the free throws I will give you but everything else is wayyy off. The Spurs don't rely on jump shooting as much as other teams but they have guys who can hit them. The Spurs are also often guilty of too much passing if anything.Silly me, i thought it included being able to hit jump shots, free throws, and lots of passing along with playing defense.
but back to the original topic. I still think Wade will be the best PG in 2 years but Parker can be top 5.
I don't think I saw anyone mention Hinrich in there.
He wont be the best in two years...but he will be up there.
He is pretty damn good.
He also had a 30 pt game tonight...only 3 assists...but he usually is much better with his assists.
He will be one of the best in a few years...right behind tony I hope.
One of the great things about the Spurs is....Parker does not have to be the best PG in the league for the Spurs to win the le.
1) Anyone who says numbers are not important is lying or biased. Of course, numbers don't tell the whole story, but you can't say they are not 3/4 of evaluating fairly the import of a player.
2. I brought up the important detail about "being the franchise player", which is not about stats but about being able to be CONSISTENTLY enough of a threat to demand the focus of the defense, and still enable your team to win. Tony is not that, not yet. Those guys I named ahead of him today ARE.
3. I agreed that Tony will be ahead of just about everyone not named Wade if he maintains his current progress, though Arneas deserves mention, and you never know about Tinsley or Arroyo's improvement as well. Pass first vs. score first, its hard to evaluate.
4. Now, if someone wanted to say Parker is the best slashing/driving pg in the league, I would say hands down yes. His defense is getting better, which I regard highly. But he is average at assists, rebounding and jump shooting, and poor at ft's. He is great in the transition game, but average at working the offense in the half court.
Lets ignore the numbers, and just go with a well-rounded assessment of Parker then. With his current skill set he is top 10 for sure, and when hitting his jumper he is top 5. Even so, he is not great at getting to the line or converting when he gets there. His diversity of offense is not good enough to prevent (decent defensive) teams from adjusting to him and shutting him down (see Lakers in playoffs). If he improves that changes, but as he is now, he is lightning in a bottle some games, and good enough most of the time, but not top 5.
4.Last but not least, BLOW ME. You are acting like you have earned some kind of respect to be able to try to dismiss me (or anyone for that matter) here. I'm not feeling you re: that.
SAMikeyP, of course Tony Parker does not have to be the best point guard, or even a Top 5 point guard (which is isn't even close to, right now), in order for the Spurs to win a le.
Neither did Derek Fisher, Ron Harper, John Paxon, Kenny Smith, and Chauncy Billups.
But that doesn't change the fact that Tony Parker is at best, inconsisten in nature. And the very same things that people are saying in this thread (only 2 more years, everyone!), are the same things that people were saying 2 years AGO about Tony Parker.
Food for thought.
I am not doubting that, nor did I say anything to the contrary. My statement was that in two years Parker...CAN...be a top 5 point guard.
Really there arent 5 people right now PLAYING that are playing better than he is.
Nash
Marbury
Iverson
Francis
Parker
Those are your top 5 points in the league right now in that order.
Keep in mind though, Baron Davis isn't playing and J Kidd is playing like crap returning from his injury.
Actually Davis is playing but coming back from injury.
I'm not even gonna read all that bs. To tell you the truth, from what I can see so far, starting every sentence of your worthless and stupid paragraphs, your repeating the same crap. Example? To be a Franchise player you dont have to have numbers? Last time I checked... that is how you get popularity and that's how you get to be an allstar..
Now since all of that was the topic, I'll laugh at the fact that you said "blow me, you can't tell me im the ".... in short words... you arent the , and you're practically immature, and lifeless. Especially if you want a reputation on the internet. Also, I know I'm new, but I could care less if you feel special here, you SHOULD blow me.
Grow up. V
Tony Parker needs to be consistent night in and night out. He can't drop 20+ in one game and then 9 in another. That is not allstar status. That is one of his problems. Is he one of the best, probably, but in Pop's system, he isn't going to get the shots every game.
