Game Thoughts: Spurs @ Suns Mar. 9

[samikeyp]

Tony IS playing scared or with a serious lack of confidence.

I think its the latter. I think because of that, he is tentative at times.

[Rick Von Braun]

I am very concerned about some Spurs' player, and in particular, Pop's stubbornness to continue giving them minutes:

• Michael Finley: He has had some good stretches during the regular season, but he has been consistently bad this year. I mean really bad player. He is well below the replacement value of an average player in the league... in other words, he has been consistently worse than an average player in the league. While some defensive specialists (e.g. Bowen, Bell, etc.) also suffer in their value since many of their contributions are not registered in the boxscore and some other charts that most scouts use, I would not consider defense (neither one-on-one nor help) one of Finley's forte. Right now, he is hurting the starting lineup, but Pop is very stubborn about him.
  
• Robert Horry: I've seen a couple of games where he looks fresh, in particular on the defensive end, but other than that, he looks very slow, out of place, with no rhythm, and with his shot not falling. In other words, he is looking very old.

The last two games have clearly shown us that against playoff quality opposition (Denver and Phoenix), Finley produces a negative impact on the team. He was definitely a significant contributor to the Spurs' debacle in the third quarter against Denver (mainly lack of D) and in both first and third quarter against Phoenix (mainly, lack of everything!).

I believe these players may contribute spot minutes here and there during the playoffs, but I don't want Pop giving them any consistent minutes. I don't think they will magically flip the switch and become consistent contributors. I would rather them playing when everything else has failed and/or when someone is in foul trouble. I want Pop to learn from his mistakes and prevent another NVE II episode... we all have seen this movie and we know how it ends.

[picnroll]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

Shaq had a good game against the Spurs. Duncan who for all his accomplishments has never developed a near reliable mid-range shot and is not as mobile as most offensive big men is a set-up for a slow, in the paint Shaq. That ain't going to work against most other teams that can put bigs on the floor willing to take and abloe to hit a 16 foot outsiede shot. So whottt pray the Suns matchup with the Spurs so they have any shot at all of getting out of round one and making you look like you know what you're talking about.

On another note I think Duncan as a player is sliding and I've been thinking that all season.

[Southwest Texas Fan]

I didn't get to see the game, yet. Thanks for the synopsis, timvp.

I wasn't surprised the Suns won this home game. Grant Hill did an excellent job defending (both) his man & doubling on Tim in their previous games this year. The addition of Shaq only exposes the Spurs outside shooting weakness more. As I mentioned in another thread, the Spurs aren't as good as they were this time last year because they don't have Brent's scoring and their baseline/weakside help is slow and soft. Any team that can clog the lane and play Timmy physical will force the Spurs to hit their outside shots. The offense is necessary because the defense cannot be relied upon to consistently get stops down the stretch,

I guess that is why the spurs were going after korver. Maybe POP felt the team needed more outside shooting.

[1Parker1]

Korver would have been a great addition to the Spurs

[Bruno]

Pop is a ing genius when he let Vaughn and Bonner on the bench to play Horry and Stoudamire.

[ManuTastic]

Stoudamire did look clueless, though (running around without any purpose).

Very true. Whatever Pop told him lately, he should go back and erase it from his mind.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Our big 3 has to be hitting on all cylinders for this team to win. I don't think Tony is quite there yet. The last two games he hasn't appeared to be moving as quickly as he normally does.

[1Parker1]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

[peacemaker885]

Props to Kurt Thomas. I think he showed a fairly solid game against his former team..something that I couldn't remember any player traded to the Spurs did (except maybe Michael Finley during the playoffs of 2006)

[thebigchill]

They look TIRED! Physically and even more so, mentally. And it ain't gettin any easier any time soon. I still think they're leaving quite a bit in the tank for when it REALLY counts. They're just not pulling out all the stops right now. i.e. Shaq crowd surfing. Suns wanted and NEEDED this one more. It just worries me how close the west is and how tough our upcoming schedule is. I just hope they do have something left in the tank when the 2nd season begins. That's assuming we have a second season. I'm still very confident and have no doubt that we're the team to beat. But right now we look more beat up than anything.

