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All of you in other threads saying Marion is unbelievable I reiterate would rather have the verve and skills of Manu!!
MadDoc
Spurring Success in San Antonio
Manu Ginobili’s Free-Wheeling Style Has the Spurs on the Move
By John Hareas
He may be the greatest draft day steal in modern NBA history. Fifty-six players were selected ahead of Manu Ginobili on June 30, 1999 and in a little more than two seasons, the 27-year-old Argentinean has not only made a lot of NBA General Managers regret their decision but he has emerged as one of the NBA’s premier players while making a run at his first NBA All-Star appearance. Think the Spurs predicted such greatness? Think again.
“The draft came along and it was in the 50's [late in the second round],” said San Antonio Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich. “And there was nobody who was going to make our team there anyway, and this guy was the most athletic, so we said, 'Let’s draft him.’ But we did not know he was going to become what he is today. That would have been a real stretch.”
What isn’t a stretch is Ginobili’s value to the Spurs, especially this season. After filling a valuable reserve role in his first two campaigns, Ginobili is now starting for San Antonio, serving as the team’s secondary scoring threat alongside two-time NBA MVP Tim Duncan. Ginobili is enjoying career numbers in points, field goal percentage, three-point percentage, assists and rebounds and playing with the same frenetic, fast-paced style that continues to befuddle opponents, coaches and, yes, even amaze his teammates.
“A very different game,” said Brent Barry. “He is so awkward and just takes bizarre steps. Nothing seemingly fundamental...but it works. He is so effective.”
Even Ginobili can’t pinpoint the loosey-goosey style of play that has been instrumental in the Spurs' recent success, including their march to the NBA championship over the New Jersey Nets in the 2003 NBA Finals.
“Oh, I have no clue,” Ginobili said. “I always played kind of like this, crazy and unpredictable. But it turned more like this while I was 18, 19. Before then I wasn’t like this. When I was 19, I was worse than this. My coaches, they used to get so upset. Sometimes happy, but sometimes so upset. I don’t know, but it comes from somewhere. It is probably how I feel the game.”
Ginobili’s road to NBA success was far from traditional. After being selected by the Spurs in 1999, the 6-6 guard played three more seasons in the Italian League where he earned league MVP honors twice and in one season, led Virtus Bologna to the championship and Euroleague Finals where he also picked up MVP honors. In 2002, Ginobili helped his native country, Argentina, to the silver medal in the World Championship.
In a career full of honors and accolades, perhaps the greatest was when Ginobili, who averaged 19.3 points and shot .576 from the field, led Argentina to a gold medal victory in the 2004 Summer Games in Athens.
“Winning an NBA championship is the biggest thing that can happen professionally,” Ginobili said. “But representing your country with more than 30 million people cheering for you and then seeing you up there on top of the podium … it’s hard to find any words [for] that.”
http://www.nba.com/fedex/eng/ginobili.html
All of you in other threads saying Marion is unbelievable I reiterate would rather have the verve and skills of Manu!!
MadDoc
You beat me to it.
Manu or Marion?
The choice is easy. Manu.
Manu is a great scorer, defender, rebounder, passer and best of all he is a winner.
In the 4th qtr of the ORL loss, I saw Pop looking at nearby Manu with the ball and making a gesture which I read as "go crazy". It felt like Pop was saying, somewhat desperately since nothing else was working, to Manu "do whatever Crazy Manu does to rescue this screwed up game w'ere losing and closeout with a win". Pop didn't seem to be holding any leash on Manu. But Manu couldn't get any game-changing action going. There will be other chances, and different results. Crazy Manu is a winner, and Scola feels like one, too.
You've got to be ing kidding me. I often enjoy reading threads here and responding but when I see blatant bias it just disgusts me...
I would trade Manu for Shawn in an instant. The guy averages about 20 and 12, not only that but he averages slightly more steals than Manu and more blocks than Rasho. The guy is a very good free throw and field goal shooter and an acceptable three point shooter, especially considering the blocks he gives you at his size.
I really really like Manu...
That being said, Matrix is a much better all around player and a lot more consistent...
on a team that consistently scores 5 deep in double figures and where he is the 2/3 option his season averages are:
20.2ppg
11.5 rebounds
2.3apg
1.9stls
2 blocks
+ higher fg%, higher ft%, and fewer turnovers than Manu...
take your homer glasses off guys...
I'm just glad the Spurs ended up drafting him and not passing on him.
I like Manu a lot also, and I am a Spurs fan but I'm not a re ....
My game is kinda like Manu's ... NOT!! I wish it were though!!
I have a hard time with the "would you trade Manu for Marion" arguement.
They each bring such different qualities to the table. Marion is an athletic scorer, who definitely fills up the stat sheet. I'd say it's pretty clear that individually, he's a better player than Manu.
I just think that Manu is a better team player, clearly a better passer, and just fits better with the Spurs. It's hard for me to say that I wouldn't trade Manu for Marion, but I just don't think I could do it. Not just from a personal standpoint, but as a basketball decision...Manu just does so many things to create wins, where as Marion is a spectacular talent, but I'm not convinced of his ability to play winning basketball without someone (like a Steve Nash) to make him a better player. Manu is the guy who makes other players better.
Still, Marion is one of my favorite players, especially at the 3, in the league. I'd lose serious sleep deciding whether to make this move.
