What this team needs is...

[FromWayDowntown]

I know that they can be even greater than they are and yes, they do have faults (FTs being one of them) but another is that they tend to coast in certain games and get burned. I believe the Sac game was one of these. Tim may have been under the weather but Tony certainly might have been kickstarted into action if another team member tried to pump him up. I've still no clue (and neither does Pop) as to why he never even tried to penetrate the porous Sac defense. We got outrebounded by Sacramento and Webber can't even jump. I call that a lack of hustle.

Pop has motivated the team to a win on countless occasions so there certainly is a case to be made for more motivation at times. The team itself has acknowledged this. You only have to look at the Toronto game or the Sonics games to see this. Look how Manu responded after Pop got on his case. Wouldn't it be nice to see Tony or Tim not neccessarily rip another player but get in their face a bit or be more demonstrative in rallying them?

Your post suggests that there are teams out there that never have bad performances, never get outhustled, never seem lack energy, and never seem to fall prey to the consequences of the NBA schedule's intersection with human frailties. I'd be interested to know what teams those are; I've certainly not noticed that there is some great vocal leader in the league who manages to ensure that his team is never flat.

[TwoHandJam]

Alright.

Name a vocal leader to get and how to get him.

I was lamenting the fact that we don't have a home-grown vocal leader. Seeing as Popovich himself has talked about how he's been searching for a guy who'll be more demonstrative and take the team by the horns, it isn't a easy problem to solve. There are no easy answers.

It needs to be a player who the team will respect and who's also somewhat of a veteran. Tony could still be that guy but he's only showed flashes and is still very young. Tim hasn't been a vocal, demonstrative guy for 8 years so it looks like he'll never fully fill that role. Tim likes to motivate by example but that just doesn't work when you're not having a great game yourself.

Malik might be that guy but he's also only shown flashes. Vets like Kerr and Willis have motivated at times, and that's great but it'd be great to have a starter in that role. I sometimes think Horry could be that guy but I wish I saw more from him in that respect.

Bottom line, I really hope Ginobili or Parker emerges as a more vocal leader but I suppose it'll be later rather than sooner. Who knows, maybe the crucible of the playoffs will change something this year.

[ChumpDumper]

Were we ever 25-7 with AJ or Elie?

[boutons]

"no justification for ever losing,"

My logic is fine, but not as fine as these Spurs. Spurs should only the lose, sometimes, to Top 4 or 5 teams, ie, Sonics@Heat was no shame for the Heat. Spurs beat the teams that are below the Spurs in standings, below in major stat categories, and then slug it out, .500 - .750 ball, with near/equal/better teams, and then add the
"any given night" losses (rare), and the injury losses.

I didn't say we got blown out by SAC, in no way. But we certainly gave that game away by having it too close at the end. Peja's scoring was 9 pts under what Amare did to us, but we blew out PHX. One guy going off isn't enough when the Spurs play their game.

[TwoHandJam]

Your post suggests that there are teams out there that never have bad performances, never get outhustled, never seem lack energy, and never seem to fall prey to the consequences of the NBA schedule's intersection with human frailties. I'd be interested to know what teams those are; I've certainly not noticed that there is some great vocal leader in the league who manages to ensure that his team is never flat.

I notice you conveniently neglected this excerpt from my post.

All I'm saying is that a more vocal leader on the team would help instead of Pop always having to play the heavy when they need it. Of course they would still drop games on occasion as every team does, but probably not as many.

You're just being facetious now. Popovich has lamented the lack of a vocal leader in the press and we all know how much Pop likes the press, so don't try and deny the lack of this dimension on the team. If you disagree with what I'm saying then that's fine but if you've nothing meaningful left to contribute then by all means, don't.

[T Park]

Dont get me wrong 2 hand, Your right, I agree this team could use it.

BUT IMO, its spilled milk, because there isnt a player available this summer, or on the horizon thats gonna come in.

I agree, Ginobili or Parker should become that, but wish in one hand you know what in the other.

[TwoHandJam]

Were we ever 25-7 with AJ or Elie?

Please. No one is denying we have a good record but we also have a team with a lot more talent. We won rings with AJ and Elie and you can be sure they played a large part in that.

DRob didn't rally the team often but he certainly did it at key times during our last le. Especially before game 6 of the finals when he issued the ultimatum at half-time that he wasn't going to lose that game. And he didn't. That's what we need more of.

DRob is now retired so who's going to step up now. That's the 64K question.

[FromWayDowntown]

I notice you conveniently neglected this excerpt from my post.

My sincere apologies for the oversight. I thought a bit of hyperbole might bring this back to reality. I missed your observation and understand your tempered opinion; but I still think what you're asking for borders on a plea for a season without any bumpiness.

You're just being facetious now. Popovich has lamented the lack of a vocal leader in the press and we all know how much Pop likes the press, so don't try and deny the lack of this dimension on the team. If you disagree with what I'm saying then that's fine but if you've nothing meaningful left to contribute then by all means, don't.

