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  1. #651
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    After years of decline, sales of recorded music are up for the first half of 2011, according to Nielsen SoundScan and Billboard's midyear music industry report....

    ....Several factors account for the turnaround, Donio says. He points to October's court-ordered shutdown of peer-to-peer file-sharing website LimeWire; more ways for consumers to buy music digitally and to become aware of new releases via social media

    http://www.usatoday.com/life/music/n...his-year_n.htm

  2. #652
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Shocking study:

    To Students, Music Piracy and Shoplifting Are Worlds Apart


    ScienceDaily (Apr. 13, 2011) — What's the difference between stealing a CD from a music store and ripping off music online? The music industry and law enforcers say that there is none: Theft is theft, whether it's physical or digital.......

    ....In the study by University of Nebraska-Lincoln researchers, nearly 200 undergraduates were asked to react to a hypothetical fellow student either shoplifting a CD or illegally downloading one.

    ......"We examined theoretical explanations for law-abiding behavior that have been traditionally used to account for compliance, and found weaker support for these explanations when it comes to digital piracy," said Twila Wingrove, the study's lead author. "The results suggest that students perceive shoplifting and digital piracy differently, despite the fact that they are both forms of theft."

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0413093211.htm

  3. #653
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    You're welcome.

  4. #654
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    IBM said the same thing

    Last edited by mouse; 03-15-2012 at 06:47 AM.

  5. #655
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    You're welcome.
    Rofl.

    I have found no research confirming anything one way or the other regarding piracy's effects on profits. Anyone that has attempted such research confirms there are way too many variables to conclude anything.

    I don't think Love was really on to something that the record companies hadn't already looked into. I do think that you are full of .

  6. #656
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    Here's another oldie:
    It has been pretended by some, (and in England especially,) that inventors have a natural and exclusive right to their inventions, and not merely for their own lives, but inheritable to their heirs.

    But while it is a moot question whether the origin of any kind of property is derived from nature at all, it would be singular to admit a natural and even an hereditary right to inventors.

    It is agreed by those who have seriously considered the subject, that no individual has, of natural right, a separate property in an acre of land, for instance.

    By an universal law, indeed, whatever, whether fixed or movable, belongs to all men equally and in common, is the property for the moment of him who occupies it; but when he relinquishes the occupation, the property goes with it.

    Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society.

    It would be curious then, if an idea, the fugitive fermentation of an individual brain, could, of natural right, be claimed in exclusive and stable property.

    If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of every one, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it.

    Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it.

    He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.

    That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density in any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation.

    Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property.

    Society may give an exclusive right to the profits arising from them, as an encouragement to men to pursue ideas which may produce utility, but this may or may not be done, according to the will and convenience of the society, without claim or complaint from any body.

    Accordingly, it is a fact, as far as I am informed, that England was, until we copied her, the only country on earth which ever, by a general law, gave a legal right to the exclusive use of an idea.

    In some other countries it is sometimes done, in a great case, and by a special and personal act, but, generally speaking, other nations have thought that these monopolies produce more embarrassment than advantage to society; and it may be observed that the nations which refuse monopolies of invention, are as fruitful as England in new and useful devices.
    http://odur.let.rug.nl/usa/P/tj3/wri...rf/jefl220.htm

  7. #657
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    It is also pretended by some that man has a natural and exclusive right to own property........especially if he is the first one to stick a flag in it and/or proclaim it as his.

  8. #658
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    It is also pretended by some that man has a natural and exclusive right to own property........especially if he is the first one to stick a flag in it and/or proclaim it as his.
    On that subject:

    Defining Property

    March 2012

    As a child I read a book of stories about a famous judge in eighteenth century Japan called Ooka Tadasuke. One of the cases he decided was brought by the owner of a food shop. A poor student who could afford only rice was eating his rice while enjoying the delicious cooking smells coming from the food shop. The owner wanted the student to pay for the smells he was enjoying. The student was stealing his smells!

    This story often comes to mind when I hear the RIAA and MPAA accusing people of stealing music and movies.

    It sounds ridiculous to us to treat smells as property. But I can imagine scenarios in which one could charge for smells. Imagine we were living on a moon base where we had to buy air by the liter. I could imagine air suppliers adding scents at an extra charge.

    The reason it seems ridiculous to us to treat smells as property is that it wouldn't work to. It would work on a moon base, though.

