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Kobe will have a cast for 4-5 years now.
If he doesn't get a ring with this cast, he's not even top 20.
Galileo you're a ing idiot, you can't explain everything in sports with some stupid flawed mathematical formula you came up with. Basketball isn't all about numbers there are too many intangibles and you are an absolute idiot if you think Tim Duncan is the best basketball player of all time. Top 10? Sounds fair, you could definately make a case for it. But no way in is he the best no matter how many idiotic formulas u come up with.
Kobe will have a cast for 4-5 years now.
If he doesn't get a ring with this cast, he's not even top 20.
When it comes to consistency players like Jordan, Magic, and Bird all over Duncan. I'm sorry but Duncan doesn't bring it everynight and this is a fact. Players like Jordan, Magic and Bird wanted everyone in that building to know they were the best players on the floor. Tim Duncan is one of my favorite players which makes me hard on him also and sometimes he'll bring a pussified game against inferior compe ion that sickens the out of me. I don't think he's anywhere near Larry Bird. If he played like he gave a damn more often...maybe.
typical banter from a mavs fan. I don't need a formula to prove that the Kidd trade sucked.
It's not banter, you cannot prove everything in basketball with some stupid made up mathematical formula. In your dream world, the Mavs look pretty good on paper we see how that's working out.And everyone knows the Kidd trade sucked i'm ready to rebuild i've given up weeks ago you're not telling me anything I don't already know. Oh, and by the way, Kobe is the best basketball player in the world today. Deal with it.
I thought I was the biggest Duncan fan on the board.
But I don't think he's the best ever.
Top ten, yes. But not 1.
Ebok better than Duncan? Egads!It's not banter, you cannot prove everything in basketball with some stupid made up mathematical formula. In your dream world, the Mavs look pretty good on paper we see how that's working out.
Whatever helps you cope..Ebok better than Duncan? Egads!
Sorry to derail the thread but here's my top 10:
Jordan
Magic
Hakeem(in his short prime)
Kobe
Shaq
Wilt
Russel
Robertson
Bird
Duncan
Svam;Whatever helps you cope..
How do you and Ebok cope with home losses to the mighty Bobcats and rugged Grizzlies. What a joke.
The real Galileo wouldn't resort to lowly team smack, he would come up with about 10 formulas on how Kobe sucks. Get busy .
You think Kobe and Shaq are better than Oscar, Wilt, Russell and Bird? Did you start watching the NBA in 2000?
Duncan brings what he needs to in the Reg season to see to it he can go full throttle come playoff time. He is going to be 32 years old the man is not 25 anymore. If he brought it all for 82 games and had nothing left for the playoffs then what good would that do anybody??? He has won 2 reg season MVP's easily could have been and should have been 3, as he was the MVP in 99 if you ask me. He is amazing in the playoffs every single year, whether they win the le or not. Tim is a better all around player than Bird was he just is. He can dominate a game on both ends the way Bird never could. When Bird had an off shooting night his impact was not as great as Duncan as he can shoot bad and dominate on D and still give people headaches.
It's hard to compare players from different eras. I say this because I believe the league is more compe ive and those players wouldn't be as dominant today as they were. I can't see Wilt out muscling Shaq for 25 rebounds per freakin game. And Kobe is so underrated its ridiculous, he's definately just a short step below Jordan at this point, maybe even more skilled but lacking Jordan's mental toughness and will to win.
If we are going by stats alone and how badly they dominated their compe ion in their time period, then it's gotta be Wilt hands down. No one will ever put up 50ppg and grab 25 rpg ever again.
It's nearly impossible to compare across generations. There are too many variables that your model neglects.
Using a retro-fitted Hall of Fame probability equation as the basis to assess the quality of one player against another strikes me as borderline ridiculous. At that, the disparity between Kobe Bryant and Tim Duncan (or any other "Top 10" player) by that measure is so miniscule as to be statistically insignificant. 4 ten thousandths?