You're citing Popovich while omitting his routine admission that these guys aren't inherently vocal leaders and that he can't ask them to become things that they aren't. Somehow, without the now-much-lamented-absence of vocal leadership, the Spurs are off to the best start in franchise history and are playing well beyond any reasonable expectation that could have existed for this team.

I frankly disagree with you about the need for any of these players to step out of character in an effort to become something they can't be or don't want to be. There is an upside to vocal leadership within a team, but there's also a downside -- if the vocal leader doesn't get a player or players going, his "vocal leadership" will often be ignored or become abusive; both are detrimental to team chemistry. Don't you recall Malik and AJ's escapade on a shower-room floor in Cleveland? It's a prime example of "vocal leadership" becoming a bad thing.

I think an inherent strength of this team is its ability to recognize lulls (whether within a game or from game-to-game) and recover quickly from them. They rarely lose consecutive games and never face prolonged losing streaks, largely, I think, because these guys are such professionals that they don't need much external motivation.

[ChumpDumper]

No one is denying we have a good record but we also have a team with a lot more talent.

Kind of relative -- that team was more experienced. This team has a lot of young and inexperienced talent it is depending on. Maybe the last championship is a better comparison -- but who was really the vocal leader then?

[FromWayDowntown]

Kind of relative -- that team was more experienced. This team has a lot of young and inexperienced talent it is depending on. Maybe the last championship is a better comparison -- but who was really the vocal leader then?

David Robinson might be a good guess. I recall an impassioned speech on a bus in Phoenix and his now-famous halftime talk during Game 6 of the Finals.

But that team, like this one, was primarily a lead-by-example group.

[ChumpDumper]

David Robinson might be a good guess. I recall an impassioned speech on a bus in Phoenix and his now-famous halftime talk during Game 6 of the Finals.

Well if all we need is a guy to say a few words during a couple of games....

[maxpower]

The soft tag will definitely never go away when the team's own fans throw it around at any loss. The Spurs will not be the first nor the last team to lose a game they should not lose. Drop the soft tag or lacking a vocal leader. They have been winning around 70% of their games since Robinson has been here.

[boutons]

"but who was really the vocal leader then"

I suspect, guess that David was kind of a moral/spiritual backbone that, vocally or not, influenced the team, allowing Tim to just play ball, without having to carry the responsibility for meta-issues like leadership. Also, I'd bet there was a quite strong "win it for David" spirit, again non-vocally, in what was announced as his last season. Sort of like an "we players all owe David for Spurs success" responsibility. That's more than enough to hold a team together internally without somebody butt-kicking externally.

[FromWayDowntown]

The soft tag will definitely never go away when the team's own fans throw it around at any loss. The Spurs will not be the first nor the last team to lose a game they should not lose. Drop the soft tag or lacking a vocal leader. They have been winning around 70% of their games since Robinson has been here.

To be fair to TwoHandJam, I don't think this is the "soft" discussion. I think there is a wistfulness for guys like AJ and Elie who lacked great talent, but understood the game in a manner that allowed them to motivate teammates who respected the fact that those guys struggled for so long to make it.

I can see the argument in a sense, but I don't think you can wish that a bunch of guys who aren't inherently bent towards vocal leadership will become vocal leaders -- or that any particular one of those guys will do that.

[TwoHandJam]

I think an inherent strength of this team is its ability to recognize lulls (whether within a game or from game-to-game) and recover quickly from them. They rarely lose consecutive games and never face prolonged losing streaks, largely, I think, because these guys are such professionals that they don't need much external motivation.

Yes. I agree largely with what you say here and I believe we're more in agreement than you think. This team is a great bunch of professionals and they don't need much external motivation but they do need some.

That missing motivation is now routinely filled by Pop but I believe the quality and effectiveness of said motivation would be much better derived from a team member.

It's true that a vocal team member rides a fine line and the vocal leadership can become abusive but it can, and has definitely been done before by the likes of Elie, Robinson and AJ - shower scuffles and all.

What's more, the Spurs have never really won a le without it. Without Popovich's rants in the playoffs, we probably drop some key games. Without DRob's ultimatum in game 6, things could have gotten quite hairy. His speech on the team bus when we were in a funk midseason that year alone was huge.

The Spurs are indeed incredibly professional but they still seem to need that edge to reach the ultimate prize. They are off to the best start in franchise history but I disagree that they "are playing well beyond any reasonable expectation that could have existed for this team." I for one fully expected them to excel this year. There was almost no churn on the roster, Parker and Manu have reached key points in their development and there are no contract issues. We've also been able to secure a key bench player in Barry and the level of talent on this team is probably the highest it's been in Spurs history.

Again, there inevitably will be losses during the season but that one leadership dimension we are missing, I believe, would lift this team to an even higher level of excellence. Nights such as when we came out flat against our second meeting with the Sonics (or any game where Pop goes ballistic) are a key example of games that might not be lost due to a lack of motivation and focus.

[FromWayDowntown]

That missing motivation is now routinely filled by Pop but I believe the quality and effectiveness of said motivation would be much better derived from a team member.

