Reply With Quote
Jordan>you
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jq6avQRL37Y
He wasn't, read the Jordan Rules (a bit controversial and written by a hack like Sam Smith, but note that interviews with teammates since have confirmed that Jordan was indeed a jerk).
If he never won 6 les, he would be considered ballhog extraordinaire and a cancer. But of course he did, and winners write the history books where is fire was pure of any exterior motives and he was only concerned of winning. BUt people forgot his famous response to the question whether he would want to win or have individual brilliance, he responded by saying that he would want his team to win because of his individual brilliance.
There is also my favourite: "There is no I in team, but there is in win"
Or the time he termed his teammates the supporting casts. That term has since been used regularly by the media, but it does indeed allow people to peek into the psyche of this great basketball player.
Last edited by ambchang; 10-20-2007 at 07:54 AM.
Jordan>you
I have, and read The Jordan rules. When he wanted to, he could be a great teammate. When he didn't want to, he was a . But the fact is, when he started playing good team ball, they went on a run and won 6 les.
And everyone knew that he cared about his own personal accomplishments. But he cared more about winning. If you really read the book, you would have seen that he hated losing more than anything in life, whether it was basketball, golf, pingpong, pool, etc... if he really didn't care that much about winning, then I strongly doubt he would have gotten so emotional and broke down crying when he finally won that first championship. If he didn't care that much about winning, he would not be considered the most clutch player in NBA history.
No. More like...
Steaming pile of kangaroo > Ambchang.
Don't even put their names in the same sentence. That is an insult to humankind.
I never said that Jordan didn't care about winning (nor did I ever mention me>Jordan), but revisionist history is putting him as this perfect teammate who would go out of his way to make his teammates better. He wasn't.
He was a jerk to the purest sense in which he continuously denegrate teammates. Was his motivation winning? I would guess so, I don't know because I am not him, nor did I ever meet him, but there has been continuous evidence that Jordan was not well liked by teammates.
BTW, nice job throwing personal insults in a civil discussion, I never thought raising a discussion over one of the greatest basketball player of all time could hit this close to heart for you. I can only guess as to what your issue is.
And you just owned yourself.
His behavior towards his teammates is well do ented. But you'll find that the large majority of his teammates still love & respect Jordan to this day. Why? Because everything Jordan did was because of his fierce compe ive nature, and they respect that.
Kobe, on the other hand, has been all about self-promotion. That's why his teammates have hated him. His at ude appears to have changed some in the past year or so, so we'll see what happens with Kobe.
If a jerk gets his team to six championships, people love him.
If a jerk can't get his team out of the first round, and they actually play better as a team when he's not there, then there's a problem.
One of my favorite Jordan anecdotes is when Joe Klein rode the bench for the Bulls, but was on the roster and therefore got his first ring. So, Klein, overjoyed, is weeping with happiness when Jordan sees him, and asks, "What the are you crying for? You should be thanking me!"
Haven't been able to confirm, but that's a great story.
Does a large majority of his teammates respect him? I would say probably, he won them 6 rings, but does they all love him? I am not so sure, ask Cartwright, Grant, Kerr, Hopson, Sellers and such, they may not say anything publicly, because an average NBAer publicly deriding the greatest player of all time is basically instant career suicide.
Beside, I am not saying Kobe is a great teammate, I don't think he is, but Jordan isn't that much better. The only difference is Jordan won 6 rings as the main man, and Kobe won none as the main man, and revisionist history somehow manages to put Jordan as a great teammate, when he simply wasn't.
Bad teammates dont win 6 rings as the man
I don't know what your hidden agenda is, but you sound like a fool
I have never read anywhere or heard anyone, his teammates, sportswriters, fans, coaches say that Michael Jordan was a great teammate.
To whom is this thread directed?
This isn't exactly breaking news. It's pretty well known we wasn't a great teammate, just ask Steve Kerr
Jordan got in teammates faces, and could be an ass at times, but it was always out of compe ive nature, and to get his teammates fired up.
Looks like it got results 6 times.
the only person making revisionist history is you. everyone knows that Michael was a tyrant at times, not even Bill Swersky's Super Fans will deny that. who has said anything otherwise?
Probably to find a way to say that Tim Duncan is the greatest player ever.
Well ... see above replies.
No, Magic Johnson, Kareem Abdul- Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Jordan, Bird are the top six for me. Duncan is probably somewhere in the "2nd tier" greatest of all time lot along with Hakeem, Dr. J, Moses Malone, Shaq, etc ....
which one says Jordan was the perfect teammate? because i found these -
Perhaps I read wrong, but there are many times that was said in this board that Jordan was a jerk not because of his own motives, but of pure intentions of winning basketball games. That was not true, it was Phil Jackson who convinced him to sacrifice his own game for the benefit of the team later on in his career.
And Larry Bird was a jerk too, he won 3 rings. People seem to be saying the ends justifies the means, and I am arguing otherwise, that just because Jordan won 6 rings doesn't mean that he was a great teammate, he just happens to be a great basketball player who can still win 6 rings despite (or because of) him being a jerk.
I believe Jordan was completely motivated by winning. He was absolutely a jerk and maybe the most arrogant basketball player ever, but I definitely believe it was due to his compe ive fire. Granted, I doubt he would have ever played second fiddle to anybody, but there was never going to be someone who would unseat him as top dog on his team.
Jordan was definitely not the greatest teammate, but I think he still commanded respect from them, because they knew he was doing whatever it took to win. And there's plenty of accounts that off the court, Jordan was a pretty decent guy to be around.
Being a great teammate off the court is different from being a great teammate on the court. There was a period when he clearly was playing selfishly, but how could you blame him either? He averaged like 35 PPG on 50% shooting, and his team wasn't very good. But when he started playing like a good teammate on the court (and when his teammates started stepping it up, not faking migranes because they were scared as , or throwing the ball out of bounds every time they touched the ball, which is something you obviously had forgotten from reading The Jordan Rules as well, that his teammates always choked under pressure as well), they won 6 les.
As long as people acknowledged that Jordan was a jerk, then I am fine. The part I didn't understand is how people are grilling Kobe for being exactly what Jordan was early on in his career, while praising Jordan for his compe ive fire.
If anything Kobe was similar to Jordan, it was his complete disregard of people around him for the sake of winning. The difference is that he isn't as good as Jordan was, and he doesn't have the teammates or the structure that Jordan had.
And no, I am not saying Kobe >= Jordan, that is simply stupid, but that Jordan was about as big a jerk as Kobe is now back in the day.
Well, he is a jerk that won 5 MVPs, 1 DPOY, 6 rings, and 2 gold medals. So whats the deal? Kobe only won 3 rings with Shaq, but hasn't done anything else.
IMO, Kobe is actually more talented and gifted than Jordan. He is more athletic, and has better shooting range. But his mentality is what holds him back the most. Even though Jordan was selfish, he would pick and choose his spots when he was selfish. More often than not, he would play selfishly at good times, and still win games. Kobe plays selfishly at bad times, and loses games because of that.
Big difference between Jordan & Kobe - Jordan would never purposely tank a Game 7 just to prove a point about how crappy his teammates are.
Kobe still has time to mature, and last year there were times where it looked like he had taken some steps, but he still has a way to go.
You're gonna have a stroke with Kobe and Dirk on the same team.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
