Reply With Quote
This article is right on the money. Does anyone have this guys email address? Props to him.
That may be one of the reasons Avery was so beloved, because he suceeded Vinny Del Black as the Spurs PG. Sure he was an upgrade over Vinny, but , I would have been an upgrade over Vinny so that aint saying much.
This article is right on the money. Does anyone have this guys email address? Props to him.
I said the same thing yesterday about how important Mario Ellie was to the first le. I am not saying Mario Ellie should have his jersey raised here in SA. I just don't get why Avery's jersey will be raised here. A great floor leader and smart player with a lot of heart, but to me he doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired here. Just my opinion. I loved Avery when he was here, but don't think the Spurs should do this.
Avery deserves to have his Jersy retired not just because of his average career stats which are mediocre to say the least but for his outstanding leadership on and off the court. For his professionalism and his at ude. He had a great persona about him that help define the team, especially during the spurs first championship season. He is a symbol that, you may not have the greatest talent, or you may not be the fastest or the biggest guy on the court. But If you work hard enough and give it your all, then you can do anything. And thats what he did. He had the biggest heart of any of the spurs players in history. He is an insperation.
No... he also mentions all-star berths or whether or not the player led the league in some statistical category. While leadership qualities may not have been considered in his 'equation'. He still makes some valid points.
Fact of the matter is, Avery was one of the reasons why Robinson never won a le before Duncan's arrival. The fact that Houston could sag off of Johnson and Del Negro to double and triple-team David led to the Spurs demise in that ill-fated series vs Houston and for that matter the one vs Utah. Think of it this way... Avery's inability to hit jumpers on a consistent basis indirectly lead to the tarnishing of Robinson's legacy. Which leads me to....
timvp... not to start a quarrel with you or anything... as I usually agree with most of your takes. But if Robinson isn't saying anything negative about this issue it is because it is not in his nature to do so. Robinson is all smiles, and encouragement - he would never stoop to the point of criticizing his teammates even if they deserved it - especially not now in his retirement era. The only time I can remember him criticizing someone was Rodman, and it was only after Robinson was badgered by some reporter who was baiting him into making more news (i.e. stirring the pot).
And ES, and p'nr, and extatic, and . . .
its pretty bad when you have to resort to a bandwagon fallacy to try and justify it.
Other than sentimental horse there is no justification for his number being retired.
You probably thought Johnson 'earned' that $7 million contract in 2000.
Tim Duncan better have 20 banners up there because he is the main reason we have les.
That's still too simplistic.No... he also mentions all-star berths or whether or not the player led the league in some statistical category.
I would honestly have a problem with Avery's honor if jersey retirements were some kind of HOF mirror, but they are not always. 66 players around the NBA have had their jerseys retired despite not being in the HOF, not including Avery - and I'm not counting MJ, DRob, Ewing, any of those not-yet-eligible HOFers. Those guys would make the total 75.
Could you total up those, short of the ones who died while still playing in the NBA, never garnered a single NBA award like all-star birth first, second team NBA offense or defense, sixth man, etc?
I'm actually in the process of doing that right now, and I can already give you some names: Jim Loscutoff and Don Nelson. That's after surveying only two teams.Could you total up those, short of the ones who died while still playing in the NBA, never garnered a single NBA award like all-star birth first, second team NBA offense or defense, sixth man, etc?
Even I am appalled at the AJ hate on here
wow
It's not about hating AJ. It's about whether or not he deserves to be included in the pantheon of Spurs basketball.
I don't hate AJ, but I don't think his number should hang next to 50.
The reason the Spurs didn't win a le before TD rests more on DRob than on anyone else. If DRob had AJ's heart the Spurs wouldn't have had to wait until 1999 for their first le.
If you stick to the players when they didn't give out awards you may have a shot.
Per Wikepidia the peoples' encyclopedia
James Loscutoff
James Loscutoff (born February 4, 1930 in San Francisco, California, United States) was a former professional basketball player for the NBA's Boston Celtics. He attended Grant Tech High School in Oakland, California and later the University of Oregon.
Standing 6'5", Loscutoff was selected with the fourth pick of the first round in the 1955 NBA Draft. In nine seasons from 1955 to 1964, he played forward and won seven championship rings as part of the legendary Celtics teams of the 1960s. He was originally drafted by coach Red Auerbach to provide some much-needed defensive nerve for the Celtics team, which (despite becoming the first side to average 100 points per game in the 1954-55 season) had one of the worst defensive records in the league.
Loscutoff was the Celtics' designated hatchet-man [1], and his mean defense and strength were part of the defensive greatness of the 60s Celtics, alongside fellow Hall-of-Famer Bill Russell.
Loscutoff's nicknames included "Jungle Jim" or "Loscy". His #18 jersey was retired by the Celtics, but reactivated for fellow Celtics great Dave Cowens. It has subsequently been re-retired. In the spaces where the Celtics numbers are retired, Loscutoff's says "Loscy."