[SenorSpur]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

Well said. And that over-reliance manifest itself by way of the Big Three looking only for each other when they are on the court together. At times when the Spurs are in trouble and trying to overcome a deficit, the big 3 often seem to play amongst themselves, no matter who else is on the court.

It doesn't appear to be anything deliberate, in fact I'm not even sure they ae conscious of it. During these moments, the passing isn't crisp, the cuts and movements aren't there and the overall teamwork and cohesion tends to suffer. That's not Spurs basketball.

[loveforthegame]

Spurs have become over-reliant on the Big 3 to carry the load on offense. It used to be that the Spurs could hurt you with the Big 3 penetrating and kicking out to the open shooter or playing pick and roll basketball. But with Finley, Horry, Oberto, Vaughn/Stoudamire all pretty much useless on offense, it's getting hard. And Bowen hasn't been as consistent with his corner 3 point shot as he's been in the past either.

I mentioned this in another thread. When Parker and Ginobli are attacking the rim they're either scoring, getting to the ft line, or missing some gimmies. They're not kicking out to the open man be it Finley, Bowen, Horry, Stoudamire. I'm not blaming them as they make a lot of things happen for this team obviously but those guys normally taking the open shots are being forced to dribble and make something happen instead. It's ugly and guys are struggling. The only player I've seen get open looks is Udoka but even he is faking the shot and taking a step inside and shooting or passing out.

I wish I was as confident as everyone else that Barry will come back and be healthy. I wish we had an update on his possible return because he's going to need time to get back into game shape as well.

[SenorSpur]

I mentioned this in another thread. When Parker and Ginobli are attacking the rim they're either scoring, getting to the ft line, or missing some gimmies. They're not kicking out to the open man be it Finley, Bowen, Horry, Stoudamire. I'm not blaming them as they make a lot of things happen for this team obviously but those guys normally taking the open shots are being forced to dribble and make something happen instead. It's ugly and guys are struggling. The only player I've seen get open looks is Udoka but even he is faking the shot and taking a step inside and shooting or passing out.

I wish I was as confident as everyone else that Barry will come back and be healthy. I wish we had an update on his possible return because he's going to need time to get back into game shape as well.

When a team is struggling, it's quite common for great players to "take it upon themselves" to will their teams back into contention. That's a quality that makes great players great. It can be a blessing and a curse. True superstars can recognize how to affect the game and beat the opposition in other ways, when the opposition focuses on taking away their strengths.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Props to Kurt Thomas. I think he showed a fairly solid game against his former team..something that I couldn't remember any player traded to the Spurs did (except maybe Michael Finley during the playoffs of 2006)

I think Kurt Thomas had the exact sort of game the Spurs are going to need from him if they want to win a playoff series against the Suns, particularly in the second half. He was knocking down those midrange jumpers that Shaq can never be bothered to rotate over for. What really surprised me were the drives that he took straight into Amare's chest in the second to send STAT to the bench with foul trouble.

And I echo the sentiments of those puzzled/concerned by Parker's play. It was no accident that during the stretch where he was able to attack the rim and make some things happen that things started looking up for the Spurs in the third.

All things considered this was a game I think the Spurs probably should have lost a lot worse than they did. Aside from not being able to buy a bucket down the stretch, their interior D looked suspect at times and I don't expect to see the Suns miss that many open threes again. I still believe we're headed for a repeat, but damn this was not fun to watch.

[SenorSpur]

I certainly agree with the Stoudamire assessment. He seemed to thrive must more when he was playing the role of playmaker, facilitator, setup man and shooter. Once Pop gave him the instructions to be gunner, he's not been the same player.

[peacemaker885]

Playmaker + Gunner => Brent Barry :-)

[Blue-Lightning]

^ Manu and Thomas did their best to get the two to foul out...

[dbreiden83080]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

Suns were playing like dog heading into this game and there is no indication they won't go right back to playing BAD now that it is over. Spurs did not play well at all and were up in this game with 5 min to play. If the big 3 stepped it up down the stretch, Suns fans would still be crying that Kerr ruined their team.

[roycrikside]

PS: I'd like to take this moment to drop a big FU on everyone who told me I was stupid for saying this was a good trade for the Suns, and they will match up better with us because of it...you know who you are.


