I wonder when the left will...

[George Gervin's Afro]

So, please put the Livingstone comments in context


That whole thread was about how people were taking Coulter's comments out of context. But, it wasn't me taking them out of context, I was putting them back in.


Translation: I don't know what the I'm talking about.


Who said rigid and unbending. Would it have been that hard to verify the decapitation murders of 20 people?


I suggest you see the other thread I started about the conflict within the CIA leading up to the war. The president had every reason to believe Saddam the intelligence he received supported his decision.

But, I understand that you can't defend the left, the press, the Muslims, or the idiots on this board. So, please, go ahead and deflect blame.


I'll try to survive the sharp criticism.

You've yet to answer any of the questions asked in this thread. Instead, you've tried to make this about me.

So, why do Pelosi and gang want to surrender in Iraq? And, why does the press make up negative stories about the war?

Show me a quote for pelosi or any dem for that matter mentioning surrender. As far as the press goes they simply got bad information and they had to make the decision to run the story based on the information they had( sound familiar?)

[PixelPusher]

...let us start fighting the war on terror like it needs to be fought.

Start fighting it how? Should we invade/occupy more ME countries than we already have so far? Shoud we suspend more civil liberties? Are there anymore God Emperor powers left that the Executive Branch hasn't already claimed?

[clambake]

This problem will soon be solved. "W" was seen fishing off the coast of Kennebunkport. Every dip old fart needs a moment of reflection to clear their mind(some hot, dark haired vixen was with him, and I understand she came back with a red snapper) and pretend our sons and daughters aren't gathering pieces of their comrades bodies placing them into cadaver bags. It's not like he's flying over the Ketrina disaster on his way to a golf resort. Let's give him the benefit we already doubt.

[xrayzebra]

Yoni you take comments out of context all of the time..(see the coulter v edward thread) so I won't waste my time but I do want to mention something. I have become more familiar with your style of argument. What I find with your arguments is that they seem to change when it comes to whomever is involved. Take the latest example of how you hold the press to rigid and unbending standard of accuracy. Using the exact same logic when I replace the press with the president you change the logic. I have felt for a long time you were a hypocrite but I could never put my finger on it until recently. There are many other situations that you caveat your way through similar scenerios when it comes to dems and the right. I would have more respect for you if you were more consistent but I can't figure out if you are doing it consciously. I study the way people argue as oppsed to what they are saying.. if you look at this board you can identify patterns of the way people argue .. rather than go for tat with you on various threads I just like to point out your inconsistencies.. you don't even realize it.. but that's alright you assume that you are so much smarter than I am and I don 't mind that...

And why shouldn't the press be held to a high standard?
They report "after" the fact. Using your own argument,
about Bush, he had to make a "decision" based on
information supplied to him by his intelligent community,
which by the way, was the same intelligence your
dimm-o-craps were citing in their arguments about
Saddam having WMD. And Saddam did have WMD, he
used it many times, the question is: What did he do
with it?

Remember something. The press is suppose to report:
Who
What
When
Where

Not opinion, unless it is reporting someone else opinion.
If it is their own, then it belongs on the editorial page.

[Yonivore]

Show me a quote for pelosi or any dem for that matter mentioning surrender.

Lawmakers Reject Immediate Iraq Withdrawal
Guess who were the three votes in favor of the resolution.

, I'll give 'em to you. Pelosi, Murtha, and Ron Paul.

Pelosi As far as the press goes they simply got bad information and they had to make the decision to run the story based on the information they had( sound familiar?)

When the press is faced with the responsibilities of a president, in the face of the aftermath of the most horrific attack on our country since Pearl Harbor, I'll cut them some slack.

But, after the Jamail Hussein debacle, earlier this year, you'd think they would have learned their lesson on relying on Iraqi stringers for information. I guess not. But, realistically, I don't think they really care if the information is reliable if it is bad news for the U. S.

This press is unashamedly becoming a tool for the enemy. So are you.

[Yonivore]

What happens when the press fails to report a story on which the source is not properly vetted?

That's right. Nothing.

What happens when the president fails to act on intelligence information, even if questionable or indefinite, that portends a repeat of a horrible day just months prior?

Now, what if it's Saddam Hussein's Iraq -- a regime already acting way outside international norm and committing atrocities on his own people while perverting the U.N. Oil For Food humanitarian aid and about to convince his friends in France, Germany, Russia, and the U.N. to help them get sanctions lifted?

