Will a revote in Michigan and Florida happen?

[MannyIsGod]

Why is it up to him? I see it as being between the DNC and the state.

Now there is that point to consider. Without all the same candidates running, the vote will be skewed. Then there is the after fact of new problems for Obama that were not there before.

I just love it. The democrats always complain about disenfranchised voters, but it is them who are always doing it.

Considering it is a party election process, after all consideration, I see Obama as being right. There should be no revote, and no delegates from the two states seated.

They agreed to those terms at the start and must abide by them.

Pretty sure the Republicans in Florida re the ones responsible for the situatoin there, not the democrats.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't have those numbers.

If you have them, share with us.

However, niether candidate will have enough elected delegates to win the nomination.

It's still up to the Super Delegates, as I've stated over and over before.

So you can't lay out a plausible scenario by which Hillary would win the nomination?

[MannyIsGod]

You're not getting it.

The DNC and the state have already agreed on a revote.


Obama is blocking it.

This race is between himself and Hillary.
Those are the choices for the revote.

What's the problem here?

LOL no they haven't. If they had the primary would be on. Obama CAN'T block it.

[peewee's lovechild]

So you can't lay out a plausible scenario by which Hillary would win the nomination?

Neither candidate can win the nomination with pledged delegates.

I thought I've stated this before.

I know you've read several posts where I've said this very same thing.

[peewee's lovechild]

LOL no they haven't. If they had the primary would be on. Obama CAN'T block it.

He has a team of lawyers blocking it from happening!!!

It's really not all that hard to understand.

[Wild Cobra]

What's the problem here?

The problem is that the rules are being changed in the middle of the game.

However, niether candidate will have enough elected delegates to win the nomination.

This part is simple. You reduce the number of delegates needed by the numbers not there when Florida and Michigan are removed. Right now, it is 2025 needed to win if I remember right. That means there are 4048 or 4049 delegates. After removing whatever the two states offer, the winner needs half (+1/2 to 1) to win.

It's still up to the Super Delegates, as I've stated over and over before.

Yes. This is going to be fun to watch. If they change the balance of the pledged delegates, the democrat party will likely crumble.

[MannyIsGod]

Neither candidate can win the nomination with pledged delegates.

I thought I've stated this before.

I know you've read several posts where I've said this very same thing.

DId I say only use pledged delegates?

[MannyIsGod]

He has a team of lawyers blocking it from happening!!!

It's really not all that hard to understand.

Links confirming this other than what you posted? Whys the democratic source unnamed? This is hardly somethign that should be secret, right?

[peewee's lovechild]

DId I say only use pledged delegates?

Well, in that case either candidate can win the nomination.

Hillary can win with Super Delegates.

We've had this conversation before.

[peewee's lovechild]

Links confirming this other than what you posted? Whys the democratic source unnamed? This is hardly somethign that should be secret, right?

Oh, I see.

CNN is suddenly not credible.

I'm pretty sure when they air something pro-Obama, their credibility will suddenly, magically reappear.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, in that case either candidate can win the nomination.

Hillary can win with Super Delegates.

We've had this conversation before.

THEN LAY IT OUT NUMERICALY! Show me a plausible scenario where what you say can happen CAN.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

PeeWee you need to wake up and think fourth dimensionally.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, I see.

CNN is suddenly not credible.

I'm pretty sure when they air something pro-Obama, their credibility will suddenly, magically reappear.

I never said anything about CNN. I'm making a very simple point here. CNN is not reporting this as fact, they are reporting it as something an UNNAMED source is saying. I question the legitmacy of an unnamed source, not CNN.

[Mr. Peabody]

It's all Obama's fault...

Michigan Redo Plan Collapses

WASHINGTON — The drive for a second Michigan presidential primary collapsed Thursday, and a fresh dispute broke out between Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton over the fate of the state's 156 national convention delegates.

Obama's campaign said a fair resolution would be to split them evenly with Clinton. Aides to the former first lady instantly rejected the idea and said they would consider a mail-in primary _ even though Obama has raised concerns about the security of a vote by mail organized so quickly.

Obama leads the overall compe ion for convention delegates, and Clinton has been leading the effort to hold a revote in Michigan, eager for a chance to close the gap on her rival.

