Death of the Traditional Center?

[telecomguy]

Thanks. I still don't feel like I have adequately explained the death of the low post game, though. That really confuses me, but all of the three point shooting is probably part of the equation. (By this I mean that nothing would prevent a 6'9" PF from developing a low post game if he wanted to do so.)

I think one of the major reason is that the league (Stern) in it's "wisdom" decided that NBA had to have more flash, more driving, more perimeter play (so by definition more highlight plays from guys like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, Parker, etc.) to market the game as an OFFENSIVE game. Stern realized that if NBA was going to become more popular, it couldn't have teams pounding the ball into the middle/paint and have 75-74 scores. So they ins uted bunch of rules (3 second rule in the paint, no hand-checking in the perimeter, let the Bigs pound each other in the paint without calling fouls, etc.) that FAVORED the flashy perimeter players at the expense of the traditional Bigs/Centers who played in the paint.

I have seen Duncan get hacked, pounded, pushed, his jersey being yanked (by Kurt Thomas), held, hooked, tripped, gouged, kneed.....with NO FOULS being called in the past few years. If you even touch a perimeter player little too hard as he is whipping by you, fouls were called constantly.

So obviously given those kind of advantages, it made perfect sense for the game to evolve towards perimeter play since it was so tough to score in the paint when the Bigs were getting pummelled with no calls being made.

Apparently this year, Stern listened to the coaches and has instructed the referee to allow more physical play in the perimeter and LESS physical play in the paint. How that will play itself out as far as re-emergence of post players will be interesting (that;s if there is any post-up players left other than Duncan).

In any case, if the referees are going to call more fouls against the Bigs hammering the other Bigs, then this bodes well for TD who should get more fouls called. I noticed that in his preseason games TD is going to the line lot more per minute (and making them!!) so he could have a great year scoring wise if the refs continue to call fouls more aggressively in the paint.

[Reggie Miller]

I think one of the major reason is that the league (Stern) in it's "wisdom" decided that NBA had to have more flash, more driving, more perimeter play (so by definition more highlight plays from guys like Kobe, Wade, Iverson, Parker, etc.) to market the game as an OFFENSIVE game. Stern realized that if NBA was going to become more popular, it couldn't have teams pounding the ball into the middle/paint and have 75-74 scores. So they ins uted bunch of rules (3 second rule in the paint, no hand-checking in the perimeter, let the Bigs pound each other in the paint without calling fouls, etc.) that FAVORED the flashy perimeter players at the expense of the traditional Bigs/Centers who played in the paint.

I have seen Duncan get hacked, pounded, pushed, his jersey being yanked (by Kurt Thomas), held, hooked, tripped, gouged, kneed.....with NO FOULS being called in the past few years. If you even touch a perimeter player little too hard as he is whipping by you, fouls were called constantly.

So obviously given those kind of advantages, it made perfect sense for the game to evolve towards perimeter play since it was so tough to score in the paint when the Bigs were getting pummelled with no calls being made.

Apparently this year, Stern listened to the coaches and has instructed the referee to allow more physical play in the perimeter and LESS physical play in the paint. How that will play itself out as far as re-emergence of post players will be interesting (that;s if there is any post-up players left other than Duncan).

In any case, if the referees are going to call more fouls against the Bigs hammering the other Bigs, then this bodes well for TD who should get more fouls called. I noticed that in his preseason games TD is going to the line lot more per minute (and making them!!) so he could have a great year scoring wise if the refs continue to call fouls more aggressively in the paint.

Good points from all. Another one we almost forgot...

...people used to get knocked the @#$% out for dunking in the NBA. (The "hotdog" would get suckerpunched or knocked down on his next trip up the floor.) Now that it is socially acceptable, there is another high percentage option available over posting up that really didn't exist for several decades.

[SRJ]

For me, the "death" of the traditional center has more to do with the expansion of player skills.

The traditional post-up center would establish a position close to the basket and wait on the entry pass. Why? Well, have you seen footage of the old big men trying to dribble? You give the ball to Wilt Chamberlain, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Kareem etc. in the high post facing the basket, you weren't going to get a dribble move from those players in those spots. They couldn't do that - or at least do it well compared to today's bigs. Garnett can use the dribble, so can Duncan. Gasol and Nowitzki also. Robinson and Hakeem could also. Parish could not, neither could McHale. Even your high post centers (Willis Reed, Alvan Adams, Jack Sikma, Dan Issel) weren't good at using the dribble; the difference was that their spot was 15-17 feet away, rather than down on the block.

If I saw two tall guys playing basketball, one of whom played almost exclusively near the basket and the other able to play further out on the floor, I would call the first guy a center and the second guy a forward.

[peskypesky]

I have seen Duncan get hacked, pounded, pushed, his jersey being yanked (by Kurt Thomas), held, hooked, tripped, gouged, kneed.....with NO FOULS being called in the past few years. If you even touch a perimeter player little too hard as he is whipping by you, fouls were called constantly.

The best analysis yet, IMO.

[Brutalis]

Q: This article is how many years late?

[Russ]

It's not just rule changes regarding what types of fouls get called. The legalization of zone D by the NBA is also a big factor.

The more players that can sag into the middle, the harder it is for a center to score. (Defensive 3 seconds mitigates this a bit, but zones are pretty much legal in the NBA.) It seems that big men just can't hold the ball down low as much as they used to.

Really, the NBA created the age of the center with its unique (no zone) rules -- from that we got Russell, Chamberlain, Lanier, Thurmond, Jabbar, etc. Those guys dominated in the NBA even more than they had in college. Now NBA rules are more like college and those days are probably gone forever.