Kawhi's offensive game is "antiquated."

[midnightpulp]

Or the Spurs need to find/develop a 20ppg point guard threat with Kawhi scaling back his midrange game and looking to dribble-drive more.

Kyle Lowry: 20ppg on .721TS in this series. Raptors up 3-2. Kawhi, still taking too many midrange jumpers, but has offset his poor midrange shooting percentage over the last 3 games with good 3 point shooting, getting to the rim, and getting to the line.

[midnightpulp]

That was just a coincidence. 2 of the 3's were step backs with Lopez putting a hand up. Maybe some of the others were spot up 3's. Like you said his midrange shot is a higher percentage. Of course the value of the 3pt shot is more.

That's fine. I'm aware that he's very capable 3pt shooter and that has greater value than his midrange shots. The pts made on the the midrange shot isn't the only value of the shot. Making a shot at a higher percentage has value because you can set up your defense. Having the defender play you tight allows you to get more fts. It allows you to create from more areas of the court. It allows you to hit a higher percentage shot when you only need 1 or 2 pts. Also nobody said I wanted him to take more midrange shots.

Then what was the in' purpose of bumping this thread? I called Kawhi's game antiquated as it relates to how midrange centric his game can be at times. 10 midrange attempts from a 40% 3 point shooter isn't a winning strategy. You'd like to see those attempts cut in half and go toward shooting more 3s.

Yes, I've also argued that during the endgame (late 4th quarter) in a close contest, the priority should just be to score and not worry about PPS efficiency. The midrange can be beneficial in that scenario. That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about when Kawhi prioritizes his midrange game above all else in an effort to emulate his heroes Jordan and Kobe (those are the styles most players of his generation patterned themselves after, so sometimes he'll fall into that habit). That is an "antiquated" offensive style. There's no spinning that.

[apalisoc_9]

Kawhi needs to continue shooting the midrange since so many of his hesitation moves is done with the midrange in mind.

He doesnt have the finese or speed to consistently reach the paint or three point explosivness to continue hitting threes so he has to rely on his efficiency in the paint and the three.

I suspect his percentage around the rim and his 3 will struggle a lot if he suddenly decides to go Houston Rockets style.

[midnightpulp]

Kawhi needs to continue shooting the midrange since so many of his hesitation moves is done with the midrange in mind.

He doesnt have the finese or speed to consistently reach the paint or three point explosivness to continue hitting threes so he has to rely on his efficiency in the paint and the three.

I suspect his percentage around the rim and his 3 will struggle a lot if he suddenly decides to go Houston Rockets style.

You can achieve that meta game by taking 5 or so attempts. Once the seed is planted, defenses will honor. If he wants to be midrange centric, that puts more pressure on the Raps role players to hit their 3s.

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi continues his "unsustainable" playoff performance. He also had an "unsustainable" playoff performance in 2017. I wonder if will see more "unsustainable" playoff performances in the future.

[duncan2k5]

Then what was the in' purpose of bumping this thread? I called Kawhi's game antiquated as it relates to how midrange centric his game can be at times. 10 midrange attempts from a 40% 3 point shooter isn't a winning strategy. You'd like to see those attempts cut in half and go toward shooting more 3s.

Yes, I've also argued that during the endgame (late 4th quarter) in a close contest, the priority should just be to score and not worry about PPS efficiency. The midrange can be beneficial in that scenario. That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about when Kawhi prioritizes his midrange game above all else in an effort to emulate his heroes Jordan and Kobe (those are the styles most players of his generation patterned themselves after, so sometimes he'll fall into that habit). That is an "antiquated" offensive style. There's no spinning that.

Isn't a winning strategy? Dude is literally one game away from the finals... That's more winning than every bother team in the league except the one waiting for them

[midnightpulp]

Isn't a winning strategy? Dude is literally one game away from the finals... That's more winning than every bother team in the league except the one waiting for them

6-24 is a winning strategy (midrange shooting percentage over the past 3 games)?