Don't try explaining that to Gaileo. He thinks mathematical formulas are the solution to all things basketball.
One such variable would be the fact that All-Star appearances can sometimes be based more on the popularity of a team or a player than on the quality of that player.
If you wanted to concoct a number to suggest that Tim Duncan is the greatest player in the history of the NBA, it would undoubtedly be possible to do so. The fact that some fomula might lead to that conclusion is not, I would sumbit, proof that the formula conclusively establishes the proposition.
There is no debate among NBA pundits that Tim Duncan is one of the top 10 or so players to have ever played the game. There is a consensus among NBA pundits that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward to ever play the game. Why is that insufficient?
I think Jordan may always be number 1 but Duncan when his legacy is set in stone should make most peoples top 10 of all time i would think.
Last edited by dbreiden83080; 03-30-2008 at 04:45 PM.
It's good enough for me.
Kobe is one of the greatest offensive talents ever. But his contributions and achievements have been vastly over-rated, if anything. His best achievements are single-game (81, 62 in 3 qtrs, etc) or brief stretches (consecutive 40-point games, 3-pointers made etc). His contribution to the 3-peat Lakers was also overrated because Shaq was that dominant. Shaq put up some incredible playoff stats in their 3-peat; Kobe put the finishing touches, but that is easier when someone else carries 60% of the load.
Even after Shaq left, Kobe's proficiency has been over-rated. Kobe's best season is still not as good as T-Mac's best (02-03), KG's (03-04) or Lebron's (current year). His best statistical season doesn't crack Jordan's top 7 or Shaq's top 7.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...er_season.html
Not that Kobe didn't have his chances in the playoffs to lead his team to glory. 2004 was the best chance for him as Shaq was aging and he was in prime position with a very good team to claim the LOB. Instead, he chucked and bricked the Lakers to a 5-game near-sweep. In that series, Shaq got 27/11 on 63% shooting. Kobe got 22.6 PPG at a terrible 38% shooting and 17% 3-point shooting. In the Suns series he could've done what MJ did to the Cavs, i.e. take over the deciding game. That turned out to be his worst playoff game ever.
Whether the regular season or playoffs, at the end of the day, Kobe hasn't done enough to break the top 15 players of all time yet.
Look at it this way, if Kobe was in San Antonio and Duncan was in LA winning les as the man, Kobe gets rated somewhere around Gervin or Drexler status while Duncan is put alongside Kareem and Hakeem.
Kobe Bryant's story is still incomplete. And there isn't enough there to call him a legend yet.
George Mikan
1950
all-star teammates > no all-star game, Pollard would have been all-star
all-NBA 1st team > Jim Pollard
1952
all-star teammates > Pollard, Verne Mikkelsen
all-NBA 2nd team > Pollard, Mikkelsen
1953
all-star teammates > Mikkelsen, Slater Martin
all-NBA 2nd team > Mikkelsen
1954
all-star teammates > Pollard, Martin
all-NBA 2nd team > Pollard
TOTAL
7 all-star teammates
4 2nd team all-NBA teammate
1 1st team all-NBA teammates
14 points
3.5 points per championship
My Votes for Top 5 (in some order):
Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Jabbar
Magic
My Votes for Next 6 (in some order):
Duncan
Bird
Dr. J
Shaq
Malone (Moses, not Karl)
Hakeem
No love for Erving and Moses Malone in this thread? Is there an anti-Philly bias?
And in my opinion, the best case for ranking Duncan #6 all-time is:
(1) He’s that rare bird that’s perennially among the league’s best offensively and defensively (like Jordan, Chamberlain, and Jabbar before him, and unlike Magic, Bird, and Shaq), and
(2) He’s led very different casts to les (like Russell and Magic, and unlike Jordan and Bird), which to me is evidence that he’d likely have won one or more les with just about any good group of supporting players.
Galileo, this was your best effort yet, but it still falls short. Why? Because you can't use a formula to calculate the differences b/t eras.
-Mars
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