Bad Bad Refs NOT Spurs fault

[airjer15]

I want the game called fairly, which it absolutely was. You are the one in here asking for help from the refs. You know absolutely that the hardest fouls in the game were committed by the Jazz and not by the Spurs. Too bad you aren't man enough to admit it. Perhaps you should become a Suns fan. The Jazz are too classy for you to root for, especially if you think what Joey Crawford did was right.

I am a Jazz fan that has season ticket and I have to drive 2 and a half hours to get to the game, and then when its over it takes about 3 hours to get home because of traffic,i would say that my heart is pretty into it. don't think I am saying the Jazz would of won if the game if it was called fair, but as a Spurs fan if the calls were 25-2 the other way, you dont think you would of had a problem with that. I am pretty sure you would have. And about Joey Crawford, do you really think if the same thing happened to Stephen Jackson, that it would of been made such a big deal. I don't think so

[Obstructed_View]

I am a Jazz fan that has season ticket and I have to drive 2 and a half hours to get to the game, and then when its over it takes about 3 hours to get home because of traffic,i would say that my heart is pretty into it. don't think I am saying the Jazz would of won if the game if it was called fair, but as a Spurs fan if the calls were 25-2 the other way, you dont think you would of had a problem with that. I am pretty sure you would have. And about Joey Crawford, do you really think if the same thing happened to Stephen Jackson, that it would of been made such a big deal. I don't think so

I don't give a rat's ass how long it takes for your mom to drive you to the game, re . Your heart might be into it, but your brain is somewhere else, because the Spurs earned those calls. Your team wasn't even in the bonus the entire quarter. If you are a season ticket holder you should know that Jerry Sloan's mantra is not to allow three point plays, and the Jazz were fouling when caught out of position. You claim to have gone back and watched the game on your big expensive TV and you still can't admit that your team just got outhustled by better players who were more aggressive and wanted it more, yet you are in here ing about a bad call that was corrected, just because it wasn't called in your favor. Again I say: you.

[IceColdBrewski]

[WalterBenitez]

I will admit that I am venting but
I am a big Jazz fan, and I was at game 4, I could not believe my eyes . I can not believe that the best of the best NBA officials can be so bad. Luckly I also recorded the game at home, watching the replays from my 120 inch hd projector the calls were just as bad, I was pretty ashamed of the refs, I did not throw anything, but all you big mouths that are trashing on Jazz fans, if you were there you could probably understand why some people would. And for those of you that say the Jazz fans caused the refs to favor the Spurs, then you agree that the refs didn't do there jobs.

Okey ... I will trash all fans except you just kidding, airjer15 what we are talking is those fans (apparently Jazz fans) wearing in Jazz's jerseys sending message thru garbage to our kids, got that .

I watched the game in my 14" old TV and refs sucks all the time , technology has nothing to with that ...

[samikeyp]

I did not throw anything, but all you big mouths that are trashing on Jazz fans, if you were there you could probably understand why some people would.

Bull .

There is NEVER any excuse to throw things on to the court or at the players. I get that you are pissed and if the Spurs were down 3-1 I would be too but never to the point that I would be so ignorant, immature or stupid enough to act like a ing 3 year old and throw something.

[texbound]

I will admit that I am venting but
I am a big Jazz fan, and I was at game 4, I could not believe my eyes . I can not believe that the best of the best NBA officials can be so bad. Luckly I also recorded the game at home, watching the replays from my 120 inch hd projector the calls were just as bad, I was pretty ashamed of the refs, I did not throw anything, but all you big mouths that are trashing on Jazz fans, if you were there you could probably understand why some people would. And for those of you that say the Jazz fans caused the refs to favor the Spurs, then you agree that the refs didn't do there jobs.

Well, I was on the Spurs bench for that game and then I came home and watched the replay on my 200,000 inch SUPERMEGA HD movie screen. In fact, I watched the game in 1/100 speed and still saw the fouls. Yes, the refs did miss some (ones not called or ones that were questionable) but the majority were correct. So there, I had a better view than you.

I did not throw anything, but all you big mouths that are trashing on Jazz fans, if you were there you could probably understand why some people would.

Umm..no. It's great that you didn't throw anything, but the fact that you sympathize with the throwers shows what kind of person you are. I don't care what the other team or refs did, that kind of classless act has no place in sports. Accept the loss and move on with your life.

[WalterBenitez]

Well, I was on the Spurs bench for that game and then I came home and watched the replay on my 200,000 inch SUPERMEGA HD movie screen. In fact, I watched the game in 1/100 speed and still saw the fouls. Yes, the refs did miss some (ones not called or ones that were questionable) but the majority were correct. So there, I had a better view than you..

do you know when they arrived to South America?

[Texas_Ranger]

The game is over, so stop crying about it.

[Sec24Row7]

Did you say that Tim Duncan took a cheap shot at Derrick Fisher?


ROFL...

[SpursIndonesia]

Utah fan, you have the right to be dissappointed, but you don't have the right to claim that your view of the game's officiating is the impartial, most correct & righteous point of view.