No, the Raptors are 1 game away from the NBA Finals. Lowry and VanVleet have been very good over the past 3 wins, with Siakam and Powell having a big game 3. Kawhi's scoring is coming via the 3, FTs, and at the rim, and not via trying to play like Jordan. When he does try to play like Jordan, he's missing shots.

[duncan2k5]

6-24 is a winning strategy (midrange shooting percentage over the past 3 games)?

No, the Raptors are 1 game away from the NBA Finals. Lowry and VanVleet have been very good over the past 3 wins, with Siakam and Powell having a big game 3. Kawhi's scoring is coming via the 3, FTs, and at the rim, and not via trying to play like Jordan. When he does try to play like Jordan, he's missing shots.

So I guess without Kawhi, they would beat the Bucks then?

[midnightpulp]

So I guess without Kawhi, they would beat the Bucks then?

You're still not understanding the argument. I also made this thread in 2017, and at the time, beating the Warriors was the goal. Our best player centering his offense around midpost/midrange wasn't going to get the job done. I wanted Kawhi taking more 3s and trying to get to the rim. And for the last 3 games against the Bucks, that is where he's been doing his damage, not from the midrange.

[DAF86]

Helmet crew trying to ownage bump . Let's look at the old shot chart:

Yeah, he really did a lot of damage from the midrange going 2-10.



Be prudent to read the thread before bumping and see the arguments, in which I advocate for Kawhi getting to the rim more (8 points on 100 percent shooting). His midrange game didn't win tonight.

The shots at the rim and the 3 pointers open up for Kawhi because he can hit the midrange and vice versa. He's a complete beast, he was never antiquated.

[midnightpulp]

The shots at the rim and the 3 pointers open up for Kawhi because he can hit the midrange and vice versa. He's a complete beast, he was never antiquated.

You don't need to take 10 midrange shots to get defenses to honor it as a possibility. Also, modern defenses actually try to force teams to shoot midrange jumpers.

"Well, Kawhi is different since he shoots midrange shots so efficienctly."

He's one of the best midrange shooters in the game, indeed, but is still only a 45 percent career shooter. I'd let him have 18 footers all day over threes. If he beats me from there, so be it.

[JeffDuncan]

...

He's one of the best midrange shooters in the game, indeed, but is still only a 45 percent career shooter. ...

You need to check your numbers.

[midnightpulp]

You need to check your numbers.

I meant on midrange attempts from 10-22 feet.

[YGWHI]

"But but he doesn't make his teammates better"

Surprise surprise...Once raptors shooters started to make open shots...Kawh's asp increased.

It's a shame that people here who say they watch games didn't notice his improvements at playmaker...He was creating for others so well vs Sixers too but most of his teammates couldn't hit an ocean in that series.

9 last game. 7 tonight.

"antiguated"?? well he's putting 90's-Jordan numbers.

[Bill_Brasky]

Kawhi being able to beat double teams with good passing = uh oh for opposing teams, pretty much like any star player

[TDMVPDPOY]

the year kawhi led team to wcf vs this year

u notice he doesnt stagnate the offense when his dribbling closer to the key for the defense to collapse on him? he doesnt do this on the raptors till lately in the playoffs...

but but the idiots in here keep on saying his not a playmaker, his over dribbling kills the spurs offense, rather have the ball in his hands shooting the ball then watching green bricking bricks, wombat chucking bricks, lma shooting bricks over midgets

[RC_Drunkford]

Kawhi had multiple playoff games as a Spur where he put up 7-8 assists. That narrative is bull

[duncan2k5]

Kawhi had multiple playoff games as a Spur where he put up 7-8 assists. That narrative is bull

Not to mention we were near the top of the league in assists when he was here... Kawhi can average a couple more assists like lebron, harden and demar... But look where they're at now

[DPG21920]

"But but he doesn't make his teammates better"

Surprise surprise...Once raptors shooters started to make open shots...Kawh's asp increased.

