Jackie Butler: Will The Knicks Match? (3-year, $7M)

[exstatic]

If the kiddie table is offering more guaranteed money, it won't look so bad to a lot of players. The ABA collected some decent players back in the day by making it easier to get paid.

This is even more true for guys looking to come over at 26 or 27 -- even if they get to cash in on a followup contract, how many years will they get to collect at that higher salary, anyway?

Then stay in Europe. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is all of the whining about the system, as it is. Learn the system, and work it, or STFU. It is what it is.

If you come to the NBA though, you have a chance to get to that final table for the big bucks. That's something the "kiddie table" doesn't offer. Rare is the Euro player that makes even $5M a year, middle class wages by NBA standards.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If the Spurs think they can draft people in the 2nd round and trap them into taking very low salaries because they have no other NBA options, then they're going to burn a lot of bridges in the long run.

The Spurs, since the beginning, have never "trapped" their second rounders into low salaries. They have offered a reasonable market value (for having a candid market) contract, with the promise that if the player comes over and proves he's worth it, he'll get paid the second time around.

You've got no problem holding up Scola and Javtokas as examples of the cheapness of the front office, but completely gloss over a guy like Manu who took the LLE (same thing being offered to Jav), paid his dues, then got paid.

Why should it be any different for a Euro paying his dues in the NBA than it is for American players? Everyone knows LeBron is a max player, but he's playing on a rookie deal.

Tony Parker started play for 900K a year, and now he's making way more jack than he ever could have gotten paid in Europe.

Your examples and logic are grossly flawed, Mr. Body. If Javtokas is looking to get paid on the first contract, it tells me he is not confident enough in his abilities to earn a bigger second deal, and is looking to cash in on contract #1.

Not going to happen, hasn't happened for any Euros coming over whose rights are owned by an NBA squad already.

[velik_m]

just because he wants it doesn't mean that it's market value.

He didn't just want that, he got that.

You obviously don't understand what "market value" means. Market value means what do most of group X get for their services. For second round picks, I guarantee you that the average is well below the LLE. That's just a fact. Their market IS their drafting team, and no others.

Funny i thought each player is an individual and has his own asking price. So, tell me what is a market price for athletic C in nba this days?

Then stay in Europe. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is all of the whining about the system, as it is. Learn the system, and work it, or STFU. It is what it is.

If you come to the NBA though, you have a chance to get to that final table for the big bucks. That's something the "kiddie table" doesn't offer. Rare is the Euro player that makes even $5M a year, middle class wages by NBA standards.

I agree, there should be no whining - ultimately it is a player's choice. The concern is however not for the player, it's for the team. If the players from Europe start avoiding draft (especially second round), the spurs will be forced to compete on the open market for them with all the teams not just with some euro teams.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

. If the players from Europe start avoiding draft (especially second round), the spurs will be forced to compete on the open market for them with all the teams not just with some euro teams.

That will never happen because the true compe ors want to come to the NBA and play against the best.

[tempest186]

No because at 22 years of age they are automatically eligible for the draft.

[strangeweather]

Then stay in Europe. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is all of the whining about the system, as it is. Learn the system, and work it, or STFU. It is what it is.

Fair enough. As I said earlier, though, it may complicate drafting second rounders down the road. A pick for a guy who never comes here is just as wasted as a pick for a scrub who can't play.

If you come to the NBA though, you have a chance to get to that final table for the big bucks. That's something the "kiddie table" doesn't offer. Rare is the Euro player that makes even $5M a year, middle class wages by NBA standards.

True. But I think Euro wages are growing faster than NBA wages. If the gap keeps gradually shrinking, that's going to be a less important selling point.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

True. But I think Euro wages are growing faster than NBA wages. If the gap keeps gradually shrinking, that's going to be a less important selling point.

Show me all the Euros with contracts like Manu's, Tony's, Gasol's, etc.

Thanks.

[Obstructed_View]

All a guy has to do is sit out a year to free himself from his bondage. Very simple.

[MannyIsGod]

Javaktovas overplayed his hand big time. Either that, or the Spurs just didn't want him that much. I don't think any of that signals anything about Euro dealings.

