someone who will tear them a new a--hole in the lockerroom when they are underperforming. Someone other than Popovich.
Let's face it. This Spurs team is immensely talented and has what it takes to win a le. However, their biggest enemy is themselves and their own self-motivation. We saw as much in their lackluster performance on Sunday.
Of course this point isn't really new. I've little doubt that they'll respond well tonight and go on another mini-streak but I believe their consistency could be better. If there was someone on the team who clearly filled the role of getting in guys' faces when they came flat, we'd be an even more formidable club.
Sadly, no one has truly played that role since AJ left and Popovich alone is left fill the void with his halftime outbursts and "soft" speeches. We've had Elie, AJ and even Robinson take stands in the lockerroom to rally the troops but I just don't hear of it with this team. At least Ludden doesn't report it to my knowledge.
I'm not a big Malone advocate but I know he wouldn't take the team's mental lapses lightly. I don't see us giving up 19 point leads to Toronto with him on the roster. At least not without someone being grievously injured in the process.
Tim hasn't and probably never will be a vocal leader. Tony has made strides but appears to still feel it's Tim's team. Bowen, Malik, Manu? It's just not there and it's too bad because a motivator who's actually in the trenches with you is often more effective than one who's on the sidelines. If nothing else it would be one other person than Popovich. When it's always the same person calling out the team, will it continue to be effective? What happens if one day it isn't?
With the likes of Elie gone from the staff and even Jackson from the roster, we've lost more of what this team needs at times; a swift kick in the pants. The team's record already displays it's potential. I believe if they could address this weakness they would much much closer to realizing their true greatness.
What this team need is fans that don't jump off the cliff after a loss caused by an abberant poor shooting night. Do the numbers...for all the complaints Spurs are right on track for a 60 win season even if they don't improve their execution...and I have no reason to believe they won't get significantly better...they didn't need a player yelling in the locker room in Sacramento. They just needed a few more shots to fall...
With all due respect, I totally disagree. Over the course of an 82 game season, there will be games when the shot is not there, the effort of some, and the coach will coach differently than a playoff game. Do you have any doubt that Pop would have played certain players more minutes if the Sac game was a playoff game? This team has played at a very high level all year. If anything, Pop needs to back off at times. His act is getting old. Anyone who think Manu needs motivation on the court is crazy. He is the one guy who plays with max effort at all times. It pisses me off when I see him single him out for such public abuse. I didn't see him rip Duncan for a miserable game. Talk about playing without effort? All TD did was turn to the basket, hold the ball where it could be tied up and then whine to the ref for a foul. Let's tell it like it is.
Actually, Tim stood up like a man and dissed his own play for the loss in the papers.
He is a leader and in my view it was Parker that needed to take over the game seeing that Duncan was struggling (and probably sick).
MadDoc
Yes Tim did. No question he never makes excuses for his play. A stand up guy. I just think Pop needs to respect the effort of the other guys enough to keep it indoors.
This is nothing but my call for a "leader" who is necessarily a team member.
I think such a person's credibility in that role can only come being 1) team-veteran (not just NBA veteran) and 2) starter or very heavy contributor in the late-season rotation.
"Malone"
Hopping on the Spurs bandwagon just to get a ring, at the ASB, for a couple months, in his first and probably last season as a Spur is not a credible calling card for a team leader. As credible as he was as a (Jazz) player (was he such a leader on the Jazz, or do some fans "respect" him because he was a dirty player?), he would probably only get "E" grade for effort (willing mind, weak body) on the Spurs. As a dirty player, for this fan, he has no credibilty as leader for any team, let alone the "correct" Spurs. Formerly a good player, yes, a team leader, no.
"I know he wouldn't take the team's mental lapses lightly"
how do you know that? was he the fire-starting and butt-kicking for his last 10 years on the Jazz, or did he just play well and play dirty? I bet Sloan himself played that role.
I agree that the absence of a Spurs team leader probably will cost this very capable group of Spurs 1 or 2 rings that a Michael/Magic/Larry-type of leader would have not let get away.
Consistency is always good and more vocal leadership could help...
but all things considered, Tim and Pop have made a nice team in the leadership area.
