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Why do Suns fans judge this trade so harshly? Is it because Kidd was shipped out due to his being radioactive after beating up his wife?
My understanding is that sometime shortly after he arrived, the Mavs got beaten down pretty badly at home to San Antonio, and he threw up his hands and said "That's it! Enough with this !" The next day, the entire starting five went to New Jersey.
Why do Suns fans judge this trade so harshly? Is it because Kidd was shipped out due to his being radioactive after beating up his wife?
the biggest lesson the suns learned was to get the rest of the bench involved because you never know what might happend a starter might get hurt or amare's dumbass might forget he can't leave the close proximity of the bench(has anyone found out where the bench ends) and get himself suspened.By bringing steve kerr in as their GM that gives D'antoni the time to develop the rest of his bench and he doesn't have to worry about dealing with front office stuff
LMAO at FinDog calling the Spurs and Mavs 1a and 1b.
He's also an idiot for saying that no starter should play more than 35 minutes a game...after all, thats the Spurs blueprint and it worked for the Mavs too....
OH WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd be much more worried about the Mavs just making it out of the first round if I were you, FinDog.
I'm sorry, I think you might be lost and in need of directions. Troll thread here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80047
Serious discussion here.
Is that what you call it? It looks like the same unoriginal crap you've been saying all summer.
I'd agree with Ron, as well... Failing to mention offseason surgery on a key shooter's shooting elbow is a pretty glaring oversight. Whether or not it had a huge effect on his offense vs. the Spurs, it certainly had an effect. To just completely fail to mention it was pretty piss poor.
Peripheral to the discussion at hand, why did you hate the Kidd for Finley swap so much? I think Kidd has by far had the better career, although at his peak Finley was an All Star by the skin of his teeth.
Finley was my second-favorite player on the Suns behind Kevin Johnson. So, just trading him was something I hated. On top of that, I thought we overpaid for Kidd, who had yet to win anything, or even lead a team to the playoffs at the time. He never lived up to billing with the Suns. Despite his teams winning 50-games year in, year out, he never led a Suns team to a playoff series win. In fact, the only series the Suns won in Kidd's tenure was with him injured and with a fresh out of retirement KJ leading the squad in 2000.
But beyond all that, I think it disheartened me as it signaled that the Suns saw the end of KJ's career. They now had that "real" replacement for him. Not a wet-behind-the-ears youngin' like Nash, or a capable but oft-disgruntled Cassell, but a real talent. I hated to think that KJ would be on his way out. I'm telling you, KJ was IT for me. When you haven't a le you really cling to the quality players that have passed through your team to justify all the time and energy spent to cheer for them. I'd watched KJ since his rookie season and as a 14/15 year old, I just hated to think I was watching his final games.
That, coupled with the actual basketball reasons were more than enough for me to hate the trade. They were stripping my Suns iden y in one fell swoop. Ousting my past and present (KJ) and my future (Finley)...
I don't think Jason Kidd was revered like his is now until he got to New Jersey, anyways.
I seem to remember public opinion being that he was a very smart player who couldn't shoot for and had off-court issues. Once he got to New Jersey, that's when he got the superstar status.
During his time in Dallas the locals considered him Green-Eyed Jesus. I liked having him, but I always thought he was overrated during his time here.
You're 100% right. He was never considered a top-10 player until he turned Jersey around. And even that wasn't entirely him as he joined a team that was getting a healthy Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles back from injury from the year prior and had added Jefferson and Collins via the draft. It was like they received four starters and a good sub in one offseason. Kidd was the catalyst, but by no means the only reason.
And before anyone turns the same logic around on the 04-05 Suns and Nash, I've already argued that point.
I certainly understand how you feel. Reggie was the only thing that made the near-success tolerable. Losing ALL of your good players in less than two seasons is really unbearable. (Statistically, O'Neal is now just a little above average. How much of that is wanting out of Indy I couldn't say.)
I loved the trade - Finley wasn't a consistent shooter at the time and Kidd came in and dominated the Grizzlies in his first game as a Sun. I was angrier that Colangelo had morals and liked to keep character guys so he jettisoned Kidd for Marbury (this was pre Starbury's intern sex and insane period).
I was just referencing how you and mono have gone back and forth on this Kidd trade and the dismantling of the three J's, etc.
I judge the Kurt Thomas trade worse, but that's more of Sarver being cheap than having anything to do with character. At least Colangelo got an All-Star PG for Kidd and not a trade exception.
Did anyone notice that the Suns were the only team to have 3 players receive votes for "Who is the toughest player in the NBA?" in the NBA.com GM survey? ;-)
http://www.nba.com/preview2007/gmsurvey_misc.html
Obviously they don't mean mentally tough...
I think that the Suns should be the favorite for the number one seed. The Shawn Marion trade demands is an overblown issue. It's not as if Shawn's ing is a new thing, we've been here before with him, and it just seems like one of those problems that the media overhypes constantly, only for it to have no bearing on the season. I'd be shocked if we didn't win sixty games this season, because our only key loss was a guy who really didn't have an impact during the regular season. Really the only thing that's going to derail our season is a serious injury to Steve Nash.
Playoffs are an entirely different story. I think that we have a pretty favorable matchup with Dallas (because they can't exploit our biggest weakness), but we match up like with San Antonio (something new and different eh?). So I think that the regular season will be crucial if we can somehow hope for Dallas to knock SA out before the conference finals. Utah, Denver, and Houston are quality clubs, but I don't see either posing much of a threat to any of the big three.
Grant Hill was a really big addition, especially after losing Kurt. Not only is he a great lockerroom guy, but he managed to put together a decent season last year, and if he can manage 65 games this year, I'll be happy. His passing is going to help alot in the half court, and his ability to get to the free throw line is a skill that this team, outside of Amare, is totally lacking. Not to thrilled about him expanding his shooting range, we've got shooting up the yin yang as it is.
Marcus Banks is another guy who could contribute this year. D'Antoni absolutely ed him last year by refusing to give him any consistent time and really screwing with his development. He's been getting alot of minutes at the two thus far, and it looks like we're just going to abandon him as the point guard/floor general. Personally I really like this decision. Grant Hill and Boris Diaw give us enough distributors to keep the flow up while Nash is out, and we can take advantage of Bank's slashing ability as well as his defense. The guy can definitely contribute.
I'm not expecting Marks to play much. He'll probably this year's Pat Burke, and I expect to see Brian Skinner getting most of the minutes as our backup big man. Skinner ain't much, but as long as he gets the most out of his three fouls, he's done his job.
I think that Steve, Amare, and Raja are all mentally tough. The only mentally soft guys that we have are Diaw and Trix.
I don't think anyone but Steve is tough. Still even he lost his cool and responded hothdeadedly after Horry's foul. Amare whined, Bell whined... Those who are mentally tough don't allow others to dictate. They dictate. Physically each can, but other than Steve, I wouldn't say anyone of the three are mentally tough. Not to the extent where they'd deserve mention in a vote of the mentally toughest players.
what was that kobe clothesline in 06? is that mentally tough?
I think that we have different definitions of being "mentally tough". IMO it means having winning as your first priority, and being somebody who doesn't back down from a challenge or wilt under pressure. Bill Laimbeer, widely considered one of the toughest NBA players ever, whined constantly.
In the words of Raja himself, he "ain't nobodies ho".
You're on the money with Laimbeer.
Well, I would still argue that Raja is still more mentally tough than Kobe (Mr. "It was Adultry, not Rape... why is everyone in Philly booing me during the All-Star game? Trade Me, Don't Trade me, Trade Shaq, Trade for Jason Kidd, why do you hate me Dr. Buss?")
Being a Mavs fan, I really don't see mental toughness displayed all too often. But I'd say Steve & Raja are the only two mentally tough guys I see on the Suns. Perhaps Grant Hill also brings some mental toughness to the fold as well as veteran savvy.
Seeing how there's the word "mental" in mentally tough, meaning some sort of brain function, Amare is out of the discussion.
Amare strikes me as one of those guys who's ridiculously sized ego won't tolerate him doing bad. Call it mentally tough or whatever, but he does show up when it counts.*
*Except for when he can't show up because he's a dumb mother er. But you take the good with the bad.
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