a superstar in Drexler who was still avg 20 a game, and he had really good shooters and defenders in maxwell and horry, pure shooters in Cassell and Smith, and good help in Thorpe and Horry. Not to mention some clutch bench players.
Tim led the spurs to a le with washed up veterans at one time in 99, and then a bunch of rookies.
Tim also faced Shaquille Oneal in his Dominant era of 99-05. Stood down Garnett, And was the defensive anchor all his tenure.
If tim was living in the 90's there no question he'd be on the all defensive 1st team.
, theres no way The Dream could of stopped the LakerDynasty of the Millenium in Shobe and Snaq.
Shaq was a beast during his run, and hakeem would of been raped physically.
Tim Duncan...without even thinking a second about it.
Duncan does a better job of making his teamates better, he's more of a team player, he's less selfish, and I think he's just as good as Hakeem on the block....
But also because Hakeem could be a horses's ass and pout for half the season if he wasn't happy, wasn't getting the ball enough....wasn't get paid enough. Put it this way...Hakeem wasn't in the business of taking paycuts, that's for damn sure.
And other stuff.
Duncan's teams have never missed the post season, they always excel....some of that is tribute to Duncan's teamates in at least one season, but most of it for the past 5 years has been tribute to Duncan...
And I think Duncan is playing the best basketball of his career...right now...like Hakeem did, after turning 30. He's playing as well as Hakeem ever did in the post season IMO. More consistent even.,
I take Tim Duncan over Hakeem in a split second.
We should base the player on his whole carreer, not just a couple of years.
Cuz if we go the Hakeem jockers route, 2005 Ginobilli >> Lebron James today.
Bobby Joe, do you want 2 rings and half the effort. Or 4 and still more to come and 110 percent.
What an absolute crock of from someone who rates Hakeem over Robinson on the basis of one playoff series...
Live by the ring argument, die by it.
The Hakeem the Steam Olajuwon was also know to be a very childish player, what motivated him to play at a high level in the second run wasn't his team, but for the fact that he didn't get an MVP trophy and he felt betrayed becuase he felt he deserved it after whining all season.
I mean he did what he did, and that was great, but what a crybaby and a narcisist.
IF you would of had Hakeem playing with DelNegro, Johnson, elliot, and mings, Hakeem wouldn't have beaten the SUns that year or The Knicks before that.
He wouldn't even have made it to the alamodome to get butthurt over Drobs trophy.
Hakeem the dream with outside shooters, is Patrick ewing with better mobility and a higher amount of steals.
bobbyjoe...don't try to hide in the regular season...
If you do, you better start looking at the records Hakeem's teams had...in the years they made the playoffs.
And people need to stop saying Hakeem never had any talent...
He had Robert ing Horry(and yes, he mattered)
Sam Cassel
Mario Elie
Kenny Smith
Clyde Freaking Drexler
Otis Thorpe(20 and 10 All Star Big)
He also played with Ralph Sampson, and Charles Barkley, and Scottie Pippen.
well that just blows my doctrine right out of the water. thats just how i look at it.
Right, and you also take DRob over Shaq in a split second. And George Gervin over Kobe Bryant and Clyde Drexler.
Hakeem had 2 playoff runs in 94 and 95 where he averaged over 30 ppg on 54% FG shooting, 11 boards, 3 plus blocks. Not only are those #'s much better than what Duncan is producing now, they came against
Pat Ewing in his prime
David Robinson in his MVP year
Shaq O'Neal
That comp is infinitely better than what Duncan has faced in the past few years. Hakeem shot a higher % from both the field and FT line in the postseason than Tim, blocked more shots, faced tougher compe ion, and scored more. Facts are facts.
Robert Horry and Mario Elie think it's an easy choice too, but what do they know? After all, they only played with both in their primes.
"Tim is good," said forward Robert Horry "But it's hard to label him because each person brought a different thing to the game. To pick the best, you had to go with `Dream' (Hakeem Olajuwon) because he did some of the things (Shaquille O'Neal) did, he does some of the things Tim does. He has a combination of both of them, so you had to look at him as probably being the best"
Q: “You mentioned that Olajuwon is the greatest player you played with. You also played with the Spurs and Tim Duncan and David Robinson, who was obviously up there in years at that point in time but still a good player. What are your memories of playing with them? Since you do feel that Olajuwon is the greatest player you played with, compare his game to Duncan’s. Some people see a little similarity between their games. What do you think of that?”
Elie: “I love Tim. I think he may be the second best player I played with “Exactly. I just think that ‘Dream’ was more athletic, had a better game on the box and was a better shot blocker. Tim is a great defender. He gets his arms up and he blocks a couple shots, but ‘Dream’ was an amazing shot blocker. Like you said, he had great hands. He was always hitting the ball away from guys.”
Your recollection of Hakeem is a joke. This is the guy who when presented with the MVP award in 1994 called his entire team out to accept the award. Yeah, how selfish of a guy he was. Anyone who watched basketball in the 90's knew that Hakeem was a terrific guy for the league on and off the court.