The state held a primary in January, so early in the year that it violated party rules. As a result, it was stripped of its delegates. Obama and several other Democratic candidates removed their name from the Michigan ballot and all Democratic candidates agreed not to campaign there.

Michigan Democratic leaders had proposed a do-over primary, to be conducted by the state on June 3 with funding by private donors. But lawmakers showed a lack of enthusiasm for a bill authorizing the vote, and state Senate adjourned Thursday without taking it up.

Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who has endorsed Clinton, said in a statement that she was deeply disappointed the June 3 do-over was no longer a possibility.

"We will turn our attention to other options," she said. "There is no road to the White House that does not go through Michigan"

In a joint statement before adjourning for two weeks Michigan Democratic House Speaker Andy Dillon and House floor leader Rep. Steve Tobocman said, "Regardless of candidate preference, members had concerns over the estimated 100,000 Michigan Democrats who would have been unable to participate in a do-over election, as well as logistical and legal difficulties faced by local clerks." They said they would help try to find a solution that would seat Michigan delegates.

Sen. Chris Dodd of Connecticut, an Obama supporter and former presidential candidate, promoted the idea of evenly splitting the delegates between Obama and Clinton. "The best outcome is to come to an arrangement where the delegates are apportioned fairly between Senators Obama and Clinton, so the Michigan delegation can participate fully in the Denver convention," he said in a statement.

Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Dodd spoke to campaign leaders about the idea, and they agreed it would be an equitable way of handling Michigan. "Senator Obama looks forward to building a winning campaign in Michigan in the fall as our Democratic nominee," Burton said.

But Clinton told reporters while campaigning in Terre Haute, Ind., that Obama's nomination could be tainted if he achieves it without a second Michigan contest.

"I do not see how two of our largest and most significant states can be disenfranchised and left out of the process of picking our nominee without raising serious questions about the legitimacy of that nominee," Clinton told reporters, referring to Michigan and Florida.

Florida also had its 210 delegates stripped for voting in January. A proposal for a mail-in vote in the state collapsed earlier this month without support from the party's congressional delegation.

Harold Ickes, who is leading the Clinton campaign's efforts to secure delegates, said the campaign would look at a mail-in option in Michigan with the failure of the primary bill.

"Assuming there is not a legislatively required rerun primary, we would seriously entertain the possibility of a party run, mail-in ballot," he said in an interview before the Senate adjourned.

Ickes said there had been no communication between the Obama and Clinton campaigns about how to settle the matter.

As the Michigan plan died, Obama met Michigan resident Jeff Lynch during a campaign stop at a sports bar in Charleston, W.Va., Thursday.

"When am I going to get to vote for you in Michigan?" asked Lynch, of Mount Pleasant, Mich.

"Probably in the general election," Obama replied. "A redo vote is very complicated."

___

Associated Press writers Kathy Barks Hoffman in Lansing, Mich., Charles Babington in Terre Haute, Ind., Beth Fouhy in New York and Matt Apuzzo in Charleston, W.Va., contributed to this report.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Hillary can be named nominee if she wins 20 point victory in Pennsylvania, all unpledged superdelegates go to Hillary and 25% of Obama's superdelegates switch sides due to a popular outcry fabricated by the media.

[clambake]

Obama is the most powerful democrat ever. He put's Cheney to shame

come on peewee, you know he's not the reason.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

PeeWee is reaching Clandestino lows.

[boutons_]

It's not Obama's fault. It the fault of FL and MI for not playing by the DNC rules, which were intensively and clearly negotiated in 2007 and then broken by FL and MI.

Obama's afraid of nothing. He knows he's way ahead. His playing by rules, allied with the DNC, is quite a change from 7 years of dubya's law-ignoring "signing statements".

It's Hillary who is panicking, squirming, clawing and scratching, afraid her earlier inevitability is slipping through her hands. In fact, it's ova and Hillary should quit and help Obama and the party.

You know if the situation were reversed, Hillary would have at least the same position as Obama, while smearing and dirty-tricking to maintain it. There is a real difference between Obama and Hillary personally.

[MannyIsGod]

Here's a tool for you to use to come up with your scenario Pee Wee

http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/

[Don Quixote]

I thought the Democratic mantra, one of them anyway, was "every vote should count." (As often as possible).

That's what they've said in the past, anyway.

[some_user86]

I think the Republicans did it best. Penalize the states that went early by halving their delegates, but still count the primary results. The DNC ed up.