That's right. You 'em up.

[Yonivore]

How 'bout a preview of what al Qaeda had in store for Iraq had we not intervened.

Michael Yon reports from Iraq. "As we passed through the village, Captain Combs pointed out the nice houses, saying the people had been simple farmers with comfortable homes and lives. Until al Qaeda came." What follows is a photo essay of what happens, actually happens, when the "militants" gain power over a village and proceed to turn it into the holy 8th century, the Year Zero or whatever those with the most recent scheme to turn the world into a paradise on earth want to call it.

Later in the day, some of the soldiers from the unit I share a tent with, the C-52, told me that one of their Kit Carson scouts (comprised of some of our previous enemies who have turned on al Qaeda) had pointed out an al Qaeda who had cut off the heads of children. Soldiers from C-52 say that the Kit Carson scout freaked out and tried to hide when he spotted the man he identified as an al Qaeda operative. Just how (or if) the scout really knew the man had beheaded children was unknown to the soldiers of C-52, but they took the suspected Al Qaeda to the police, who knew the man. C-52 soldiers told me the Iraqi police were inflamed, and that one policeman in particular was crazed with intent to kill the man who they said had the blood of Iraqi children on his hands. According to the story told to me on 30 June, it took almost 45 minutes for the C-52 soldiers to calm down the policeman who had drawn his pistol to execute the al Qaeda man. That same policeman nearly lost his mind when an American soldier then gave the al Qaeda man a drink of cold water.

"Crazed with intent." Now there's a nice phrase, but one wonders. Who was crazy, the cop who wanted to shoot the al-Qaeda child beheading specialist; was it the "militant" himself? Was it the C-52 troopers who instinctively offered the prisoner the automatic courtesies of civilization or the whole damn world?

One thing's for sure. Digital cameras take better pictures of massacre victims being exhumed from shallow graves than those old black and white Speed Graphics ever did. Color conveys more information. But whether the information ever gets conveyed depends on how willing one is to admit that those pictures could one day be of your family or of you. When it finally comes home the game is being played, not for media points, but for keeps.

And this is the nature of the enemy in Iraq.

Michael Ledeen comments further:

Yon's latest provides a clear picture of the terrorists' savage methods. Literally, because it's mostly photographs of what happened to a village that fell into the claws of al Qaeda. They just tore apart the villagers, their livestock, their children and women, and then boobytrapped the area to try to kill our guys, knowing that they would honor the dead.

And then I think about the terrorists' latest efforts in England and Scotland, where only innocents were targeted. And of course 9/11. And then I think of so many of our leaders, who seem to be preparing to retreat from Iraq (and therefore Afghanistan), thereby leaving the beasts, as Michael Yon properly calls them, an even broader area of operation.

And then I return to my mantra: the war is much bigger than iraq, we cannot win it in iraq alone, and there is no escape from this war. They are already here, and "bringing the boys home" will gain us nothing. It will only increase the number of victims.

Warning: some of the photos are rather graphic. Polls suggest that most Americans would rather abandon the field to this enemy than defeat it. I find that, frankly, incomprehensible.

[PixelPusher]

[PixelPusher]

How 'bout a preview of what al Qaeda had in store for Iraq had we not intervened.

Really? Was Saddam going to gut his own security forces, and allow Iraq to fall into anarchy? Those are the conditions that allowed al Qeada in Iraq to flourish.

And this is the nature of the enemy in Iraq.

Warning: some of the photos are rather graphic. Polls suggest that most Americans would rather abandon the field to this enemy than defeat it. I find that, frankly, incomprehensible.

So we are obligated to commit U.S. forces wherever human atrocities occur? When are we deploying to Darfur then?

[Duff McCartney]

So we are obligated to commit U.S. forces wherever human atrocities occur? When are we deploying to Darfur then?

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Yonivore]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Y'all have the Clintonian knack for compartmentalizing issues.

But that the humanitarian crisis in Iraq were the only issue you'd have a point in your tiny little brains.

[Yonivore]

Yet another facet of the war on terrorism.

TOP LEBANESE HEZBOLLAH BOMB-MAKER CAPTURED IN IRAQ

He then proceeds to confess he was sent by Iranian Quds Forces -- establishing a direct link to Iran -- and that he played a "crucial role" in the execution of 5 U. S. Soldiers in January.