As for making teammates better, guys like Horry and Finley have been established players in this league for many, many years. Ditto with David Robinson who was an MVP before Duncan arrived. Tony Parker with his combination of quicks and improved jumper would be a nightmare matchup regardless of where he played. Ditto for Ginobili, who led Argentina to amazing success.
I'm sorry but "making players better" is something that only truly be said about a handful of players in this game and none of them were Centers/PF's. This is Steve Nash/Magic Johnson/Larry Bird territory. Getting a guy easier shots and erasing a guy's mistakes defensively is not the same as making a person a better player, but this is something both Hakeem and Duncan did successfully.
What about the year Hakeem couldn't get his team to the playoffs?
Prior to Hakeem winning championships, he did pout, he did tank it in the regular season, he did tank it over contract issues...fact. Fact. Fact. Fact.
Were you a fan back then? Because if you were you'd know all those things happened...you might excuse him for doing it...but they definitely happened.
Hakeem got his ass kicked out in the first round many a time in his career...
And his teams had a lot of substandard records..mid 40 wins...
It's ludicrous to say he didn't have talent when he won thos championships........
Hakeem owned David Robinson. I guess some never got over it to say something this stupid. We all know it was his trophy and David didn't earn it. That was a case closed type of deal after the WCF fiasco.
Hakeem had a starting backcourt of Kenny Smith and Vernon Maxwell (the same guy the Spurs sold for $50 K cash) and took them to a le, so your argument about cast is stupid, but obviously you are out of bullets.
Saying Hakeem was Ewing with a better mobility just shows how utterly ignorant you are.
I notice you don't have any sort of explanation for why the 2 guys who played with both players in their primes ranked the Ewing clone as the better player without hesitation. I guess the truth just hurts?
Hakeem was probably the better individual player as his stats show.
But Duncan is obviously the better team player.
You want to build your team around a guy who not only is a great player, but is also a great teammate and can make the rest of your team better.
That's why I would pick Duncan.
1. Elie played with Duncan nearly 10 years ago.
2. Duncan is playing as well as Hakeem ever did in the post season...right now. Are you watching?
3. The only thing Hakeem owned related to David Robinson was the ing bench in foul trouble when he had to defend him.
Hakeem was winning 42 games with guys in their primes that DRob won 55 games with in their last season on the bench, and they were the best PG on the team.
Hakeem couldn't even make post season with the best PG Drob ever had.
Hakeem got hot in the biggest series of Drob's career...the rest of the time Drob got him. That's the facts.
And Drob never dogged it in the regular season like Hakeem did...he couldn't, his team would be in the lottery if he did. It's easy to save it for the post season when you are dogging it for 30 games of the season.
Hakeem got his skull cracked and his team went on the longest winning streak in team history without him..in fact, his team posted the best record in Rockets history that year and he was injured for half the season...
Drob got injured and it was the worst single season turnaround in NBA history.
None of those are facts. If they are facts, prove it. You can't because none of it is true.
If "tanking it prior to championships" means winning 2 rebounding les, beating the 1986 Lakers in your 2nd season with Magic and Kareem, ssetting single season records for blocked shots, and averaging 24/14/4.6 blks/2.1 steals, that's the best tank job in the history of time.
I don't see what missing the playoffs once in 15 years proves about anything. Look at the roster on that Houston team and tell me when Tim Duncan has once played with a roster that talent deprived.
FYI, 1/15 is 6%. When your biggest bullet is that a guy didnt make the playoffs once in his 15 year prime, you are putting all the focus on a very tiny sliver of the overall pie and that basically shows how weak the overall argument is.
Maybe you weren't a fan back in the 80's, but the reason the Rockets TEAM went into several seasons of mid 40 win years is because Ralph Sampson fizzled out as an NBA Player and the Rockets had 3 of their best 6 players suspended for cocaine use (Mitc Wiggins, Llewis Lloyd, and John Lucas). The team was gutted.
This would be equivalent to the league suspending Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Bruce Bowen next year. Do you think the Spurs would be expected to win 60 games for the next 2-3 years if this sort of incident happened? WOuld that be a slight on Duncan if this happened and the Spurs only won 45 games the next 2 years?
You name some of the better players Hakeem played with. Except you ignore the years before those players got there and the years that Houston was forced to rebuild after losing 4 of their best 6 players to drugs and injuries. Conveniently ignoring obviously.
And was mentioning Pippen a joke? I mean Hakeem was 36 years old when that happened. The Hakeem of that year was about as good as Fabricio Oberto is now.
See bobbyjoe...I don't think you understand the question...
The question is not...
Who had the best 2 year playoff run, and who has the best career numbers...
Who is perhaps the most talented....
The question is...who do you take?
I take Duncan...all the positives, none of the negatives.
Hakeem was not a better block scorer than Duncan is...he's probably a better defender...but Hakeem was not a shutdown defender...he was very similar to Duncan, it was very much a team thing...and he was foul prone if he was forced to defend a C of equal talent.
But you are wrong...Hakeem did dog it over contract issues, he drug them into the media, he faked injury...
Yeah he put up some nice numbers...he also tanked it from time to time.
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