Should Ginobili start this season?

[Medvedenko]

Manu should or shouldn't.....he's a bench player that finishes the game....he doesn't have the stamina nor game to be a starter day in and day out. He's better against second tier players and adds energy against their second string. That's it people....is it about balance....maybe, but there's a reason the great Pop plays him off the bench....

[MI21]

I think he gets more credit and adulation coming off the bench. It shouldn't hurt his ego or what not, everybody does nothing but credit him for his team approach about coming off the bench, and so they should, not every player of his caliber would do that. He plays the same amount of minutes, is more involved in the offense as #1 option and he finishes the games.

Also, him off the bench means Finley is a valuable player. 2 players playing upto there ability > 1 player playing upto his ability.

[meta2007]

You don't know Manu is a starter in ARG national team and in Italy's Kinder Bologna? Manu is also the MVPs for 2004 olympics and 2001, 2002 Euroleague.

Manu should or shouldn't.....he's a bench player that finishes the game....he doesn't have the stamina nor game to be a starter day in and day out. He's better against second tier players and adds energy against their second string. That's it people....is it about balance....maybe, but there's a reason the great Pop plays him off the bench....

[Solid D]

Manu should or shouldn't.....he's a bench player that finishes the game....he doesn't have the stamina nor game to be a starter day in and day out. He's better against second tier players and adds energy against their second string. That's it people....is it about balance....maybe, but there's a reason the great Pop plays him off the bench....

Uh, no. Run along now.

[ginobili fan]

I want Manu to win 6th man of the year.
I want Tim to win RS MVP.
I want Tony to win F MVP.
And the Spurs Repeat.

[Slomo]

I ...
And the Spurs Repeat.

Frankly, that's all I really care about.

[smeagol]

spurs repeat if they keep bringing manu off the bench

There is no conclusive evidence

[Reggie Miller]

Manu doesn't hurt Tony's production, nor anyone else's production when they are on the floor with him. Manu ends games with TP and Timmy because that is the best group to win with.

When Pop brings Manu off the bench in the 1st quarter or 3rd quarter, it's strictly to bring a creator off the bench because the Spurs are lacking creators. His minutes need governing, whether a starter or not, and his minutes will be the same whether starter or not. Unless the Spurs are comfortably ahead in the last 5 minutes of games, Manu will always close-out games and that is a fact.

You missed my point. I don't blame you, because I wasn't clear. Ginobili is the only player that can do this without hurting his production. I didn't mean that TP doesn't get his shots when he is on the floor with Ginobili. I meant that TP couldn't serve in the same role as Ginobili. Admittedly, no one has ever suggested he do so to my knowledge.

What Ginobili does is comparable to the top pinch-hitters in baseball. It takes a lot of experience and mental toughness to take over a game when you're coming in cold as ice.

I still think that by governing his minutes this way, Pop is recognizing the basic reality of the situation. One ball. Three stars. As you mention, this guarantees a creator on the floor at all times, rather than alternating between two and none.

Technically, possessions are not a zero-sum game, but in most cases, if player X takes a shot, then player Y isn't taking a shot. (It isn't a zero-sum game becuase of steals, offensive rebounding, etc.) The Spurs are a lot better than most teams at taking advantage of opportunities or creating them. This means that having the Spurs' Big 3 on the court isn't a complete waste of resources.

In contrast, the Celtics would be very foolish to put their Big 3 on the floor at the same time for a number of reasons. Their biggest problem is that Pierce and Allen have similar offensive games, while the Spurs' Big 3 actually have offensive games that compliment each other. (More importantly, they have been playing together for four years.)

[Man In Black]

You missed my point. I don't blame you, because I wasn't clear. Ginobili is the only player that can do this without hurting his production. I didn't mean that TP doesn't get his shots when he is on the floor with Ginobili. I meant that TP couldn't serve in the same role as Ginobili. Admittedly, no one has ever suggested he do so to my knowledge.

What Ginobili does is comparable to the top pinch-hitters in baseball. It takes a lot of experience and mental toughness to take over a game when you're coming in cold as ice.

I still think that by governing his minutes this way, Pop is recognizing the basic reality of the situation. One ball. Three stars. As you mention, this guarantees a creator on the floor at all times, rather than alternating between two and none.

Technically, possessions are not a zero-sum game, but in most cases, if player X takes a shot, then player Y isn't taking a shot. (It isn't a zero-sum game becuase of steals, offensive rebounding, etc.) The Spurs are a lot better than most teams at taking advantage of opportunities or creating them. This means that having the Spurs' Big 3 on the court isn't a complete waste of resources.

In contrast, the Celtics would be very foolish to put their Big 3 on the floor at the same time for a number of reasons. Their biggest problem is that Pierce and Allen have similar offensive games, while the Spurs' Big 3 actually have offensive games that compliment each other. (More importantly, they have been playing together for four years.)