[strangeweather]

Show me all the Euros with contracts like Manu's, Tony's, Gasol's, etc.

Thanks.

There aren't any. But it wasn't that long ago that there weren't any $5M a year Euros either.

Some people might think that they could keep their bills paid on $5M a year. Surely that will be even more the case when it becomes $6M or $7M.

And for every Manu or Dirk who comes over here and strikes it rich, there's an Oberto or Jasikevicius who was a star in Europe but ends up being a benchwarmer here for less cash. Most of these guys don't know how a jump to the NBA is going to turn out beforehand, so the risk is substantial.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

There aren't any. But it wasn't that long ago that there weren't any $5M a year Euros either.

Some people might think that they could keep their bills paid on $5M a year. Surely that will be even more the case when it becomes $6M or $7M.

And for every Manu or Dirk who comes over here and strikes it rich, there's an Oberto or Jasikevicius who was a star in Europe but ends up being a benchwarmer here for less cash. Most of these guys don't know how a jump to the NBA is going to turn out beforehand, so the risk is substantial.

So what? If they come over and it doesn't work out they can go back to Europe and get paid and be a star again. It all boils down to a player walking the walk and coming over to prove they belong.

It's the same that drafted players (even first rounders) have to go through, I don't know why anyone is playing a violin for a Euro in the same situation.

[strangeweather]

So what? If they come over and it doesn't work out they can go back to Europe and get paid and be a star again. It all boils down to a player walking the walk and coming over to prove they belong.

It's the same that drafted players (even first rounders) have to go through, I don't know why anyone is playing a violin for a Euro in the same situation.

I'm not playing a violin for anyone -- the NBA has rules and a way of doing business, and players can do things the NBA way or they can play somewhere else. There are certainly a lot more options now than there were 20 years ago.

As I have said repeatedly, my only concern is that this will start complicating the business of finding affordable guys overseas. If they choose not to come over, it's a wasted pick.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As I have said repeatedly, my only concern is that this will start complicating the business of finding affordable guys overseas. If they choose not to come over, it's a wasted pick.

How is it a wasted pick? They're just as likely to draft a 'bust' here in the US as they are to not have a Euro come over because he doesn't want to play with the big boys.

[strangeweather]

How is it a wasted pick? They're just as likely to draft a 'bust' here in the US as they are to not have a Euro come over because he doesn't want to play with the big boys.

If we draft a scrub who can't play in the NBA, it's also a wasted pick.

It's just part of the draft that some picks end up being wasted, but any pick that doesn't contribute to your team is wasted, right?

I didn't mean we shouldn't draft Euros. We should. But if we end up not bringing them over, in the end it's a waste.

[exstatic]

You're not going to find any American Manus late in the second round. An American picked late in the second round (where the Spurs usually pick) is probably a waste. A Euro is a crap shoot. I don't think that those are the same thing at all.

[strangeweather]

You're not going to find any American Manus late in the second round. An American picked late in the second round (where the Spurs usually pick) is probably a waste. A Euro is a crap shoot. I don't think that those are the same thing at all.

I agree that it still makes more sense for us to take flyers on Euros in that slot unless someone from the US that we like somehow happens to fall to us. And the chance of having Javtokas at some point is still > not having the rights to Sato anymore.

Then again, I don't know how many Euro Manus there are going to be in that slot either anymore -- this year we traded away our pick rather than using it to uncover a new steal.

[waly.mg]

Then again, I don't know how many Euro Manus there are going to be in that slot either anymore -- this year we traded away our pick rather than using it to uncover a new steal.

Euro Manus????????

Do you ever saw a Map?

[MannyIsGod]

Euro Manus????????

Do you ever saw a Map?

We use the term Euro to signafy a player playing in a European leauge, not his country of origion. Did Manu play in Italy or Argentina? Is Italy in Europe or do I need to saw a map?

[Obstructed_View]

Euro Manus????????

Do you ever saw a Map?

From NBA.COM
Ginobili spent two seasons - 1998-99 and 1999-00 - with Basket Viola Reggio Calabria before joining Virtus Bologna for the 2000-01 season

[spursmode]

This says something about the spurs sad offseason when there are 551 replies to a thead about Jackie Butler. GO SPURS GO

By the way I tried sawing a map and it just made a big mess. I would just suggest to anybody else just using scissors to cut it.