Can the inevitable be avoided any longer?

I think Presidents have a lot of control over making crises into non-crises -- they just don't talk about them. They pretend they're not happening. They patrol carefully for leaks to keep the public from finding out there are serious threats to America ... which they'd rather not deal with right now, but were the public appraised of them, they might be forced to.

The Bush Administration hasn't exactly frozen news about Iran's complicity in Iraq out of the press -- officials have indeed mentioned it from time to time -- but they've really not strongly pushed the stories, either.

This could be prudence on their part: After all, they can't be perceived as being too eager to begin another war in the Muslim world lest the Pelosi's and George Gervin's Afros of the world do all they can to disabuse everyone of such a view.

But this latest event may take that crisis-control-by-keeping-quiet tool out of Bush's toolbox. And, perhaps he thinks he finally has the predicate he needs to take action. CNN didn't just get this story out of dogged investigation, after all.

Of course, some will "question the timing," a recurring theme on all things that tend to support the U. S. actions against global terrorism, but, there's also this:

Afghan officials admit Iran is arming the Taliban to the teeth.

This seems like a Case for War being made.

If not "war" in the sense of full-blown invasion -- which I think is politically and, likely militarily, impossible -- then definitely a full naval blockade and likely airstrikes.

No rebuilding. No Colin Powell "You break it, you bought it." Bull . We're breaking it because it's killing our soldiers. They can do the rebuilding themselves; it may not be the Iranian people's fault their government is killing us, but it sure the ain't our fault either, and we're not required to commit to pacifying and rebuilding the country simply because we act out of self-defense against an enemy making incessant war on us.

A case could be made that the organic rebuilding of the country -- by Iranians themselves -- will be bloody and difficult, but likely less bloody and difficult than with the hated American Infidel attempting to bring peace.

Destroy the state. Reduce it to chaos. It is a ticking time bomb, and it's time for a controlled demolition. "Render it safe."

Let's Roll!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yet another facet of the war on terrorism.

TOP LEBANESE HEZBOLLAH BOMB-MAKER CAPTURED IN IRAQ

He then proceeds to confess he was sent by Iranian Quds Forces -- establishing a direct link to Iran -- and that he played a "crucial role" in the execution of 5 U. S. Soldiers in January.

Can the inevitable be avoided any longer?

I think Presidents have a lot of control over making crises into non-crises -- they just don't talk about them. They pretend they're not happening. They patrol carefully for leaks to keep the public from finding out there are serious threats to America ... which they'd rather not deal with right now, but were the public appraised of them, they might be forced to.

The Bush Administration hasn't exactly frozen news about Iran's complicity in Iraq out of the press -- officials have indeed mentioned it from time to time -- but they've really not strongly pushed the stories, either.

This could be prudence on their part: After all, they can't be perceived as being too eager to begin another war in the Muslim world lest the Pelosi's and George Gervin's Afros of the world do all they can to disabuse everyone of such a view.

But this latest event may take that crisis-control-by-keeping-quiet tool out of Bush's toolbox. And, perhaps he thinks he finally has the predicate he needs to take action. CNN didn't just get this story out of dogged investigation, after all.

Of course, some will "question the timing," a recurring theme on all things that tend to support the U. S. actions against global terrorism, but, there's also this:

Afghan officials admit Iran is arming the Taliban to the teeth.

This seems like a Case for War being made.

If not "war" in the sense of full-blown invasion -- which I think is politically and, likely militarily, impossible -- then definitely a full naval blockade and likely airstrikes.

No rebuilding. No Colin Powell "You break it, you bought it." Bull . We're breaking it because it's killing our soldiers. They can do the rebuilding themselves; it may not be the Iranian people's fault their government is killing us, but it sure the ain't our fault either, and we're not required to commit to pacifying and rebuilding the country simply because we act out of self-defense against an enemy making incessant war on us.

A case could be made that the organic rebuilding of the country -- by Iranians themselves -- will be bloody and difficult, but likely less bloody and difficult than with the hated American Infidel attempting to bring peace.

Destroy the state. Reduce it to chaos. It is a ticking time bomb, and it's time for a controlled demolition. "Render it safe."

Let's Roll!

This could be prudence on their part: After all, they can't be perceived as being too eager to begin another war in the Muslim world lest the Pelosi's and George Gervin's Afros of the world do all they can to disabuse everyone of such a view.