    What counts as property depends on what works to treat as property. And that not only can change, but has changed. Humans may always (for some definition of human and always) have treated small items carried on one's person as property. But hunter gatherers didn't treat land, for example, as property in the way we do.[1]

    The reason so many people think of property as having a single unchanging definition is that its definition changes very slowly. [2] But we are in the midst of such a change now. The record labels and movie studios used to distribute what they made like air shipped through tubes on a moon base. But with the arrival of networks, it's as if we've moved to a planet with a breathable atmosphere. Data moves like smells now. And through a combination of wishful thinking and short-term greed, the labels and studios have put themselves in the position of the food shop owner, accusing us all of stealing their smells.

    (The reason I say short-term greed is that the underlying problem with the labels and studios is that the people who run them are driven by bonuses rather than equity. If they were driven by equity they'd be looking for ways to take advantage of technological change instead of fighting it. But building new things takes too long. Their bonuses depend on this year's revenues, and the best way to increase those is to extract more money from stuff they do already.)

    So what does this mean? Should people not be able to charge for content? There's not a single yes or no answer to that question. People should be able to charge for content when it works to charge for content.

    But by "works" I mean something more subtle than "when they can get away with it." I mean when people can charge for content without warping society in order to do it. After all, the companies selling smells on the moon base could continue to sell them on the Earth, if they lobbied successfully for laws requiring us all to continue to breathe through tubes down here too, even though we no longer needed to.

    The crazy legal measures that the labels and studios have been taking have a lot of that flavor. Newspapers and magazines are just as screwed, but they are at least declining gracefully. The RIAA and MPAA would make us breathe through tubes if they could.

    Ultimately it comes down to common sense. When you're abusing the legal system by trying to use mass lawsuits against randomly chosen people as a form of exemplary punishment, or lobbying for laws that would break the Internet if they passed, that's ipso facto evidence you're using a definition of property that doesn't work.

    This is where it's helpful to have working democracies and multiple sovereign countries. If the world had a single, autocratic government, the labels and studios could buy laws making the definition of property be whatever they wanted. But fortunately there are still some countries that are not copyright colonies of the US, and even in the US, politicians still seem to be afraid of actual voters, in sufficient numbers. [3]

    The people running the US may not like it when voters or other countries refuse to bend to their will, but ultimately it's in all our interest that there's not a single point of attack for people trying to warp the law to serve their own purposes. Private property is an extremely useful idea—arguably one of our greatest inventions. So far, each new definition of it has brought us increasing material wealth. [4] It seems reasonable to suppose the newest one will too. It would be a disaster if we all had to keep running an obsolete version just because a few powerful people were too lazy to upgrade.


    Notes

    [1] If you want to learn more about hunter gatherers I strongly recommend Elizabeth Marshall Thomas's The Harmless People and The Old Way.

    [2] Change in the definition of property is driven mostly by technological progress, however, and since technological progress is accelerating, so presumably will the rate of change in the definition of property. Which means it's all the more important for societies to be able to respond gracefully to such changes, because they will come at an ever increasing rate.

    [3] As far as I know, the term "copyright colony" was first used by Myles Peterson.

    [4] The state of technology isn't simply a function of the definition of property. They each constrain the other. But that being so, you can't mess with the definition of property without affecting (and probably harming) the state of technology. The history of the USSR offers a vivid illustration of that.
    http://www.paulgraham.com/property.html

  9. #659
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Rofl.

    I have found no research confirming anything one way or the other regarding piracy's effects on profits. Anyone that has attempted such research confirms there are way too many variables to conclude anything.
    Business is lost to a plethora of factors, which might include piracy, but isn't necessarily the sole factor.
    Exactly what I said.

    I don't think Love was really on to something that the record companies hadn't already looked into. I do think that you are full of .
    Whatever. I think she's spot on that:

    A) people want their music whenever they want in the format they want (largely non-drm digital these days) and the music industry has been slow to get there.

    B) the industry does use funny math when quantifying alleged losses. This is something we already discussed in this thread and that we obviously have different opinions on.

  10. #660
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Exactly what I said.



    Whatever. I think she's spot on that:

    A) people want their music whenever they want in the format they want (largely non-drm digital these days) and the music industry has been slow to get there.

    B) the industry does use funny math when quantifying alleged losses. This is something we already discussed in this thread and that we obviously have different opinions on.
    Just the same, if a provider only offers a product in one form, does that give people the right to steal it since it isn't in the form they want? Or at a cost they think is reasonable?

