Michael Jordan is a front office genius. He was a pretty decent player too. No doubt he would have demanded a trade to the Bobcats if they existed. It's too bad his les are tainted because they were P.B. (Pre Bobcats).
I actually remember an interview with someone (maybe Kerr) where there was an account of Jordan punching Kerr in the eye during practice due to him playing pretty hard D on Jordan. Im pretty sure it was on ESPN Classic a few years back, anyways Jordan socks Kerr in the eye and apologizes after like a week
He also punched Will Perdue in practice for setting a solid pick on him. He yelled at him and punched him and said "why cant you set a pick like that in a real game?"
That pretty much raps it up.
this thread is stupid. so what if the greatest man to ever play the game busted his teammates balls. they were lucky to have him as a teammate.
Some would use Jordan punching Kerr in the eye as proof he was a bad teammate, I see a guy that is so compe ive that he doesn't even want to loose in practice, and I can't see how that's necessarily a bad thing.
From everything I've ever read about him that was one of the thing he was praised for, he was a fierce compe or, and even drove his teammates to go all out even in practice, some players nowadays don't even want to participate in practice.
Who cares? I'm sure every single one of his teammates weren't complaining once they got those rings. 6 rings is 6 rings. If he wasn't backing up his talk with talent and winning, then it'd be another story.
you answered your own question right there ^
might I remind ppl that 99% of Jordan's teammates were soft and sucked? of course he HAD to get on their balls
Well, I guess the problem with that for some fans would be, well how come when Jordan did it it was compe iveness, but Kobe gets killed for the same exact reason in many fan's eyes?
Jordan was a diva. Period
There are some fans (even some Spurs fans) that criticized KG for punching Ricky Rickert in the throat in a training camp practice a few years ago.
Compe ive fire and working hard to push teammates are not the only factors of being a good teammate. Being selfless on and off the court, mentoring younger players, sticking up for teammates whether it's to the media, to referees, to fans, or to the coaches, gaining respect of teammates by also being understanding to their situations. There are other ways to measure what makes a good teammate.
Punching clearly inferior teammates because they play well against you in practice doesn't strike me as driving your teammates to play better, in practice or in real games.
Calling young teenage teammates " " and crushing their confidence does not strike me as being a good teammate.
Gambling with younger teammates that can't afford the stakes you put down does not strike me as being a good teammate.
Michael Jordan's compe ive fire was absolutely a driving force that led his teams to great success. But, that compe ive fire does not equate to being a good teammate, despite any team accolades or awards.
He was an asshole to most of his teammates. But, there is no doubt that he was one of the greatest if not the greatest basketball player ever.
If it was me, i'd be glad to play with the greatest player of all time, and someone who would be tough and keep me from slacking off, making me a better player.
I'd be sure to thank him for all the rings, too
Elephant in the Room Department:
Just maybe if Jordan wasn't such an asshole and so "compe ive" (including the field of illegal gambling) the Bulls would have won 8-10 in a row. Don't give me that "compe ive" crap. Every elite player wants to win badly; not all of them act like spoiled es.
Jordan 6
Miller 0
I find it almost hilarious how people continue to use the 6 rings to justify Jordan being an ass most of those years, while grilling Kobe Bryant for doing the same thing. How does punching out your teammate in practice because you want to win make your teammate a better player? How does riding your teammate all practice long up to a point where the teammate threatens to break your legs make your teammates better? How does continually making fun of your teammate's game (Kwame Brown) until he has lost all confidence make them better? Name me one single player who got worse statistically with Jordan out of the picture. Pippen became an MVP candidate the two years Jordan was off the course playing baseball, Horace Grant played as well in Orlando as he did with the Bulls, ditto Rodman, even BJ Armstrong got statistically better with Jordan gone. Kukoc succeeded despite having Jordan come back on the team, and suffered no statistical decline in his production with or without Jordan. There was not one single young player who was developed by Jordan.
Yes, 6 rings and all, but that doesn't make him a good teammate, a man CAN win 6 rings by being an absolute jackass because he is just that good.
And while we are at it, Jordan didn't make his teammates better, he make them winners, there is a difference.
You mean, Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Oakley, Woolridge, (a very very old) Gervin, Cartwright, etc .. sucked? Not all of them maybe allstars, but I would take anyone of them on the Spurs at the time they were Jordan's teammates.
at the same time, how did his teammates do once they left the Bulls?
Pippen did okay, but never won a le. His quality of play slipped severely after he left Chicago. He failed miserably in Houston.
Horace Grant went from one of the top PF's in the leauge to a slightly above average "fourth fiddle" in Orlando.
Steve Kerr piggybacked Tim Duncan to another le. Other than that he wasn't anything special.
Toni Kukoc? Yeah.
Every white stiff center they had (Longley, Wennington, Perdue) signed a big ass contract elsewhere and proceeded to fail miserably.
Did BJ Armstrong even exist without Michael Jordan?
Jordan not being a complete and breaking up the Bulls: 8-10
Miller: Still 0 (and maybe doesn't even go to the Finals in 2000).
You never addressed the point. You have a great future in store for you on Around the Horn. Congratulations!
That's all that matters.
Pippen finished 3rd in league MVP voting during Jordan's hiatus.
Grant became 3rd fiddle in Orlando, just as he was with the Bulls. And his last year with the Bulls (without Jordan), he had his best statistical season.
Kerr was never an integral part of any of the teams he was on. He averaged about the same with the Bulls with and without Jordan.
Kukoc had his best statistical season in 99, the year Jordan retired (and he was oft injured).
Armstrong also had his best statistical season in 94 and 95.
I am not going to post the stats of all the players during their last year with Jordan and the year they played immediately afterwards, but it shows that all of them had similar (or better) production without Jordan. Just look up basketball-reference.com
And I already said Jordan got them the 6 les, no Jordan = no les, I can say that much, but that does not make Jordan's teammates better players NOR does that make Jordan a good teammate. These things are totally separate issues.
Last edited by ambchang; 10-23-2007 at 11:14 AM.
And who said Jordan was a good teammate? Hasn't everybody agreed that the guy could be an arrogant ass? But ask any of those former teammates if they'd go through the entire Jordan experience again, and they'd all say yes without a doubt. They'd all play alongside Jordan in a heartbeat.
Jordan was neither angel nor devil. He's not the great teammate Tim Duncan is, but he was definitely a better teammate that Kobe has been.
Yeah, and people were grilling me about revisionist history, when people brilliantly pointed out that the 6 rings is all that matters in evaluating how good a teammate Jordan was. Hey, winner makes the rules, not that this is particularly unique or anything.
Shaq
Penny
Nick Anderson
he was a fourth fiddle at best in Orlando, he might even be fifth, because Dennis Scott was around too.
The fact is, aside from Pippen, it it wasn't for Jordan, we wouldn't even remember or care who those guys are.
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