And don't forget Hot Doggin Manu needs his shots too.
Ease up on the cheese bro. Welcome to the forum, we are here because of one thing.........
The Spurs.
I agree... with the last thing you said,but remember I didnt start...
and going back to the topic, I would rather have another championship than having parker as an allstar.
We all want championships, however championship teams are not built with one point guard.
Parker needs some help, and I personally am not sold on a Rookie Slovenian to do anything. Especially carrying a purse.
what a news! sequspur trying to be the peace maker
this is a crazy world!
Tp doesnt have systems to score 30 per night... it's much easier for AI, Francis or marbury to score, thier teammates are praying that they score cause they are not able to creat a collective game... TP is not consistent yet ( 12-17 every games, that's not so bad either..) but he improved. But pop doesnt ask him to score 25 per night... he will never do....
NASH is a new all star.. look at his stats, he waited 5 years to have the stats of Tp and played in offensive teams... if say to tony to play how he feels, if think he wil run much more and score more....
FRANCIS, never played in a good team, score 16 for 6 assit last season...
KIDD.... who is less consistent in shooting that kidd?? but he's still the best passer...
WADE will be impressive for sure....
ARENAS also but, it's easier to have shoot in washington... much easier...
all the marbury, baron davis, ....the same...and as Cassel, they will be to old
Lebron will be huge.... i consider him more as a forward.
So let's say that of course Tp will not be the best in 2 seasons but he will be in top 5 for sure.... especially cause he will play regularly the finals cause he prefered to stay in san antonio better that having more millions and play in washington or golden state or any little team..
general people remember all stars but spurs fan wil remember players who offer them a championship ring... and tony can help a lot for this.... and he will
Offcourse, he had only 6 ast, 2 st, 1 bs, 2 reb in 17 min. He,s a crap
Actually someone has already said something like that...well actually, someone said Parker was the second best slash and kick PG in the NBA(behind only Nash)...you might have heard of the guy who said it...he goes by the name of Magic...so that's a very good point you made...
I think you under-rate Parker's D...in fact he might already be the best man on man defensive PG in the NBA...he might be the best defensive PG in the NBA period...Kidd has never been that great of a man on man defender and I don't think he's much of a defender period anymore.
You make a good point on FT shooting...that is one inexcusable weakness in Parker's game...and Parker would probably be a 17-18 PPG scorer if he was a better FT shooter...
On his rebounds...he's a PG, it's great if a PG can board...but if it is a necessity for your PG to board you probably aren't going to be winning many NBA les(unless he's 6'9 and goes about 240)...
As a team the Spurs are one of the best boarding teams in the NBA.
They are the #3 rebounding PCT team in the NBA, there's not that many free boards for a little guy to get...especially on a team with the leagues second best rebounder.
Assists?
Spurs are the 8th best passing team in the NBA...the team with the NBA leading assist man...Phoenix, averages only .6 more APG than the Spurs...
Our passing is excellent, our rebounding is excellent...
Parker's D and most of his O is great...he needs to work on FT shooting and needs to find his 3 point shot again...
Then he'll be the best PG in the West and the second best in the NBA...I don't think Parker is ever going to be better than Wade...Wade's just a rare talent at the position....but Parker's got a long career ahead of him as an elite PG.
Its possible wade ends up playing at 2, also theres no way parker is the best defender at pg in the league yet.
He could be he has the quicks to stay in front of his man however he still doesn't have the stregnth to guard the bigger guards, he has made drastic inmprovements in this area and is definately the most improved defender at the pg position.
"still doesn't have the stregnth to guard the bigger guards"
How does strength help stay in front of your man? Marbury's got the over-built bod, is he the best defeding PG?
Which PG is the best defender because of his muscles?
Who is better? Don't say Kidd...
