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  1. #676
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Preposterous my ass. It's a do ented fact.
    Which claim??....

  2. #677
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    I'll quote something from a link for you...

    the Christian church which, when they rose to political power in the fourth century, the status of knowledge, science and secular learning started to decline. Church father Augustine early formulated the basic Church opinion when he said that there was no need for science when one had the holy gospels. With this moronic view Augustine lived as he learned: He was convinced among other things that the blood of a goat was the only thing capable of splitting diamonds, that the wind impregnated horses in Kappadokia (in Asia minor) etc. He didn’t on the other hand believe that the earth had spherical form, something that at his time had been known for centuries. Everything a man could possibly need of knowledge you could find in the Bible according to Augustine. And if something wasn’t in the Bible, it was bad and possibly harmful.

  3. #678
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    Preposterous my ass. It's a do ented fact.
    debatable

  4. #679
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Education
    Education was still considered important in the fourth and fifth century. This was mainly due to the strong earlier tradition for education in antiquity, and had nothing to do with the Church. The education gradually became more of reproducing and preservation of old knowledge than development and progress. In all areas the common familiarity with the earlier knowledge declined, and gradually got lost. The antiquity’s extensive education and diverse science gradually narrowed down to just become studies of the Biblical texts. Knowledge of Greek language, the very foundation and prerequisite for any science for centuries, became scarce. Soon only the clergy could read and write, many of those were not particularly skilled at it either.

    In the course of the first six centuries AD, the old public education and the sciences of antiquity were condemned and replaced by theology (except for astronomy which was needed to calculate the time for the different religious celebrations through the year). A science was now only considered useful if it could be used to support the preaching of the Church and the dogmas. Independent thinking more or less disappeared, knowledge diminished and reason was frowned upon. In the beginning of the 7.th century the public education was almost eradicated.

    For the early Christians in the first and second century, there were no real bans on learning the “pagan” knowledge of Antiquity, but it was a widespread notion that Christians should not be teaching this “pagan” knowledge. Therefore, Christianity didn’t have its own schools until the sixth century. Church fathers like f.ex. Origenes and Augustine themselves had the benefit of learning the “pagan” culture, philosophy and knowledge, like the works of Plato and Aristotle. Education and knowledge was at best considered as a necessary evil, and only if it could be used to support the theology.

  5. #680
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    GOD initially made earth to be a paradise for man... until Adam disobeyed and tarnished the plan.

    At that moment GOD set a plan in motion to rescue mankind... something (interestingly enough) which he didn't do for the angels when they rebelled against Him...
    got that.

    and if that is true, and we have the same free will in Heaven, then logic dictates that we will be able to sin in heaven.....
    or we no longer have free will

  6. #681
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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    quote with no link

  7. #682
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    Pious illiterates
    The Catholic schools were mainly pure theological/philosophical faculties, and their studies and knowledge of marginal or none importance for the society at large outside their walls. Antiquity’s rich amount of texts and widespread exchange of these, were no longer available to others than the clerical elite in the churches and monasteries. And the level of education was not particularly impressive; at the consile in Chalcedony in 451 AD all the forty bishops were illiterates. The popes in the following centuries literally boasted of their ignorance, they didn’t read or write Greek at all and their Latin were miserable. Several of the popes as late as the ninth-century couldn’t even read or write at all. The “wisdom” of the clergy, has mainly been due to the ignorance of the public.

  8. #683
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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  9. #684
    right about pizzagate Blake's Avatar
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  10. #685
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    The Vatican (equals not) Christianity...

  11. #686
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    biased source.

    great job.
    Any source that argues one point or the other is going to be biased. That doesn't make it any less true.

  12. #687
    License to Lillard tlongII's Avatar
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    The Vatican (equals not) Christianity...
    Without Christianity there would be no Vatican.

  13. #688
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    got that.

    and if that is true, and we have the same free will in Heaven, then logic dictates that we will be able to sin in heaven.....
    or we no longer have free will
    Even before 'the fall' Adam and Eve weren't impervious to sin... Yeah, they were sinless... but sin existed simply because Lucifer and his minions existed... and because GOD didn't restrict earth-access to them. It was the serpent (Lucifer) that introduced Adam and Eve to sin - to his miserable curse...

    I'm not entirely sure we will have the capability of sinning once "sin has been defeated once and for all"... Without such a powerful force in Heaven, who or what would be a driver for sin to ever resurface???

    That phrase could also imply that we will have no memory of sin altogether... Who knows - the Bible isn't explicitly detailed on the nature of our eternal activities (considering it would likely take an infinitely sized book to capture it all)....

    Maybe our glorified bodies will be incapable of 'tempting' and betraying our minds... We will not hunger because we will always feel satiated... we will not lust because we will feel the euphoria of sustaining an eternal "orgasm" or something even greater... We will not feel compeled to hoard treasures because everything and anything imaginable will be at our disposal in our Father's 'mansion'... We will not feel hatred, anger or sadness because we will constantly be overwhelmed with the Joy and the Peace of the LORD's presence. Although I admit, there's a great deal of speculation in what I just wrote... "Free-will," however, will likely not be my number one 'concern' while there...
    Last edited by Phenomanul; 05-04-2009 at 10:08 PM.

  14. #689
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Without Christianity there would be no Vatican.
    I believe lust for power was to blame for those policies... Not the Christian ideals which later heralded the scientific movement we know today, and the principles on which this nation was established.

  15. #690
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    lol adam and eve

    lol serpent

  16. #691
    God Talks To Me. angel_luv's Avatar
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    I'd like to take your thought process one step further.

    Pop draws up a perfect play from a luxury suite upstairs and sends it down to the bench.