"Over the past eight years, ...no team in the four major sports has a higher winning percentage than the Spurs. Not the Lakers, Yankees, Red Wings nor Patriots."
(as reported by SA Express-News and on ESPN.)
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...y.cb8e04a.html
With the number of shots that rimmed out the other night or just missed, it's not like the Spurs got blown out on Sunday night or had some horrendous performance. They lost a road game in a very tough gym against a very good team -- a Sacramento team that many predicted would win its division this season.
That, and it's the first freakin' week of January.
Believe it or not, this team is going to lose games -- I'd hazard a guess that they'll lose at least 10 more, even if they found the greatest vocal leader in the world to step into that lockerroom. Should we prepare for such overreactions with every future loss??
Nobody was crying out for a vocal leader after the Spurs put it on Phoenix, after they beat Miami, or after the two wins against Dallas.
Amen, good perspective FWD.
Agreed, how many shots went in and out.
I know Rasho had 1, Ginobii had one right at the end of the game.
Duncan had a few, Horry had 1.
It was one of them games.
Only thing that couldve changed was more minutes for Barry, but other than that, it was a night where nothing was falling for anyone.
I disagree, they are grown men, they should not need someone to tell them that they are underperforming, believe me, they know. They need a coach or player to just show them where their deficiencies are and what they need to do to remedy it.
A floor leader can do this on the fly, someone needs to step up and do this on a regular basis. The problem is, the Spurs do not seem to have the kind of player that is capable of doing so. AJ was the last player that could do it on a regular basis.
May be true Jim, but that type of player is darn near hard to find, and when you a team finds one, they dont let them go.
I think Brent Barry could come as close to that as possible.
You see him direct traffic while hes in the game quite a bit.
Maybe the solution to THAT problem, (to be truthfull it honestly hasnt been a huge problem this year) is more Brent Barry.
IMO, 28 minutes for him, and that should be Gauranteed every night.
Even if the shot isnt going down. hes showing his slashing ability and his leader ship, court vision, and , NOW his defense is decent.
More steady or justifiable rotations. Barry plays well sits, Rasho plays well and sits, Rose plays well and sits, Parker or Ginobli tears up a half or quarter and sits etc. Must be maddening.
MadDoc
What this team needs is fans who realize what 25-7 means.
25 and 7 is truly great but the sad truth is that this team could easily well be 28 and 4 now and running away with their Division and leading the Conf. For all their work they are only 4 games (really 5 due to tie breaker) over Mavs and this year 1-3 are the Div leads first round.
As Duncan said in the papers you don't want games to haunt you no matter how stout the record.
MadDoc
The Spurs shooting 39% was not caused by a few near-misses. It was caused by overall bad shooting, and Tony not even trying to get his game-changing/winning number of layups. Manu took it to the hoop, showing it could be done vs Kings defense (ie, the Kinds D was not denying Tony), and got 18 pts.
Spurs getting outrebounded was not caused by a few bad bounces. It was lack of hustle. As Pop noted last year, normally when you shoot badly, you usually get more RBs. We managed to shoot badly and get outrebounded.
I would like to say the King's 20 TOs were all or even mostly forced by Spurs defense, but I doubt that, given the Spurs defense and overall tiness. Does anybody know?
Tim, Tony, and Bruce sucked end-to-end, and Pop shouldn't have closed with them, so Pop sucked, too. The closers should been those players who were perfomring, Beno, Brent, Robert, Rasho, Manu, Malik and then we would have beaten a clearly inferior Kings team, and Spurs would be continuing the win streak tonight.
I agree with a lot of people here that this Spurs team is special, helped by the retention of the previous core, and upgraded by Brent and Beno and by Malik re-discovering his role and energy.
Special teams get special results (or they aren't special) by finding a way to win on off-nights. Losing to inferior teams ain't special, it sucks.
Hey, with six players on the floor to close every game, we can go 82-0!The closers should been those players who were perfomring, Beno, Brent, Robert, Rasho, Manu, Malik
Well maybe 80 and 2 but good point! (Pop would still find a way to screw up two, a McGradyMiracle would happen, or more likely they would mess up the FT shooting etc)
yeah its amazing they have won 25 games with such a bumbling moron at the helm.Pop would still find a way to screw up two
Too bad JOhn Lucas still aint here.
as long as our SPAM and all stay healthy, then it's all good.