  11. #661
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Just the same, if a provider only offers a product in one form, does that give people the right to steal it since it isn't in the form they want? Or at a cost they think is reasonable?
    Where did I say they have a "right" to pirate it? Quote?

  12. #662
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Where did I say they have a "right" to pirate it? Quote?
    I wasn't saying you did. If someone wants a digital transportable form, they can buy the CD and go from there. As long as they have a legal copy, nothing wrong with them moving the data for personal use.

  13. #663
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I wasn't saying you did. If someone wants a digital transportable form, they can buy the CD and go from there. As long as they have a legal copy, nothing wrong with them moving the data for personal use.
    That's provided the CD doesn't have DRM (some of which did between 2005-2007). Cir venting DRM controls is penalized under the DMCA. Every DVD or BluRay falls in that category.

    And ultimately the user might not want the entire CD, and might not buy it. That's a lost sale due strictly to the format.

  14. #664
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    lol comparing stealing music to incidental smells.


  15. #665
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    And ultimately the user might not want the entire CD, and might not buy it. That's a lost sale due strictly to the format.
    Agreed.

    There are still ways of making copies of the tracks, and the protection was because people were bootlegging them. It's an endless battle.

    Not wanting all the tracks is similar to why I never bough premium cable packages. I didn't want most the content. It wasn't a cost practical thing for me. I even dropped my cable TV completely and use an antenna.

    It's a choice. Their sales choice, and the consumers purchasing choice. Eventually, a good business listens to the consumer.

  16. #666
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Whatever. I think she's spot on that:

    A) people want their music whenever they want in the format they want (largely non-drm digital these days) and the music industry has been slow to get there.

    B) the industry does use funny math when quantifying alleged losses. This is something we already discussed in this thread and that we obviously have different opinions on.
    Are these really things she knew that the record companies didn't?

    Again, doubtful.

  17. #667
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Agreed.

    There are still ways of making copies of the tracks, and the protection was because people were bootlegging them. It's an endless battle.

    Not wanting all the tracks is similar to why I never bough premium cable packages. I didn't want most the content. It wasn't a cost practical thing for me. I even dropped my cable TV completely and use an antenna.

    It's a choice. Their sales choice, and the consumers purchasing choice. Eventually, a good business listens to the consumer.
    Bingo. That's what the whole adapting argument really rests.

  18. #668
    Veteran velik_m's Avatar
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    lol comparing stealing music to incidental smells.

    You haven't read it, have you?

  19. #669
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    You haven't read it, have you?
    Yes I did. The comparison made me laugh.

  20. #670
    One of the most best jag's Avatar
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    I agree with some of what Blake has said (at least the pages I read).

    At the risk of oversimplifying things, filesharing always comes down to a very basic question for me: How would I feel if my creative material were passed around for free without my consent?

    If companies are willing to adapt to new kinds of technology to make their products readily available through primary desired mediums, then I find it hard to agree with anyone advocating the sharing of copyrighted material.

  21. #671
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    Wild Cobra the pic in your Sig is not legit.

    You can tell by the mans shirt and where it lines up with his waistline those pictures were taken the same day.

    Also they show only the tops of the same tree in they're first two pics and then show more of the same tree in the following pics. look at the backgrounds.


  22. #672
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Wild Cobra the pic in your Sig is not legit.

    You can tell by the mans shirt and where it lines up with his waistline those pictures were taken the same day.

    Also they show only the tops of the same tree in they're first two pics and then show more of the same tree in the following pics. look at the backgrounds.

    WTF...

    This guy grew four trees in three par ions of a greenhouse and one outside it. He is showing the effects of increased CO2 levels on plant life. This is well known among those who profit from greenhouse grown goods. There is nothing fake about it.

    Yes, they were pictures taken the same day, but grown with four different CO2 levels.

    Check this out:

    Johnson CO2 Generator

  23. #673
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    I wish Blake and all his tree hugging supporter's

    Good Luck!




  24. #674
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    WTF...

    This guy grew four trees in three par ions of a greenhouse and one outside it. He is showing the effects of increased CO2 levels on plant life. This is well known among those who profit from greenhouse grown goods. There is nothing fake about it.

    Yes, they were pictures taken the same day, but grown with four different CO2 levels.

    Check this out:

    Johnson CO2 Generator
    Please don't make me install photo shop just to prove you wrong.......again!

  25. #675
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    mouse being an odd jpegging fool....

    Not the first time, no doubt not the last

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