Like I said...you go out there and take it into the paint on Shaq and then say he's a joke....it's not about his ability to come out on picnrolls and rotate on defense...it's about his ability to knock the living out of anyone coming into the paint, just by shrugging. Shawn Marion he aint...

You miss the point, Whott. It makes them match-up a little better against us, but a lot worse against everyone else. They won't have a chance to beat us in the playoffs unless they see us in the 1st round because whoever they play will knock them out. They're cutting their nose to spite their face. Most other teams have a good tall small forward (Odom, McGrady, Kirilenko, Jackson, Peja) who will take advantage of Marion's absence. We don't have that guy. The Suns defense had been giving up 113 with Shaq before this game.

[SouthernFried]

This game was a HUGE learning experience. Things we learned?

- Kurt Thomas is gonna be WIDE open every time on those pick and rolls. As close to money in the bank as you gonna get.

- Manu stated at halfime "When I drive, I need to kick it out more." Well...?? Do it. TP too. They were exhausted trying to bust into the middle so much and getting beat around. Kick the damn thing out and quit trying to force it. That means you need shooters on the perimeter to take advantage. Bowen, Finley, Barry, Manu, Kurt, mebbe even Ime, can all have field days. It's what's there...take what's there.

- PHX interior defense is now much, much better...their perimeter defense is now much, much worse. Uh....

- Dunno why Parker was trying to do the Manu thing so much in the 4th quarter...when you actually have Manu right there on your team. Mebbe Manu got worn out trying to take it inside. Kinda laughed when Tony was almost begging Manu to come get the ball from him...ended up running over to Manu and just handing the ball off to him.

PHX is now an easier team to beat, imho. But not the way the Spurs tried to beat 'em. Pops a pretty smart guy, methinks he's looking at some tape (do they even use tape anymore?)...and salivating. I would be.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

Just a point on Manu - I think the rest of the team is expecting him to do whatever is necessary to get a bucket and that isn't really spurs basketball. It has never been since 2003. People should only shoot what they are supposed to shoot and that's how the spurs dominate teams but without ball movement that's very difficult to do. I saw in the last play of the 2nd quarter I believe when vaughn had the ball with 20 secs or so, waited for about 10 or 12 to give it to Manu and then expected manu to create something with 6 secs left. If you are going to do that, you need to give it to manu earlier and let him create something with enough time - the suns D was already set and it was a dead play. That's some stupid that needs to be looked at.

[SpurOutofTownFan]

This game was a HUGE learning experience. Things we learned?

- Kurt Thomas is gonna be WIDE open every time on those pick and rolls. As close to money in the bank as you gonna get.

- Manu stated at halfime "When I drive, I need to kick it out more." Well...?? Do it. TP too. They were exhausted trying to bust into the middle so much and getting beat around. Kick the damn thing out and quit trying to force it. That means you need shooters on the perimeter to take advantage. Bowen, Finley, Barry, Manu, Kurt, mebbe even Ime, can all have field days. It's what's there...take what's there.

- PHX interior defense is now much, much better...their perimeter defense is now much, much worse. Uh....

- Dunno why Parker was trying to do the Manu thing so much in the 4th quarter...when you actually have Manu right there on your team. Mebbe Manu got worn out trying to take it inside. Kinda laughed when Tony was almost begging Manu to come get the ball from him...ended up running over to Manu and just handing the ball off to him.

PHX is now an easier team to beat, imho. But not the way the Spurs tried to beat 'em. Pops a pretty smart guy, methinks he's looking at some tape (do they even use tape anymore?)...and salivating. I would be.

Agree with this. The 3pt advantage the Suns had over every other team in the league for the past 4 years is gone completely - now they are a totally diferent team and the old recipes won't work anymore. Pop will have to come up with a different game plan to beat these guys.

[Gino]

Korver would have been a great addition to the Spurs

Korver would have been a great addition for everyone.

[wildbill2u]

Spurs played stupid. They had both Shaq and Amare with five fouls with lots of time left in the game. Did they try to take advantage and get them fouled out? NO! They played perimeter basketball and didn't challenge them hardly at all.

Shaq got away with a lot. Remember that time that Ginobilli was called for a foul when he was down on the ground and Shaq fell over him?

The reason Manu was on the ground was that Shaq cuffed him with that big hand and arm over the neck and shoulders and literally bashed him to the ground. Refs should have seen it.