It's a shame that people here who say they watch games didn't notice his improvements at playmaker...He was creating for others so well vs Sixers too but most of his teammates couldn't hit an ocean in that series.

9 last game. 7 tonight.

"antiguated"?? well he's putting 90's-Jordan numbers.

Happy for you and your family! I know Kawhi means a lot to you and the amount of effort and time you spend on a rival message board educating fans about Kawhi is noble.

But I have to disagree with you conflating 2 games with high assist numbers as some sign that he has improved a ton as a playmaker.

He prefers to shoot. That’s fine. He’s not passing unless he has to and unless it’s the clear and obvious choice. He’s not someone with great vision nor are his passes (the vast majority of them) difficult or ahead of the playmaking curve.

That’s fine, he’s still top 3, but I disagree with your premise and how you framed your point.

[midnightpulp]

Happy for you and your family! I know Kawhi means a lot to you and the amount of effort and time you spend on a rival message board educating fans about Kawhi is noble.

But I have to disagree with you conflating 2 games with high assist numbers as some sign that he has improved a ton as a playmaker.

He prefers to shoot. That’s fine. He’s not passing unless he has to and unless it’s the clear and obvious choice. He’s not someone with great vision nor are his passes (the vast majority of them) difficult or ahead of the playmaking curve.

That’s fine, he’s still top 3, but I disagree with your premise and how you framed your point.

assists. It's an "antiquated" stat to determine how good a player playmakes. I also never claimed Kawhi doesn't make teammates better/worse. My whole argument in this thread was about tapering off some of his midrange game in favor of getting to the rim/shooting more 3s. In 2017, when I made this thread, he was taking 21% of his attempts from 16-22 feet, the most inefficient range on the court. This year, he took 15% from that distance. His 0-3 foot attempt percentage increased from 17% in 2017 to 25% this season. So it looks like someone gave him the memo.

And why is the helmet crew bumping this thread when he shot 41 percent from the field and had 6 turnovers, which gave him a poor assist-to-turnover ratio. Oh, all them rebounds? I've called Leonard the best SF rebounder of his generation. It's funny how they YGWHI bump and strawman every time Kawhi has a good game. I never claimed he wasn't a championship team centerpiece. Also funny that these dip s are following him to other teams. The modern NBA fan, back of the jersey over the front.

[midnightpulp]

As I said:

Or the Spurs need to find/develop a 20ppg point guard threat, with Kawhi scaling back his midrange game and looking to dribble-drive more.

Ultimately, Kawhi + right talent >> Harden + right talent. But Harden is compatible with more types of talent.

Kyle Lowry averaged 19, 5, 5 on 70% TS in the series. When's the last time the Spurs got anything like that from a PG?

[YGWHI]

Happy for you and your family! I know Kawhi means a lot to you

Thanks! I really appreciate this.

He’s not someone with great vision nor are his passes (the vast majority of them) difficult or ahead of the playmaking curve.

It seems like you didn't watch Raptors' games or highlights but it's fine, Skip.

Also, this wasn't about Kawhi anymore. This was about mid/timvp/chinook being so wrong.

"but but Derozan is a better offensive player than Kawhi...we never had a natual scorer like him... maybe Parker" that first thread after the trade...

I still remember Chinook saying Kawhi should trot to the corner and wait there...and this midnight's trade.

Like Kawhi said..."I'm enjoying the moment". THIS moment.

[DPG21920]

Thanks! I really appreciate this.


It seems like you didn't watch Raptors' games or highlights but it's fine, Skip.

Also, this wasn't about Kawhi anymore. This was about mid/timvp/chinook being so wrong.

"but but Derozan is a better offensive player than Kawhi...we never had a natual scorer like him... maybe Parker" that first thread after the trade...

I still remember Chinook saying Kawhi should trot to the corner and wait there...and this midnight's trade.

Like Kawhi said..."I'm enjoying the moment". THIS moment.

Lol accusing me of not watching the games after saying what you said. You like to scoreboard a lot don’t you? Even when it makes no sense