I don't disagree, but I don't understand where you want that to come from. If you're wishing that one of these players would become a vocal team leader, you might as well wish that Malik Rose would become a seven footer. And, frankly, I think if you're asking that it come from some outside source, you're only wishing for a major disruption of team chemistry.

[Spurminator]

I would agree if this were the Bulls... but like FWD, I'd worry about disrupting team chemistry by bringing in an outsider as a lockerroom pitbull. Most of the key cogs on this team (Duncan, Parker, Manu, Bowen, Rose) have already won a Championship here or elsewhere (Horry), and probably wouldn't take kindly to some outside nobody coming in and busting balls. Barry is a veteran, and we've seen how Rasho responds to fierce personalities.

Frankly, the two players most likely to respond to an ass-chewing teammate are Beno and Brown... and considering their play this season, it doesn't look like they need it.

[wildbill2u]

What this team needs is...

1Tougher opponents and closer games. It's tough to get 'up' when you're beating teams by an average of 15 ppg. Winning close games makes for championship at udes.

2.Aroma Therapy: The smell of a hard won victory is sweeter than that of a blow out. A winning team gets that smell in its nostrils and doesn't forget it when times are hard and the shots aren't falling.

3.Ear plugs: Too many people whining about various faults as though the team is supposed to win every stinking game this year is bound to be a little boring--and the team will finally tune out when too many folks keep yelling the sky is falling.

[TwoHandJam]

I don't disagree, but I don't understand where you want that to come from. If you're wishing that one of these players would become a vocal team leader, you might as well wish that Malik Rose would become a seven footer. And, frankly, I think if you're asking that it come from some outside source, you're only wishing for a major disruption of team chemistry.

Sometimes I get the feeling you aren't reading my posts. As I said previously:

Bottom line, I really hope Ginobili or Parker emerges as a more vocal leader but I suppose it'll be later rather than sooner. Who knows, maybe the crucible of the playoffs will change something this year.

I don't expect much change, I'm just thinking about what might be.

[Spurminator]

I just saw the part about one of our players stepping up. So I guess that renders my last post irrelevant. But I'm really not convinced there hasn't been enough vocal leadership from within. It's hard to expect any better defense than we've seen, and yelling doesn't make shots go in.

[ALVAREZ6]

This team doesn't NEED anything.

The Spurs are winning, they have a great record.period.

No need to change anything if we are fine how it is.

[BigVee]

Yep, correct. What this team needs to do for the regular season is to keep doing what they have been doing.....winning 78% of their games, which equates to 64 wins. And Pop needs to stop using Parker and Manu as his whipping boys.....and afford them the same respect he does Bowen and TD. Don't try and tell me that BB and TD haven't been more inconsistent lately as 9 and 20. All part of a long season.

[FromWayDowntown]

I don't expect much change, I'm just thinking about what might be.

And all I'm saying is that hoping that such a change will come about is not unlike my hope that Malik Rose will grow 6 inches by the end of the season. Like you, I'm just thinking about what might be; but I also realize that players are who they are. Malik isn't going to grow, and I really can't imagine that Parker, Ginobili, Duncan, Rose, or anyone else among this group is going to suddenly blossom into the vocal leader that you desire.

[TwoHandJam]

I just saw the part about one of our players stepping up. So I guess that renders my last post irrelevant. But I'm really not convinced there hasn't been enough vocal leadership from within. It's hard to expect any better defense than we've seen, and yelling doesn't make shots go in.

No but it definitely does make a difference in the level of focus and intensity and it usually makes a difference in something you can do something about when shots aren't falling. Defense.

I don't know about you but I was really dismayed when we didn't get up for the Sonics in our second meeting and dug ourselves a 19pt hole. It was ing embarrassing to have that happen on our own home court, especially after we'd already dropped a game to them.

Yes, it was very uncharacteristic of the Spurs but these things do happen and when they do, it'd be nice if a player stepped up and did something about it instead of relying on Pop to rip on them. It didn't make our shots go down when he did but you'd better believe we clamped down on them defensively after that.

This is an example of the leadership I'm looking for. If someone on the team had done something demonstrative before half time, we might have won that game.

Yes, the Spurs are professional. Yes they often self-motivate but sometimes, they just lack that extra effort and focus in tight spots and it should really come from within, not just from Pop's rants.

The Spurs are human and it's only human not to get up for every game, but having at least one player on the team who is more vocal and demonstrative would probably help us not to drop some games that we now do.

Call me a perfectionist but that's the way I see it. We could be better in the leadership dept.

[TwoHandJam]

This team doesn't NEED anything.

The Spurs are winning, they have a great record.period.

No need to change anything if we are fine how it is.

The Spurs are playing very well but there are always areas every team needs to improve. I think FT shooting personally is higher on the list than what I'm discussing now.

If I asked you last year if the Spurs needed to improve anything during their 17 game win streak, I'm pretty sure I'd know what your answer would be, yet history shows you would be wrong.