AGREED!
Also, Boston's big 3 might work if Pierce plays a decidedly more mid-range and in game. Leave the 3's to Allen, and they have KG play pinch-post and in, especially when inside play is warranted. To me KG has deferred way too much to his fadeaway unlike Tim who finds a way to move towards the basket.

[urunobili]

Manu will start... and then move back to the bench... i would say that those switches will be more handled in team at ude from the rest of the guys...

[Obstructed_View]

but there's a reason the great Pop plays him off the bench....

[Solid D]

Thanks for clarifying Reggie, and I think that is a valid point with good support for it.

[Reggie Miller]

Thanks for clarifying Reggie, and I think that is a valid point with good support for it.

Thanks.

This is sort of off-topic, but one thing has always puzzled me. Every team says they are going to do what the Spurs actually do, which is assign and assume roles for the good of the team. Not having the access that many of you have, I really don't understand who is responsible for this. Is it really a group leadership effort, as the team maintains? (That is, do Popovich, P.J., TD, Ginobili, et. al. all have important leadership roles?) Do you think it is more Pop and his military background? Is Duncan secretly a relentless tyrant? (Just kidding.)

At any rate, Ginobili's at ude impresses me as much as his game, maybe even more.

[SpursWillOwn]

Ginobili acts as the 6th man thru the season too.. when the Spurs are feeling stagnant Ginobili moves to the bench and provides the SPARK. the SPARK each game and each season. i'd like him off the bench but mid-season

[yavozerb]

Udoka is going to help out Manu on the 2nd team very much cause now he can D the opposing best player on the court..This should save a little of Manu's energy on the offensive end. 2nd team is going to be JV-Manu-Udoka-Horry-Elson (not to bad on both ends of the court)...

[ALVAREZ6]

Manu should start center

[Scola Trade]

Had we not traded Scola, now he could be that 6th Man coming off the bench to provide scoring and Ginobili could shift back safely to the starting line up. I'm telling you guys we're going to regret it

[rob5]

I want him to come off the bench, if only to further insult the vicarious honor of Argentinian posters.

that sounds racist

[ChumpDumper]

that sounds racist

It's countryist.

[freemeat]

I think this would make a GREAT VBookie!

-- Will Manu start the season?

A good follow-up question, in case he does, would be

-- In what month will Manu start coming off the bench?

[rob5]

It's countryist.

whatever u wanna call it. it still offends a lot of people. bet u wouldn't say the same about africans

[Extra Stout]

whatever u wanna call it. it still offends a lot of people. bet u wouldn't say the same about africans

Argentina can stand up for itself. Mostly.

[ChumpDumper]

whatever u wanna call it. it still offends a lot of people. bet u wouldn't say the same about africans

Africa is not a country, so I wouldn't say that about them. I did mean to offend certain Argentinians.

[rob5]

Africa is not a country, so I wouldn't say that about them. I did mean to offend certain Argentinians.

well..pick an african country..u still wouldn't say it in fear of offending black americans. But its ok to offend hispanic americans?

[TMTTRIO]

One side of me thinks he should start and deserves to start but on the other hand it's worked out pretty well so far so I guess I would continue it. One thing that I was thinking about the other day though is Manu really struggled coming off the bench during the playoffs this year when Tim and Tony were off the court but he still came up clutch in some of the games so we'll see. Speaking of Manu coming off the bench, the Jazz were asking should AK come off the bench

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6995563?source=rss
Ask the expert: Should AK come off the bench?
By Steve Luhm
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 09/25/2007 02:44:52 PM MDT
Posted: 1:53 PM- Question:
Would it be more beneficial for my favorite Jazz player -- Andrei Kirilenko -- to come off the bench? He would be the leader and primary weapon of the second team. He would obviously demand more minutes than the typical "second-stringier" but, in a Manu Ginobili-type of way, he would be able to take over games, get his shots and strengthen our bench by a huge amount. He would be the go-to guy in a lineup that would also include Hart/Price, Brewer/Almond, Collins/Fesenko and Millsap. Would Andrei mind doing something like that? I mean, he would be a shoe-in for the Sixth Man Award.
-- Cody, Salt Lake
Answer:
Bringing Kirilenko off the bench is an interesting idea, though I'm not sure he would be crazy about it, even if he continued getting 20-30 minutes a night.
I'm also convinced that if Kirilenko embraced his current jack-of-all-trades role on a team that includes outstanding scorers Deron Williams, Carlos Boozer and Memo Okur, he could be a huge factor as a six- or eight-point per game starter because of the variety of skills he possesses.
Scoring points does not necessarily translate into value to a team. Ask Mark Eaton. Or even John Stockton. I am convinced Stockton could have averaged 25 points a game, but it wasn't necessary for the Jazz to be successful.
Scoring points in relation to value to the team is something Kirilenko needs to understand for him to thrive in Utah -- at least while Williams, Boozer and Okur are his teammates and they stay healthy.