[Obstructed_View]

This says something about the spurs sad offseason when there are 551 replies to a thead about Jackie Butler. GO SPURS GO

Yeah, a 21 year old center project with massive upside on the cheap to replace two overpaid guys who didn't even get PT in the deciding series of the playoffs. Man, I'm gonna go find a razor.

[spursmode]

Yeah, a 21 year old center project with massive upside on the cheap to replace two overpaid guys who didn't even get PT in the deciding series of the playoffs. Man, I'm gonna go find a razor.

How does this make us better. Lets get one thing straight, we are just dumping salaries of guys that were overpaid. If Nazr would have taken the same amount of money that Butler is getting, who would you want? Who was more productive when on the floor. Taking Butler just makes fiscal sense and he might play ok. But by no means are we better. So lets sop acting like it. We will just be different. Upside is just another word for potential. Who says he has potential. Isiah? Isiah love him. Isiah loved everybody last year and that is why they are so ed up now. He has no business being a GM.

[exstatic]

How does this make us better. Lets get one thing straight, we are just dumping salaries of guys that were overpaid. If Nazr would have taken the same amount of money that Butler is getting, who would you want? Who was more productive when on the floor. Taking Butler just makes fiscal sense and he might play ok. But by no means are we better. So lets sop acting like it. We will just be different. Upside is just another word for potential. Who says he has potential. Isiah? Isiah love him. Isiah loved everybody last year and that is why they are so ed up now. He has no business being a GM.

Who would I take at the same money? Butler. Nazr is what he is and he isn't ever getting better at this point.

You can throw a lot of rocks Isaiah's way, but the one thing he does WELL is find and harvest young talent. Players he's drafted include Camby, Damon Stoudemire, TMac, Trevor Ariza, and Channing Frye.

[spursmode]

Who would I take at the same money? Butler. Nazr is what he is and he isn't ever getting better at this point.

You can throw a lot of rocks Isaiah's way, but the one thing he does WELL is find and harvest young talent. Players he's drafted include Camby, Damon Stoudemire, TMac, Trevor Ariza, and Channing Frye.

Everyone is en led to their opinion. What do you think Pop and RC would have done? Go after Nazr at 3 years at $7,000,000 or Jackie at the same.
Hmmmm. Butler has a huge line of teams that sees his upside. How many teams gave him a offer? Hmmmm. Well Detroit with Dumars must be a bunch of dumb s by offering Nazr that and not going after Jackie at a fraction of the price. The point I am trying to make is don't confuse dumping salaries with getting better now. It's nothing more than a fiscal move on the spurs part. Jackie might be able to play but lets not kid ourselves. We are not better off with him right now. We are still a championship caliber team and can still win it all but we are not a better team right now. We are worse off with the additions verses the subtractions in my opinion.

[Obstructed_View]

How does this make us better. Lets get one thing straight, we are just dumping salaries of guys that were overpaid. If Nazr would have taken the same amount of money that Butler is getting, who would you want? Who was more productive when on the floor. Taking Butler just makes fiscal sense and he might play ok. But by no means are we better. So lets sop acting like it. We will just be different. Upside is just another word for potential. Who says he has potential. Isiah? Isiah love him. Isiah loved everybody last year and that is why they are so ed up now. He has no business being a GM.

"When on the floor" is where the wheels come off your argument. If Butler is in the game plan against the Mavericks AT ALL then he's an improvement, no matter what he's being paid. And since there was no ING way Nazr was going to take the same amount of money as Butler your argument loses the doors as well.

If Nazr would have taken the same amount as Butler, I'd still be going after Butler. Butler is young, athletic, has good hands, and hasn't been ed up by the Knicks yet. The Spurs have Isiah's nose in a vice and the only way for him to get out of it is to cut of his face. Upside is another word for a ten rebound a game type of guy. That's way more potential than you were going to get from Nazr at twice the price. Nazr, by the way, is about four times the price. How's it looking now?

Dumping salaries and having a chance to a.) improve at the position b.) get younger and c.) have guys that will actually be in the rotation in the playoffs is a win-win-win-win situation in my book.