In the end, however, I think I'd have to stick by my boy Manu. Primarily because I think we're seeing Marion play at his best right now. I don't think we've seen Manu play his best ball yet. I don't think we've seen anything yet.
It is a tough decision...Statistically Marion is one of the elite players in the NBA, right there with Garnett and Duncan...and Marion just might be the most versatile player in the NBA...You can see Marion's excellence, his athleticism, everything...you can see it in the stat sheet...
What you can also see in the stat sheet is all his statistical excellence being rendered meaningless on teams without a good PG...you can just look at the team W-L from last season, and even from the seasons he was with Marbury.
What Manu has just doesn't show up in the stat columns as much as it does when you watch him play...
But correct me if I'm wrong...
Didn't Manu just give Marion an asswhuppin in the Olympics? I thought so...I know, I know, Manu had the better team
One is a franchise player, the other isn't, stats be damned....I'll leave it up to you guys to figure out which of them is which...
I wouldn't go so far as to say Manu is a better passer, he does average more assists but he also averages more turnovers.
In the end for me Marion just brings too much that the Spurs could always use more of, rebounding, shot blocking, defense, and points....
Marion has been blowing the doors off stat wise since long before Nash came into the picture...and he fills his stats up across the board with no weaknesses...I am not saying that there is a direct correlation between "real" basketball and "fantasy" basketball but anyone that plays fantasy basketball knows that he is a stat stud...he is so consistent and balanced that he is currently ranked #1 in the NBA for the year and the last month by Yahoo...by comparison Manu is ranked #41 for the year and #64 over the last month...Marion is a spectacular talent, but I'm not convinced of his ability to play winning basketball without someone (like a Steve Nash) to make him a better player.
CC,
Again, I agree...there's no question SM fills up the stat sheet. I just think Manu does more to make the players around him better. I don't see as much of that in Shawn.
In fantasy basketball Marion is a virtual one man team...and CC is right, it's been true for quite a few years now...if you have Marion you will have a contender.
Unfortunately for the Suns, it doesn't translate to real basketball...
Shawn Marion is, in effect, Robert Horry on steroids....An accessory...not the main item.
Manu is the main item...he's just not used that way on the Spurs most of the time. On the Spurs he is used more as an accessory...which in a way is a credit to Manu more than a negative about him...It's a rare talent to be able to be both types of player.
If there is one thing Manu does better than Marion its passing. There is no question Manu is the better passer than Marion. Just because a player avoids turnovers does not mean they are a better passer than another player who has a worse ratio, but creates a lot more plays for others and racks up assists.I wouldn't go so far as to say Manu is a better passer, he does average more assists but he also averages more turnovers.
Scola > DuncanDidn't Manu just give Marion an asswhuppin in the Olympics? I thought so.
I await Ghost's chiming with some east coast article saying the Spurs could've traded Greg Sutton for Marion some years ago.
is marion worth the max though?
if he was getting paid less I might want him more as a spur
I wanted him early but the more manu improves makes me not want him as much
Why make excuses?
First of all, in your desire to minimalize Manu, or attack my comparison, you fail to notice a major negative I pointed out on Marion's resume, a negative not shared by Duncan, that clearly shows why Marion was singled out and Duncan wasn't...Making your snide Scola, Duncan analogy flawed...
Duncan can carry a team...there is absolutely nothing to indicate Marion can...and if he could carry one he certainly had ample opportunity to prove it last season.
Hence the designation of Marion as an accessory.
Manu knocked off a team of, more or less, elite NBA players, who were coached by a couple of NBA champion coaches...
Stop making excuses for it...it was still basketball, it was a talented team, and Manu, not Puerto Rico, not Italy, not Lithuania, was the reason team USA settled for the Bronze....Team USA only lost one big game in those Olympics...and it was to Manu's team.
One game, both sides knew the stakes and the rules...and Manu had the inferior team from a talent perspective...he won.
Stop the arrogance towards international ball...that type of arrogance was why we lost.
We lost, Duncan, Pop, Brown, and Marion..lost, and Manu and his team, beat them...
Manu, not Scola, was the centerpiece of that team, he was the engine that made it go...
Just because you can't see what Manu does, in stats, doesn't mean he isn't doing it...he impacts a game in a major way, one that defies statistical analysis most of the time.
My Choice is Easy
http://www.athens2004.com/en/BasketB...=BKM400202_C73
5 GINOBILI Emanuel David
Minutes 32:43
FG 9/13 69%
2FG 5/7 71%
3FG 4/6 67%
FT 7/8 88%
OR 0
DR 3
TR 3
AS 3
TO 4
Steals 1
PF 3
Fouls on 8
Points 29
11 MARION Shawn
Minutes 28:03
FG 4/10 40%
2FG 3/8 38%
3FG 1/2 50%
OR 2
DR 3
TR 5
AS 1
ST 3
PF 2
Points 9
uh, waly, hate to break it to you, but if that's your criteria...
Sanchez had a better game than Dwayne Wade.
Is that a trade you're prepared to make?
I'm only attacking your comparison based on Olympic play, which is pretty stupid, not Manu. Stick to your other resume crap.First of all, in your desire to minimalize Manu, or attack my comparison, you fail to notice a major negative I pointed out on Marion's resume, a negative not shared by Duncan, that clearly shows why Marion was singled out and Duncan wasn't...Making your snide Scola, Duncan analogy flawed...
Case in point.
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