I agree that some people are underrating Tony's D. He's definitely kicked it up a notch this season. Bruce Bowen said tonight that he often talks to Tony about becoming as good on D as he is on O and how that will make him one of the best PG's in the league. Tony said in the lockerroom that he really enjoys the defensive challenge of facing guys like Nash, etc. now. After Nash's 12 first quarter points, he was completely shut down.
Blah, blah, blah . . .
Tonight in this thread was actually the first time I have considered Parker might just be the best defender at that postion in the NBA...
I mean I just can't think of anyone who is better on the ball than he is...I have been trying to come up with someone...I can't think of anyone that's been the stopper that Parker has been at the PG position...
Parker has owned, AI, Cassell, Nash, Marbury, Payton, can't remember how he did against Bibby...
True we have a great defensive scheme but...that never stopped AI before...even before Drob got old it didn't stop him.
Raja Bell maybe?
I'd say Speedy, maybe, but Parker whipped Speedy's ass.
I don't rate Kidd up there this season...I wouldn't rate him as a top on the ball defender anyway.
When I think about it...I just don't think there is any one playing better D at the PG spot this season than Parker...
I am open to suggestions because it is possible I am overlooking some guys..but if there is a better defender at the PG spot...it's not Jason Kidd or anyone that will be attending the AS game...
He is not your prototypical PG who thinks pass first, shoot second, which is fine, as long as he is hitting his shot. It a nuts , what makes TP a great PG is his ability to make his opponent play D for the whole game. He is wearing the opposing PG out each game. If you look at the numbers, the guy that is guarding him is getting tired and loses his effectiveness as the game goes on lately. TP is playing the best strecth of games in his career the last few weeks, and if he continues, the Spurs will be very very tough to beat.
Wade isn't a point guard. he is playing his natural position now (2 guard)
This is the essence of your take. Since then, people came out with actual ANALYSIS, which was entertaining, thought-provoking, and fun to read. Consider doing that instead of the main point of your taking being to shut up.
Being a Franchise Player is more than just getting shots. It is getting shots, having a defense focus on stopping you, and then still having that team win. Stephen Jackson was the leading scorer on the Hawks last year, and scored 20 ppg doing it, but his team didn't win very much, did it? I think many players could get 20+ a game, but not if they wanted to win. As players get more shots, teams try to focus the attention of the whole defense on them, and their percentages will drop. You need a player who is a great scorer to be able to get 20, even with a defense focused on them, without being a very innefficient scorer. Parker showed us he is capable of putting up 20+ in a streaky sense, but when a very good defensive team focused on him (again, the Laker's series), he folded.
Now, please excuse me if I took offense to your brushing such thinking off. I think its understandable, considering I went to the trouble to bring actual thought to my take.
As far as the rest of your thoughts, I doubt you have enough knowedge of me, on or off this forum, for me to consider your perspective very valuable. Moreover, your meltdown, after calling me immature, is hypocritical to say the least. But moving on.
Someone said Wade has been moved over to the 2; who is bringing up the ball? I saw wade doing it most of the time against the Lakers. In the least he is a combo guard.
I think the point-forward must be considered in the pg catagory; what was Magic if not a point-forward? Lebron handles the ball so much he must be considered. If a guy brings the ball up consistently, he should be a "point."
I am enjoying the thoughts about defense, and wondering who is considered to be a good pg defender by the players and coaches. Except for the best and the worst of the entire league, you just don't hear detailed evaluations of individual player's d.
I think part of the reason is that much of the effect that a defense has on a player has to do with team defense, except in extreme cases (Bowen, Artest, Duncan, B Wallace).
I did read that Parker's lateral quickness was suspect (somewhere...) on d. He certainly is suseptable to post up big guards still, so he can't be the best at that. His quickness allows his the potential to play great perimeter d, and perhaps he has improved in that way.
And point guards that have historically scored very well against the Spurs are not doing as well when they play us, which is a good indication of Parker's improvement; I don't think our overall team D is that different from last year.
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