Well they have done such a masterul job in winning the peace in post war Iraq so why would anyone question this administration in starting another war? Yoni trusts the govt (only in the case of fighting terrorism and not securing the border etc.) so what the war is fun!!

[Yonivore]

Well they have done such a masterul job in winning the peace in post war Iraq so why would anyone question this administration in starting another war? Yoni trusts the govt (only in the case of fighting terrorism and not securing the border etc.) so what the war is fun!!

So, let's hear your solution for Iran.

[George Gervin's Afro]

So, let's hear your solution for Iran.

Well considering it seems to to be well known that upwards of 70% of the Iranian population is pro-USA. The majorty of young people in Iran want to enhance a more pro-western at ude when it comes to the USA and the rest of the world. Your solutiion of bombing them back into the stone age doesn't seem to be the brightest idea taking into account the affection of the Iranian youth towards our country..

[Yonivore]

Well considering it seems to to be well known that upwards of 70% of the Iranian population is pro-USA. The majorty of young people in Iran want to ehance a more pro-western stance when it comes to the USA and the rest of the world. Your solutiion of bombing them back into the stone age doesn't seem to be the brightest idea taking into account the affection of the Iranian youth towards our country..

Well, that upwards of 70% had better get off their asses and reign in an out of control regime. Time is running short.

I think it's funny you have yet to even acknowledge that it may be precisely because of Iranian support of al Qaeda and other insurgent groups, in Iraq, that we've had such trouble to begin with.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well, that upwards of 70% had better get off their asses and reign in an out of control regime. Time is running short.

I think it's funny you have yet to even acknowledge that it may be precisely because of Iranian support of al Qaeda and other insurgent groups, in Iraq, that we've had such trouble to begin with.

Well if Iran was the biggest bad guy in that region then WHY IN THE DID WE INVADE IRAQ?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Well, that upwards of 70% had better get off their asses and reign in an out of control regime. Time is running short.

I think it's funny you have yet to even acknowledge that it may be precisely because of Iranian support of al Qaeda and other insurgent groups, in Iraq, that we've had such trouble to begin with.

What I find hilarious is that you fail to acknowledge that Iran is in Iraq because we are there. Iran was held in check by the guy we overthrew. So now we have destablized the region and you still blame everyone else but the guys who started this fiasco..

[Yonivore]

Well if Iran was the biggest bad guy in that region then WHY IN THE DID WE INVADE IRAQ?

Again, I refer you to the AUMF in Iraq.

But, speculating, it could also be that Afghanistan and Iraq both share a border with Iran and, it will be easier to deal with Iran with established footholds in those two countries.

Call me crazy, but it may be a military strategy.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Again, I refer you to the AUMF in Iraq.

But, speculating, it could also be that Afghanistan and Iraq both share a border with Iran and, it will be easier to deal with Iran with established footholds in those two countries.

Call me crazy, but it may be a military strategy.

Call me crazy but it ain't working...the iraq liberation exp or containing Iran but hey it's military stategy

[Yonivore]

What I find hilarious is that you fail to acknowledge that Iran is in Iraq because we are there.

Yeah, and they'd be anywhere we were militarily, that's the problem.

Iran was held in check by the guy we overthrew. So now we have destablized the region and you still blame everyone else but the guys who started this fiasco..

Well, that's productive reasoning related to current events. But, as for history, I think you can blame Jimmy Carter for that fiasco.

[Yonivore]

Call me crazy but it ain't working...the iraq liberation exp or containing Iran but hey it's military stategy

It's not working the way you'd like it to but, it's not over.

Maybe if the left would quit parroting the message of the enemy (or vice versa -- I really don't know who began the defeatist harping first), we could work together in defeating them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and then, Iran.

[Yonivore]

The British are Pissed Off!

[George Gervin's Afro]

The British are Pissed Off!

I think that's a great idea Yoni. You should go out and burn the koran on camera!! Go for it!!..be sure to leave your name and address for anyone to contact you.

[PixelPusher]

It's not working the way you'd like it to but, it's not over.

Maybe if the left would quit parroting the message of the enemy (or vice versa -- I really don't know who began the defeatist harping first), we could work together in defeating them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and then, Iran.

Such is the magical thinking of the warmongers...If only everyone would here would wave their little american flags harder and say only nice things about the Bush Administration, all our problems will go away!