Don Nelson
After a very successful high school career at Rock Island High School (IL) Nelson graduated from the University of Iowa in 1962 as a two-time All-American averaging 21.1 points and 10.5 rebounds a game. He was drafted 19th overall by the Chicago Zephyrs of the NBA. He played for the Zephyrs one season, and was sold to the Los Angeles Lakers in 1963. After two years with the Lakers, he was signed by the Boston Celtics.
In his first season with Boston, Nelson averaged 10.2 points and 5.4 rebounds, helping the Celtics to the 1966 NBA le as one of their role players. Four more championships with Boston followed in 1968, 1969, 1974, and 1976. A model of consistency, Nelson would average more than 10 points per game every season between 1968-69 and 1974-75 (before the introduction of the three-point shot). He led the NBA in field-goal percentage in 1974-75. Nelson was coined as one of the best "sixth men" ever to play in the NBA. He was also known for his distinctive one-handed style for shooting free throws. Nelson retired as a player following the 1975-76 season. His number 19 jersey was retired to the Boston Garden rafters in 1978.
Avery Johnson
Upon graduation in 1988 Johnson was not selected in the NBA Draft. After a summer season with the USBL's Palm Beach Stingrays, however, Johnson was signed by the Seattle SuperSonics and managed to spend the next 16 years playing in the NBA, including stints with the Denver Nuggets, Houston Rockets,Golden State Warriors, and Dallas Mavericks. A true journeyman as a player, occasionally being traded, or even waived, mid-season, Johnson is most well-known for his time with the San Antonio Spurs (1991, 1992-1993, 1994-2000), particularly his integral role on the 1999 Spurs team that won the NBA championship against the New York Knicks in which he hit the series-clinching shot in Game 5.
I think that pretty well sums it up but keep on plugging away for the "true journeyman" number 6*.
AJ is given grief for being a point with a career average of 5 assists a night (nevermind that his Spurs' career average was significantly higher and he had 5 seasons of 7+ a night including the 1995-96 season in which he had a 9.6 assist per game average). Well, what's the career average of the Spurs' starting point today? Yep, 5.4 a night.
They already had All-Star games, All-NBA teams, MVPs, Rookie of the Year when Nelson and Loscutoff played.If you stick to the players when they didn't give out awards you may have a shot.
You're out of your ing mind. First you throw Drob and Elliott under the bus and label them chokers then you compare TPs assist average to AJs when we know TP is a shoot first point guard and AJ was a pass first point guard.
Not to mention TP has 3 rings(3>1), won the Finals ing MVP and is 10 times the player that AJ was.
AJ averaged 10 points and 7 assists a night as a San Antonio Spur.
Bruce Bowen has averaged 7 points and 3.2 boards a night as a San Antonio Spur.
But, I know, Bruce is a leader on the team, is respected in the community, and has brass ones.
No, you are. I'm just here to kick you around for 10 minutes.
Because they were big time clutch players prior to TD showing up.
First you throw Drob and Elliott under the bus and label them chokers
So assist totals don't matter unless Avery Johnson is the subject.then you compare TPs assist average to AJs when we know TP is a shoot first point guard and AJ was a pass first point guard.
TP won 3 rings and that MVP riding the coattails. Get real.
Not to mention TP has 3 rings(3>1), won the Finals ing MVP and is 10 times the player that AJ was.
3rd team all-NBA, defensive all-NBA, 6th man. Loscutoff would easily have made some all-defense and Nelson likely 6th man. And I'd say key players in teams that won 5 or 6 les might trump AJ.
You have to be kidding. You're talking about the guy who's been runner up for DPOY the last few years and been on multiple all NBA defensive teams against a guy who DRob had to cover his ass on D and who couldn't break down the defense of a YMCA summer league team, right?
Wow, runner up for DPOY. I know, he's a team leader.
No All-Star appearances. No All-NBA teams.
Unworthy.
=I am going to go ahead and risk Tpark's personal insults as he gives me another lecture on how many jobs I should have before I am worthy to post here @ ST (like 3 jobs are not enough) and say this.... I honestly feel the main reason to retire #6 is due to the fact that the Spurs cannot give another player that number w/o having to deal with all the upset fans.
So they may as well do so and move on. After all what happens if Pop steps down and AJ takes over the Spurs team? How much crow will be eaten here as most of you back pedal and change your hateful comments you have already made?=
You know who the key players were for the Boston Celtics? Chronologically:And I'd say key players in teams that won 5 or 6 les might trump AJ.
Bill Russell
Bob Cousy
Frank Ramsey
Tom Heinsohn
Sam Jones
John Havlicek
Dave Cowens
JoJo White
At best, Nelson was like the 5th best guy on those teams - just like Avery in 1999. Loscutoff wasn't even that.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions