Reply With Quote
An "Argentinean" is a legit synonym for an "Argentine"
ESPN's list from before the draft. Where do you think he stands? From Jeff Merron, http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...condroundpicksHe may be the greatest draft day steal in modern NBA history. Fifty-six players were selected ahead of Manu Ginobili on June 30, 1999
Everybody loves a bargain, a hidden gem. So while most of the speculation about Thursday's NBA draft revolves around Shaun Livingston, Dwight Howard, Emeka Okafor, Siberian giant Pavel Podkolzine and the other big names on the draft marquee, we're going to look the other way -- toward the increasingly important second-round picks. Who's going to be this year's Nick Van Exel or Michael Redd? We don't know. But we're pretty good at forecasting the past. So we give you the best second-round (or third-round, in a couple of cases here) picks in the past 25 years -- the ESPN Era, in other words.
10. Cedric Ceballos (1990, Phoenix)
He may be best known for the blindfolded "hocus-pocus" jam that won the 1992 slam dunk contest. But Ceballos, despite an injury-riddled career (he played only 609 games in 11 seasons), proved an excellent selection for the Suns -- especially considering that the 6-foot-7 forward was the 48th selection overall.
Ceballos, who'd been traded to the Lakers in 1994, was named to the All-Star Game in 1995 (he didn't play due to injury), and led the league in field-goal percentage in 1992-93. His career averages of 14.3 points and 5.3 rebounds don't reflect what he could do when he was able to put in the minutes. In three straight seasons beginning in 1993-94 with Phoenix and then with the Lakers, he averaged 30-plus minutes, 20.8 points, and 7.1 rebounds.
9. Jerome Kersey (1984, Portland)
Kersey was picked 46th overall by the Blazers. He was a 6-foot-7 forward who starred at Division II Longwood College, and he played for 11 seasons in Portland before bouncing around the league for another six on the downside of his career. He excelled in the Blazers' fast-break offense, enjoying a great six-season span starting in 1986-87, when he averaged 15.4 points and 7.6 rebounds a game. He also made it to two NBA Finals as a Blazer, before picking up a ring while with the Spurs in 1999.
8. Michael Redd (2000, Milwaukee)
Redd, a 6-foot-6 guard drafted by the Bucks out of Ohio State, just keeps getting better. After appearing in only six games in his first season, he emerged as a scorer, averaging 11.4 points per game coming off the bench in 2001-02, and then 15.1 points per game the next season, again mostly as a reserve. This past season, Redd started every game, averaging 21.7 points (10th in the NBA) and 5 rebounds, and played in the All-Star Game.
7. Cutino Mobley (1998, Houston)
The Rockets took Mobley, a guard out of Rhode Island, with the 41st pick overall in 1998, and found their current co-captain. During his six seasons, he's averaged 17.1 points per game. Over the past three years, he's averaged more than 40 minutes per game.
6. Jeff Hornacek (1986, Phoenix)
Hornacek was the ultimate underrated player. The 6-foot-3 guard was a walk-on at Iowa State, and didn't go until late (46th overall) in the second round even after becoming an All-conference player. In 1992, he made the All-Star team, then turned into one of the league's best free-throw and three-point shooters. In 14 seasons, he averaged 14.5 points and 4.9 assists per game playing for the Suns, the Sixers, and -- for the last six years of his career -- the Jazz, where he teamed with John Stockton in one of the NBA's best backcourts.
5. Mark Price (1986, Dallas)
The Mavs were smart: With the first selection in the second round in '86, they drafted Price, a three-time All-American at Georgia Tech and the only freshman to lead the ACC in scoring. Then they got dumb fast, trading the 6-foot guard straight off to the Cavs. He went on to average 15 points and 6.7 assists over his 12-year career, making the All-NBA first team in 1993. Three times, Price led the NBA in free-throw-shooting percentage; and he is the league's all-time leading free-throw shooter, with a percentage of 90.7.
4. Nick Van Exel (1993, Lakers)
Van Exel, a 6-foot-1 guard out of Cincinnati. was good right out of the gate, making the 1993-94 All-Rookie second-team by averaging 13.6 points and 5.8 assists. Since then, he's solidified his position as one of the best passers in the league, and also one of the best three-point shooters -- he's now fifth on the all-time list in total treys. In 11 seasons, he's averaged 15.3 points, 3.0 rebounds and 7.1 assists playing for Los Angeles, Denver, Dallas and, most recently, Golden State. Van Exel made the 1997-98 All-Star team.
3. Dennis Rodman (1986, Detroit)
Rodman was the Small College Player of the Year at Southeast Oklahoma State, and the 27th selection overall. When the Pistons picked him, head coach Chuck Daly called him "the quickest 6-8 guard I've ever seen." He won five rings -- two with the Pistons and three with the Bulls -- and was a two-time Defensive Player of the Year (1990 and 1991), a two-time All-Star, a two-time All-NBA Third Team choice (1992 and 1995), and a seven-time All-Defensive First Team selection (1989, 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996). Rodman played for 13 years and averaged 13.1 rebounds per game.
2. Drazen Petrovic (1986, Portland, third round)
Petrovic was a European superstar who once scored 112 points in a Croatian League game and led Yugoslavia to a silver medal in the 1988 Olympics before he reached the NBA. The 6-foot-5 guard was traded to the Nets after his first season; he played four seasons in the NBA, averaging 15.4 points per game. Petrovic died at the age of 28 in a car crash after enjoying his best year: He averaged 22.3 points per game and made the All-NBA third team in 1992-93. A great three-point shooter who converted almost 44 percent of his shots from behind the arc, Petrovic was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame in 2002.
1. Bill Laimbeer (1979, Cleveland, third round)
The bruiser was such a low priority for the Cavs that by the time they got around to offering him a contract in August, 1979, he had already agreed to play in Italy. After a year in Europe, he played two so-so seasons with the Cavs before they dealt him to Detroit, where he became one of the best centers in the NBA. Despite his reputation as a thug, his effectiveness is indisputable -- he led the NBA in rebounds twice, was a four-time All-Star and, most important, helped lead the Pistons to consecutive les in 1989 and 1990. In 14 seasons, Laimbeer averaged 12.9 points and 9.7 rebounds per game.
Also receiving votes:
Rashard Lewis (1998, Seattle)
Gilbert Arenas (2001, Golden State)
Eric Snow (1995, Milwaukee)
Kevin Duckworth (1986, San Antonio)
Antonio Davis (1990, Indiana)
An "Argentinean" is a legit synonym for an "Argentine"
Didn't the Suns have Marion all of last year and they ended up with the last place record in their division...???
sorry, but thats just plain dumb. A lot of good players play on teams that are bad for one reason or another...Cleveland was awful last year but that doesn't necessarily mean that LeBron James sucks...Didn't the Suns have Marion all of last year and they ended up with the last place record in their division...???
Kori do you remember a simillar thread on the old forum (before we re-signed Ginobili)
I had placed some stats that showed Marion was a volume shooter and obtained his points by averaging more shot attempts than even Duncan.
His numbers wouldn't hold up in the Spurs system.
In fact if you sent Ginobili to the Suns, he would be posting very similar numbers to what Marion is currently doing there.
And for those of you that say that Nash has had no influence on his stats... well I need not say what I was going to say.
Yeah but the Suns also had Amare, Joe Johnson and for some of the year... Stephon.
Nash is the real reason why the Suns are doing so much better this year.
It's not because Marion is a franchise player....
OH...and BTW had McInnis not been hurt last year the Cavs would have made some noise in the playoffs.... nullyfying your quote on the basis of comparison.
Amare and Nash are equally responsible for the teams turnaround.
Marion is also to a lesser degree a huge reason for their success.
Again, comparing Marion a SF/PF hybrid to a playmaking off guard is not really the idea here.
Marion is the better player right now and might always be by at least a small margin. But I don't think Marion is better than Manu by as much their discrepency in statistical production.
They are both different players, and Marion is a better SF relative to the rest of the NBA, than Manu is at SG relative to the rest of the NBA at that position.
Both are nice complimentary pieces. Neither is going to lead a team to a championship as the best player. And Marion might not even be the second best player on a championship team should he ever win one. But who knows what he would do alongside Duncan?
Kind of a weird comparison.
Last edited by Nikos; 12-28-2004 at 05:33 PM.
I agree with almost everything you said except for the part I have bolded....
Manu did lead his team to a championship as that team's best player.
Ironically the guy we are comparing him to was on one of the teams that he beat in order to attain the championship.
I obviously meant an NBA championship.
It's actually Argentine or Argentinean. Look in the dictionary.Argentinean?????? its Argentine. DUMB ASS WRITERS....how do these guys get these jobs?
but ...
"how do these guys get these jobs?"
... is still a valid question!
True.
STFU dense .
Game was played for a gold medal...Guess who lost?
Stop making excuses, they are for losers.
Manu was the focal point of the team USA defense and owned their ass.
Marion, unlike Duncan, did get to play in the game and he was a non factor in winning or losing, inspite of statistical excellence, as he has been most of his career...
Don't get all high and mighty with me just because Pop smartened up and figured out we were losing more with Barry and Horry not playing in big games...I didn't have to lose 3 games to figure it out...unlike you...who like now, did nothing but make excuses for stupidity.
Meanwhile...your refusal to look beyond stats is exactly what leads you to conclusions like...Hedo>Manu.
Manu is an impact player of major caliber...Marion is a stat machine who racks up impressive stats with seemingly no impact on team W-L.
Marion played for one of the worst teams in the NBA last season...he is only as good as his PG, despite what his stats say....this trend holds true in the NBA as well as international play.
But go ahead...keep making excuses for Manu winning and Marion losing...be ing dense, I really don't give a . I suppose the world needs dense people too..
Brutal
Also, if marion would be traded for manu, his numbers will fall. You can't compare these players because if marion played for the spurs, he wouldn't take the same amount of shots
It can be said either way, so whos the dumdass?
About this article, you know who is gonig to play in similarly for the Spurs, Beno.
Beno was another steal, the Spurs are good at recruiting great foreign players who aren't recognized.
Jameer Nelson,and other PG's were taken before Beno, but Beno is showing he is a steal.
You're the one making excuses for Duncan, loser. Duncan lost.Game was played for a gold medal...Guess who lost?
Stop making excuses, they are for losers.
Couldn't even stay in the game.
Sad really.
So in the realm of international ball and Olympics, Scola > Duncan.
It's true.
So what?
This isn't the Olympics, Shane Heal proved that.
This isn't international ball.
Antoine Rigadeau proved that.
So sad, you were lapped in my first two posts, scroll back and read them again...as your point was debunked then before you even got around to making it.
Unless you can point me to a season where Duncan was in the lottery your analogy sucks almost as badly as you do.
You made an excuse for Duncan.
You lapped yourself.
Quit making excuses, hypocrite.
And your point about the lottery makes zero since -- you aren't comparing Marion and Duncan.
Do you need to have your arguments explained to you again?
Please direct me to the excuse I made for Duncan? In international play? Duncan lost. Manu beat him, and Pop, and Larry Brown, and AI, and Matrix and LeBron and Starbury...
And my point about comparing Duncan to Marion makes more sense than your comparison of Scola to Duncan. You're the one that came up with a ed in the head dense comparison lacking in insight and knowledge of the subtle differences of the players mention... and tried to make it analougous to my good comparison...
Marion: has done squat to impact W-L on his own...as an impact player, in international ball and the NBA.
That separates him from both Manu and Duncan.
With Scola. Idiot.Please direct me to the excuse I made for Duncan? In international play? Duncan lost. Manu beat him, and Pop, and Larry Brown, and AI, and Matrix and LeBron and Starbury...You beautifully illustrated my point that it was international ball, which leads to the big so what?And my point about comparing Duncan to Marion makes more sense than your comparison of Scola to Duncan.Get back to me when Manu plays in the NBA without Duncan or in the Olympics without Scola, then all your bases will be covered, m'kay?Marion: has done squat to impact W-L on his own...as an impact player, in international ball and the NBA.
Dumbass, what has Marion done in the NBA or international ball on par with what Manu has done in international ball or what Duncan has done in the NBA?
Marion draws a zero in both as far as winning goes...Does Manu? Does Duncan?
And stick Scola up your ass...he wasn't on Manu's team when Manu was winning MVP's over there...
And Manu did a of a lot better without Duncan and Parker last season than Matrix did or has done without a PG..
Just STFU until you get it and stop punishing me because you don't.
Again, get back to me when Manu wins the Olympics without Scola and the NBA championship without Duncan.Marion draws a zero in both as far as winning goes...Does Manu? Does Duncan?
You act like switching Marion and Manu on last year's Suns guaranteed a ring for them.
Nash is kicks the out of us and the NBA the Canadians do in international play. Again, so what? Acting like they are the same thing is stupid.
I expect nothing less from you.
And the Euroleague?
Get back to me when Marion has done it with or without someone...or shut the up...you have absolutely nothing to back you up.
See, here's how it works...Duncan - has NBA les as the best player on his team.
Manu has international les as the best player on his team...not to mention an NBA le...
Marion has? The lottery.
You sucking him off...now shut the up because you have nothing to prove Marion can carry a team....anywhere.
No I don't, you're just stupid.You act like switching Marion and Manu on last year's Suns guaranteed a ring for them.
I'm not acting like they are the same thing...you're just stupid.Nash is kicks the out of us and the NBA the Canadians do in international play. Again, so what? Acting like they are the same thing is stupid.
What is the sound of one being stupid?I expect nothing less from you.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