Give me a break. Please. Why is it that when a critique is lodged against the team, there is so much knee-jerk reaction that loves to label this as "jumping off a cliff".With the number of shots that rimmed out the other night or just missed, it's not like the Spurs got blown out on Sunday night or had some horrendous performance. They lost a road game in a very tough gym against a very good team -- a Sacramento team that many predicted would win its division this season.
That, and it's the first freakin' week of January.
Believe it or not, this team is going to lose games -- I'd hazard a guess that they'll lose at least 10 more, even if they found the greatest vocal leader in the world to step into that lockerroom. Should we prepare for such overreactions with every future loss??
I know this team is great as I mentioned it in my original post. I know their record is formidable and believe it or not - I know they'll lose more games. Incredulous, isn't it. If you want a post about overreaction you should look at your own response. I'm not calling for Pop's head or advocating that someone be cut from the team. That's an overreaction. I'm simply saying that this team could be even better with a vocal motivator who's also a team member.
I know that they can be even greater than they are and yes, they do have faults (FTs being one of them) but another is that they tend to coast in certain games and get burned. I believe the Sac game was one of these. Tim may have been under the weather but Tony certainly might have been kickstarted into action if another team member tried to pump him up. I've still no clue (and neither does Pop) as to why he never even tried to penetrate the porous Sac defense. We got outrebounded by Sacramento and Webber can't even jump. I call that a lack of hustle.
Pop has motivated the team to a win on countless occasions so there certainly is a case to be made for more motivation at times. The team itself has acknowledged this. You only have to look at the Toronto game or the Sonics games to see this. Look how Manu responded after Pop got on his case. Wouldn't it be nice to see Tony or Tim not neccessarily rip another player but get in their face a bit or be more demonstrative in rallying them?
All I'm saying is that a more vocal leader on the team would help instead of Pop always having to play the heavy when they need it. Of course they would still drop games on occasion as every team does, but probably not as many.
Tim is not a vocal leader and accepting blame after the loss, while a great character trait, has nothing whatsoever to do with what I'm talking about.
Last edited by TwoHandJam; 01-04-2005 at 02:21 PM.
This year, diddling around Nov-Feb for SPAM!
We got core rotation back (no 5 months learning basketball), everybody's been rested and healthy (no Manu/Tim/Tony ankles), slow-starting Tim "feels great", and has started pretty damn fast, added Brent and surprising Beno, Malik "back in the saddle again".
The Spurs beat themselves 5 times, and lost 2 games, for 7 losses.
Alright.
Name a vocal leader to get and how to get him.
Im sure Pop and RC would be all ears to that as well.
By that logic, the Spurs (who are alleged to be superior to every team in the NBA) should have no justification for ever losing, since every night, they'll play inferior teams. Give me a break!
They lost a tough game in Sacramento on an off-night in the last of a 3 game roadtrip and the 3rd game in 4 nights. All of that against one of the 5 teams in the NBA that has fewer than 10 losses. It's not like the Kings are lottery-bound or struggling to make the playoffs. That's a good Sacramento team that beat the Spurs, even if you choose to disrespect their record.
At that, for the Kings to beat the Spurs on an off night of horrendous free throw shooting and plenty of rimmed-out shots, it took an electric shooting performance from Peja (who hit some very tough shots) in the 2nd half, a miraculous jumper from Miller, and a blown call on Horry. Change either of the last two, and the Spurs probably win that game, despite their "poor performance." To hear some of you, you'd think they got run out of the gym. They've lost 5 roadies by a combined 19 points. Those things happen over 82 games, particularly when you play with the bigger picture of May and June in mind.
Does anyone really think that the Spurs would be better off over the long haul of this season if Manu, Parker, and Duncan were playing 40+ minutes every night and the Spurs were out 28-4 rather than 25-7? I'm particularly curious about that when history shows that Popovich's teams are extremely difficult to beat between the All-Star break and the end of the regular season.
In light of the Spurs' standing at this point in seasons gone by, thinking a 4 game lead is uncomfortably close is kind of funny.
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