Ofcourse, we Spurs fans couldn't claim the exact thing either, but then, judging from the articles in Salt Lake Tribune or Deseret News, i think most logical people who could set aside their rose colored glass can figure out the factual reality happened in that game, considering those news sites are actually from Utah.

IMHO, those articles seem closer to our side of story than yours.

[Solid D]

Jazz fans are certainly passionate. The fans at the Energy Solutions Arena really get behind their team. I tune them out after a while, though, because they boo every play that doesn't end up in favor of the Jazz. Although, when their fans boo an intentional foul to get the ball back, I do have to laugh a little.

[Sec24Row7]

The calls you have a legitimate gripe to about...


Oberto's uncalled goaltend...

I miss anything?


*Crickets Chirping*

[DarrinS]

Blame your team for not being agressive and driving to the rim. The aggressors get the calls (see Manu). The refs didn't force the Jazz to shoot tons of jump shots in the 4th.

[FromWayDowntown]

This sort of incessent whining caused me to go back and re-watch the 4th quarter and to make notes about each play and what was called or not called. My perception during the game was that the Spurs were being insanely aggressive in attacking the rim, while the Jazz were settling for jumpers. Not remarkably, the Spurs got the larger percentage of foul calls. But I wanted to be sure that I was right. Here's what I observed on re-watching.

Here are the Spurs' 4th quarter possessions:

11:47 -- Duncan drives and is fouled by a clear Harpring hack (2 FT/2)
11:15 -- Ginobili drive to the rim - Milsap called for a block; Van Gundy says "definite block upon seeing a replay" (2 FT/4).
11:15 -- Sloan assessed a technical; Van Gundy questions T (1 FT/5)
10:28 -- Horry charge on Millsap
9:58 -- Ginobili drives to rim after retrieving loose ball -- fouled hard by Okur (2 FT/7)
9:20 -- Ginobili 3 point make
8:55 -- Ginobili misses 5 foot runner in lane
8:50 -- Duncan turnover
8:19 -- Vaughn misses 22 foot jumper
7:38 -- Duncan misses 11 foot fadeaway
7:36 -- Ginobili misses tip
7:35 -- Oberto makes tip -- ball probably on the rim; basket shouldn't have counted
6:51 -- Duncan makes the catch at 7 feet, turns baseline into lane to shoot and is hit by Okur; Van Gundy says "clearly a foul." (2 FT/9)
6:37 -- Parker uncontested layup
5:54 -- Finley 3 point miss
5:07 -- Oberto layup blocked by Kirilenko
4:45 -- Duncan on left block, stripped by Boozer on turn to middle of lane; regains possession and hacked by Boozer on reacquisition in lane (2 FT/11)
4:24 -- Duncan drives baseline on Boozer; hacked at rim; broadcast notes "Boozer didn't question the call." (2 FT/13)
3:57 -- Ginobili fouled on 3 point attempt by Fisher -- clear contact with shooting hand (3 FT/16)
3:30 -- Parker uncontested 21 foot jumper missed
3:11 -- Ginobili drives and attempts layup; hit by Boozer; possible embellishment flop by Ginobili; clear contact by Boozer (2 FT/18)
2:36 -- Ginobili layup made; mix-up with Fisher just inside 3 point arc before drive -- clear Fisher flop
2:36 -- Fisher and Sloan assessed T's (2 FT/20)
2:03 -- Duncan turnover, bad pass
1:31 -- Oberto 12 foot baseline fadeway, hit by Okur on release; Mark Jackson says "that's just a bad foul by Okur" (2 FT/22)
0:52.1 -- Fisher fouls Ginobili hard on 22 foot jump shot (2 FT/24); possible Ginobili push off before shot attempt; posssible Fisher flop on play.
0:52.1 -- Fisher Technical (1 FT/25)
0:20.0 -- Vaughn turnover, bad pass

Net -- Spurs had roughly 25 possessions in the quarter. They had 4 turnovers in that time. They attempted 3 three pointers (Manu got fouled on one). They had 5 attempts from more than 10 feet and inside the arc. (one foul on Oberto attempt; one foul on Manu attempt). The remaining 13 possessions (more than half of the Spurs total possessions in the quarter) involved drives/moves to the rim that ended in the paint. They drew fouls on 7 of those drives -- not all that unusual.

Now, here are the Jazz 4th quarter possessions:

11:20 -- Giricek misses uncontested 8 foot floater
10:54 -- Harpring makes 10 foot baseline fade away
10:18 -- Offensive foul on Okur, clearout
9:41 -- Boozer makes 14 foot jumper
9:08 -- Williams drive, turnover -- possible foul on Duncan, no call
8:35 -- Vaughn deflects Williams pass, turnover
7:57 -- Williams 3 point miss, top of the key
7:08 -- Williams makes contested layup, no apparent contact
6:38 -- Kirilenko unforced bad pass
6:19 -- Kirilenko dunk, uncontested
5:38 -- Williams posts up in restricted area and is fouled by Parker on the pass
5:31 -- Okur makes uncontested 12 foot baseline fade away
5:00 -- Fisher misses 22 foot jumper
4:36 -- Boozer misses 14 foot jumper; Duncan makes soft contest, no contact
4:09 -- Williams trapped in lane on drive, pass to Kirilenko for uncontested 11 foot baseline jumper
3:46 -- Williams misses driving layup; Duncan contests shot, but remains straight up and down and makes no body contact; Breen says "Duncan did a good job of going straight up" and Van Gundy says "San Antonio does a great job inside of pulling their hands back and not fouling."
3:22 -- Williams drive, fouled by Ginobili (2 FT/2)
3:00 -- Kirilenko misses uncontested 3 pointer
2:24 -- Boozer makes 4 foot floater/layup; Duncan soft contest, no contact on shot
1:53 -- Kirilenko dunk; Duncan soft contest, but no contact
1:24 -- Williams makes 15 foot uncontested jumper; possible Williams push off on Bowen before shot (ala Jordan on Russell in 98 Finals)
1:20 -- Millsap offensive rebound, fouled by Ginobili attempting tie-up; Ginobili strongly protests call, but isn't assessed a technical foul
1:13 -- Boozer misses 10 foot fade away; Duncan has hand on Boozer's hip on release
0:47 -- Brown misses 3 pointer
0:11 -- Millsap uncontested layup

Net -- Jazz also had about 25 possessions in the quarter. 4 possessions end in turnovers. 3 end in attempts from the three point line. 8 other possessions end up with shots from 10 feet and out (3 of those are fade away jumpers). 9 other possessions end up with the ball within 0-8 feet of the rim; of those 3 draw foul calls, 2 end up with uncontested layups/dunks, 2 others end in Williams taking contested layups (but on one, there's clear evidence of no foul), another with a Giricek floater, and the last in a mildly contested Boozer layup. Of the Jazz's possessions, less than 40% are drives to the lane; discounting the uncontested layups and dunks, they draw fouls on 3 of 7 such efforts.

Ultimately, the free throw disparity grows out of 3 things I think: (1) the Spurs relentless attack on the rim from the start of the 4th quarter coupled with Utah's willingness to contest everything going to the rim; and (2) the Spurs managing to avoid fouling any jump shooters (Spurs got 5 of their FTA from fouled jumpshooters); and (3) Utah completely melting down and losing its poise (another 4 FTA from technicals).

[Obstructed_View]

The calls you have a legitimate gripe to about...


Oberto's uncalled goaltend...

I miss anything?


*Crickets Chirping*

Since replay showed the ball clearly out of the cylinder...

[SPARKY]

This sort of incessent whining caused me to go back and re-watch the 4th quarter and to make notes about each play and what was called or not called. My perception during the game was that the Spurs were being insanely aggressive in attacking the rim, while the Jazz were settling for jumpers. Not remarkably, the Spurs got the larger percentage of foul calls. But I wanted to be sure that I was right. Here's what I observed on re-watching....

That's definitely what I recall happening. The Jazz were cut off from drives to the rim and had to settle for outside Js due to the Spurs' D. The Spurs are the best in the league at increasing their defensive intensity without having to resort to hacking, as the Spurs' defense is based fundamentally on moving one's feet to stay in front of an offensive player and not so much on body contact and ball-hawking.

[DarrinS]

What waydowntown said.

[L.I.T]

This sort of incessent whining caused me to go back and re-watch the 4th quarter and to make notes about each play and what was called or not called....

Ummmm...whoa. Thank you. Great write-up.

[BreezeHillBill]

you can call a foul on almost any NBA play, cause there is always going to be contact, but not every one should be called, I can think of a time that Dwill drove to the basket and TD got him with the body, and a play were Milsap was mangled, you didn't see those?

So you're saying that they should just call some and divide them equally?

[BreezeHillBill]

its hard to keep taking it into the paint, when you will get fouled and you wont get the call. Come on get real 25 to 2. Its hard for the Jazz to keep any kind of momentum at home when Spurs are always at the line, do you really think all those free throw were legit.

It's hard, but that's what the Spurs keep doing. It's hard, but they take their lumps and keep coming. That's the whole point. You drive, you get fouled, you shake it off and score.

[ClingingMars]

gtfo whiners, seriously, even your own team won't blame the refs, why should you?

-Mars

[BreezeHillBill]

Blame your team for not being agressive and driving to the rim. The aggressors get the calls (see Manu). The refs didn't force the Jazz to shoot tons of jump shots in the 4th.

Sloan said after game 2 he was disappointed in the Jazz effort because "nobody was fouling out." The Jazz made it plain they intended to physically punish any Spur tryng to get to the rim. That being the case, why would the Spurs NOT keep collecting the fouls and FTs, unless they were intimidated? And they were not intimidated.

[SequSpur]

If it wasn't for the refs, the Spurs would've swept the Jazz and won every game by 20+ points....

[ambchang]

Also the Spurs are the only team that can tell a ref that he made a wrong call and then have the ref change the call, it happened on an out of bounds play in game 4

The refs change calls all the time, I am surprised you couldn't notice that on your 120' HD projector.
Perhaps you should get a 240' projector to help you see better.

[nkdlunch]

the refs ed the Spurs over for most of game 3 and they made it up to us in 4th quarter of game 4. we have some ty refs in this league