    20 different assistant coaches draw up their versions of the play, and Tim and Tony get confused.

    They asked to see Pop, but are told that they just have to have faith that he is upstairs and the play he sent is perfect.

    Tony doesn't believe that there is a Pop, so when he dies, Pop is pissed........not that he didn't run the right play, but because Tony didn't believe in Pop and that Tim died for Tony's sins....

    so Pop sends Tony to for all eternity to be punished and tortured....

    "...and Pop saw all that he had created, looked at the 4 rings on his fingers and said, "damn, it is good"
    Your example does not follow the Scripture. God did not send 20 people down with His plan. God sent His One and Only Son Jesus, who clearly outlined the way for man to return to right standing with God.

  17. #692
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Risk and reward....
    You are aware that many other cultures say THEIR God is the only true God as well. When you add up all the different cultures, there's a greater risk you'll offend one of them than if you just don't pick any.

  18. #693
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    who are you in your finite mind to say what a BS question is and isn't?

    there are some philosophical hypotheticals that arise from certain tenets of the Christian faith.

    If you don't want to answer them, great, but I can show the Christian faith itself to be more BS than than the questions I and others are asking.
    Because my finite mind can understand that I shouldn't don't bother wasting my time trying to think what an infinite being, God, is thinking and what his motives or why is he thinking what he's thinking because my finite mind wouldn't be able to come to a conclusion on what an infinite beings motives are and asking questions regarding that topic is BS and a waste of time. It's like trying to explain the concept of infinity - you can't. Damn that was a phat ass run on.

    It's all pretty simple and you're just overcomplicating things to get a ruse out of people.

  19. #694
    It is what it is. I Love Me Some Me's Avatar
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    So do you think it's moral/acceptable to allow your child to be stoned to death?
    Of course not....but we are not living in Old Testament times. I do think my child should be subject to the laws of the land and to the consequences for breaking those laws.
    Last edited by I Love Me Some Me; 05-04-2009 at 09:53 PM.

  20. #695
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    You are aware that many other cultures say THEIR God is the only true God as well. When you add up all the different cultures, there's a greater risk you'll offend one of them than if you just don't pick any.
    Not from our perspective...

    What I meant to say in my response was that (I didn't make it clear enough)...

    Giving mankind free-will was a 'risk vs. reward' proposition from GOD's point of view.

    The Risk was that we wouldn't love Him...
    The Reward was that we would, out of our own volition...

  21. #696
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    Phenomanul is just trolling.

    Nobody could seriously believe the Christian Church didn't supress science and actually 'heralded' it's progress

    It's so ridiculous of a claim that it's not even worth acknowledging. It's like claiming that Germany won World War 2. It's a complete revision of history, a shameless one.

  22. #697
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    Of course not....but we are not living in Old Testament times.

    So you choose to ignore those laws because you don't live in those times?

    You don't live in New Testament times either. That was 2,000+ years ago.

    Yeah, you ignore the Old Testament and try to brush it off as 'old' because you know it's horrifying.

    If your God made those laws to begin with, then realized they were harsh and unjust and lunacy, so he had to 'change' his philosophy....

    then I guess he isn't really a God now is he.


    i am truly done arguing this way. I don't know if some of these 'christians' are just trolling or are just stupid.

    I usually just stick to the facts, of which Christians run away from.

  23. #698
    俺はまんこが大好きなんだよ baseline bum's Avatar
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    Because my finite mind can understand that I shouldn't don't bother wasting my time trying to think what an infinite being, God, is thinking and what his motives or why is he thinking what he's thinking because my finite mind wouldn't be able to come to a conclusion on what an infinite beings motives are and asking questions regarding that topic is BS and a waste of time. It's like trying to explain the concept of infinity - you can't. Damn that was a phat ass run on.

    It's all pretty simple and you're just overcomplicating things to get a ruse out of people.
    Quick question: what makes a god infinite? What does infinite mean in the context you're using it in?

  24. #699
    Maaaaaannnn fuck.... E20's Avatar
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    Quick question: what makes a god infinite? What does infinite mean in the context you're using it in?
    It's hard to explain. I remember my math professor saying we can't explain infinite, but we use it to explain if a series or limit approaches a certain value.

    The context I'm using it in is that God has always existed and will never cease to exist, his thought process and motives are way beyond the human scope of understanding, just like how infinity is. We wouldn't truly know his reasoning for doing such things, because we can never concieve an en y of infinite porportions.

    For example if he made Adam to enjoy life in paradise, but he knew beforehand that Adam would eat the apple, then why did he make Adam? It wouldn't make sense for it to do that, was it to put us through this test? Or was it trying to show his might? Who knows? I don't understand why god would purposely set up adam to fail; samething with Satan, if Satan was the holiest and most pious of all the en ies in God's court, why would God turn him into an outcast? Why did Satan deserve such a fate? If I knew those things or if anybody else did then they would know more than the biblical prophets that God supposdely sent and that would put them on par with God.

    Also I'd like to think of God as sort of similar to the fact that scientists say that the universe is 13 billion years old and according to the law of conservation of mass and energy the universe should have the same mass/matter and energy it has now compared to 13 billion years ago and should never change, so if we infer that mass/energy is constant and never truly changes then that means the universe is infinitley old and has always existed and will never cease to exist, because in one form or another the universe will be apparent in some form of matter or energy. [ long useless rant]
    Last edited by E20; 05-05-2009 at 02:23 AM.

  25. #700
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    E20,

    you are wasting your brain power trying to figure it out.

    It isn't real. It's a story, a fairy tale that copied/borrowed many things from other religions..... and was extremely successful in killing off all other religions in brutal campaigns to force everyone to believe in this particular fairy tale.

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