[Nbadan]

Wouldn't of mattered anyway because Republicans aren't proportional like Democrats...every vote should count, but when you vote for a candidate because you think she's beatable in Nov., thats voter fraud...

[Nbadan]

Here Pee Wee.....

Party Statement on Primary Situation
Dear Florida Democrats,

For a year now, the Florida Democratic Party has tried to comply with the Delegate Selection Rules of the Democratic National Committee.

We researched every potential alternative process - from caucuses to county conventions to mail-in elections - but no plan could come anywhere close to being viable in Florida.

We made a detailed case to the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, but we were denied.

Our Democratic legislators in Tallahassee tried to set the Florida primary on Feb. 5, instead of Jan. 29, but of course, their proposed amendment to House Bill 537 was greeted with laughter and derision from the Republicans who control the state government.

Does '537' ring a bell? It should. It's the number of votes that separated Texas Gov. George W. Bush and Vice President Al Gore in Florida in 2000.

It's the number that sent this country and this world in a terrible direction.

We can't let 537 - or the Republicans - determine our future again.

President Bush plans to stop in Florida tomorrow to raise hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Republican National Committee's efforts to elect his successor in November.

The last thing America needs is a third Bush term. Despite the widespread anxiety that working families feel, not to mention the broad agreement among economists that we are in a recession, President Bush and John McCain blindly believe that the economy is strong.

And let me remind you that John McCain endorsed President Bush's decision to deny health care to thousands of Florida children by vetoing an expansion of the successful SCHIP program. McCain also promises to jeopardize the financial security of Florida seniors by privatizing Social Security. He continually threatens to push Florida's military families to the brink by keeping American troops in Iraq for "100 years" or more.

This is why we are Democrats, and this is why we must stick together, no matter where this ongoing delegate debate takes us.

Last week, the Florida Democratic Party laid out the only existing way that we can comply with DNC Rules - a statewide revote run by the Party - and asked for input.

Thousands of people responded. We spent the weekend reviewing your messages, and while your reasons vary widely, the consensus is clear: Florida doesn't want to vote again.

So we won't.

A party-run primary or caucus has been ruled out, and it's simply not possible for the state to hold another election, even if the Party were to pay for it. Republican Speaker of the Florida House Marco Rubio refuses to even consider that option. Florida is finally moving to paper ballots, which is a good thing, but it means that at least 15 counties do not have the capacity to handle a major election before the June 10th DNC primary deadline.

This doesn't mean that Democrats are giving up on Florida voters. It means that a solution will have to come from the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee, which is scheduled to meet again in April.

When this committee stripped us of 100% of our delegates last year, some members summed up their reasoning by saying, "The rules are the rules." Unfortunately, the rules did not apply to Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina when they, too, violated the DNC calendar by moving from their assigned dates.

As the late great Democratic President Franklin D. Roosevelt once said, "We must adjust our ideas to the facts of today... Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are."

The Florida Democratic Party has stuck to its principles throughout this debate. We've remained open-minded while never wavering from our commitment to an open and fair election that would allow all Florida Democrats to participate, whether serving in Iraq, retiring in Boca, studying abroad or entertaining at a theme park.

Another late great President -Abraham Lincoln, a Republican - said, "A house divided against itself cannot stand."

If Democrats heed this wisdom, we will win in November.

America needs a great president again, but a President McCain will settle for the status quo and carry on the disastrous Bush tradition.

President Clinton or President Obama will make history and lead this nation in a new direction.

Let's remember this as the delegate debate continues. We must stick together as Democrats. The stakes are too high and the opportunities too great.

I will keep you posted on any major developments. Thank you for your concern and your commitment.

Sincerely,

Congresswoman Karen L. Thurman
Chair, Florida Democratic Party
Link

...there you have it - straight from the horses mouth...

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here Dan, but the amendment putting the early primary was introduced by a democrat, voted in the bill, and the bill was passed 115 to 1!

Don't blame anyone here but the democrats. Were the republicans suppose to stop the legislation?

[Nbadan]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish here Dan, but the amendment putting the early primary was introduced by a democrat, voted in the bill, and the bill was passed 115 to 1!

Don't take my word for it, take the Florida Democratic Party Chair's word....the democrats tried to push the date back to a DNC acceptable date, but the GOP legislature laughed....