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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF6CIOQTEwA
Okay, the guy who posted this video on youtube is a tool, but it's got a lot to do with why he has never won. He's disliked, I think.
Sam Mitc winning the COY award last year over Jerry Sloan who's team went to the WCF is a joke. I honestly thought last year there was no compe ion or gray area in who the COY should have been.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF6CIOQTEwA
Okay, the guy who posted this video on youtube is a tool, but it's got a lot to do with why he has never won. He's disliked, I think.
Barbosa was an easy pick last year. Who was yours?
Now if you can just explain to everyone what "sixth man" minutes are and how this quan y of minutes should disqualify one from the award. Also, elaborate on "starter" minutes and just how many one has to have to be included on the All-NBA teams. I don't think Tim qualifies. Thanks!!!
PPG:
Manu 19.6, Leandro 15.8
RPG:
Manu 4.8, Leandro 2.8
APG:
Manu 4.5, Leandro 2.6
SPG:
Manu 1.5, Leandro .9
BPG:
Manu 0.4, Leandro 0.2
FG%:
Manu .458, Leandro. 464
FT%:
Manu .858, Leandro .821
3PT%:
Manu .401, Leandro .391
I guess Chris Palmer values FG% above all else
But that shouldn't even be in the criteria. And, honestly, Bowen's chippiness wasn't a matter of much public or media debate until at least the latter parts of the 04-05 season (Ray Allen's tantrums about Bowen) or sometime during the 05-06 season.
There's little doubt, from an observational standpoint or an empircial standpoint, that Bruce Bowen has been a premier perimeter defender in this league for years -- if not THE premier perimeter defender in the league. He's unique in the way that he can check just about every other team's best player -- certainly every other team's best wing or guard -- and be effective on a nightly basis doing that. He doesn't have the stats that a guy like Kirilenko or Camby or Ben Wallace or others might have, but I'd argue that he's better than all of those guys because he just steadily does a job that can only be measured effectively by esoteric metrics that few people actually understand.
If its outrageous that Jerry Sloan has never been COY, it's equally outrageous that Bruce Bowen has never been DPOY. At least Sloan will have many more chances to get that recognition. Bowen is unlikely to have more than 1 or 2 more chances, if that, to get that long, long, long overdue reward for his excellence.
I'm tired of hearing that Manu isn't a true sixth man. There is no gray area here. You either start most games or you come off the bench most games. Manu has come off the bench most games, and is the first off the bench most games. To suggest he isn't a sixth man isn't a matter of a difference of opinion, it's a matter of being wrong.
Kevin McHale was an All Star and averaged 19-9 in his 6th man years. Ricky Pierce won it averaging 23 ppg. This isn't the first time one of the best two or three players on a team has been up for 6th Man.
Who was who's pick? Mine? I'll assume so since I spoke his name last.
Barbosa. I just think it help's Manu's cause for this year, that's all.
Okay? I mean I've already conceded giving it to him this year. Let's just say he stayed on the bench for the next six years and in each of those seasons he was the best bench player, as he is now. By your logic he'd win it six seasons in a row. I'm all for him getting some recognition, but to say that there is no room for grey area is ridiculous and bordering on arrogant. All the other bench players, who couldn't be starting on any of the other 29 teams deserve some respect too. That's the point of the award, to reward guys who otherwise aren't yet good enough to start, but still manage to contribute.
No, the point of the award is to award the best player who comes off the bench. And why not award players who are good enough to start but set their egos aside for the sake of their teams?
And Manu wouldn't win it that many years in a row because voters like to spread things out.
Oh, I misread your post. I thought you were saying that Barbosa shouldn't have won it last year, but instead you were saying that Barbosa has already won it so Manu [easy choice, IMO] should win it this year over Barbosa. My mistake.
There have been nine (out of 25) 6MOY winners who averaged more minutes per game than Manu.
Don't Hate.
Frankly, I think McHale's wins in the 80's invalidate the only existing criticisms against honoring Ginobili with this award. The same could be said for the fact that Antawn Jamison won the award in 2004 -- was there any great hue and cry about giving the award to Jamison, who had started 82 games in each of the three preceeding years while being a 20 ppg scorer? If there was, I honestly don't recall it.
There's never been any reason to think that the fact that a guy is a great player should somehow disqualify him from winning 6MOY. Indeed, McHale was making the All-Star team when he won 6MOY (Manu hasn't -- his one All-Star appearance came in 2005, when he started 74 games).
It does seem like there has been at least one conversion on Manu's having rightfully earned this recognition in this thread, but I'd like for others to see that the arguments being made against Manu as 6MOY are, as best I can tell, historically unprecedented. I don't know that anyone has ever suggested disqualifying a player from winning 6MOY because he was too good.
Your welcome. I have explained. I will try a different approach for you. Honestly. Every knows Mangoo is not a "6th man" But here you go.
Starters for Spurs:
Tony Parker = 33 Minutes
Oberto=20 minutes
Duncan 34 minutes
Bowen 30 minutes
FInley = 27 minutes
Then there is Mangoo = 31 minutes
The bench. I think 18 minutes was the most someone averaged. Mangoo has more minutes then 3 of the starters on his own team. He plays more than the guy he replaces, Finley or Barry if he gets the nod. Please as a Spur fan clap when Mangoo gets the award but don't cry about how the Spurs get ripped off from other awards and the Spurs are treated so badly. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Ya and the Celtics last year tanked there season just like the Spurs did to try obtain the number one pick in Draft. And The Miami Heat are doing it this year. Does not make it right.
Its a BS award. Its suppose to go to the 6th best player on a team of the entire league. Mangoo is a all star who finds himself in foul trouble thus Poppy sits him a spell to tame the wild beast.
Actually, I cry for the way the Grizzlies are mistreated by the voting media.
Is that drivel supposed to represent some kind of argument or did your meds kick in?
Not in 2008.
Interesting that you would say that foul trouble is really the reason that Manu comes off the bench. Guys who average less than 3 fouls per night, has had 4 fouls or more in only 13 games all season, and hasn't fouled out of a game all year are usually the sorts you think of as foul magnets who can't start games.
Not a Grizzles fan. NBA fan. Had to pick a team to register.
Fromwaydown town-, Pop learned not to start the wild foulling beast thats why his fouls are down this year. Of course he is not a allstar this year. His own team won't start him but we all know he is one
Sperminator- Meds? Reallly, thats your next part of the conversation. You said one thing earlier in the thread, then repeated it a second time and now, Meds? Nice. And no I am not arguing.
Manu's averaging the same number of fouls per game this year as he has in every year of his playing career.
Honestly, I don't think you're paying much attention to the NBA if you're truly convinced that fouls have anything to do with why Manu comes off the bench.
Again with the fouling thing? Manu has never averaged more than 2.6 fouls per game in a season. Where are you getting this crap?
Maybe I was wrong on the meds, you're just on hard drugs.
Damn, I keep posting right behind FWD... It's like we're double teaming Ricky Davis.
I don't know, though -- Ricky Davis occasionally comes up with points.
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